Warm, Round, Rich Sounding Sopranos....

[George]

I am going through another round of "find the right mouthpiece" for my Selmer SA80II soprano. If I end up deciding to buy another soprano I would be looking for something with a warm, round and rich tone - sort of the Branford Marsalis/Kirk Whalum character of sound.

Which modern sopranos would give me good tonal center to start with and good intonation?

[MBushaw]

I play an older YSS-62. Tried out a handful of mouthpieces including Barone, Selmer S-80, Vandoren, Lakey, Link, Runyon. The only one that didn't make the horn sound like a duck was a Selmer classical metal. I think the round chamber really helps me.

[Gandalfe]

I also like the Selmer Classic metal mouthpiece. The Selmer Super Session is also a very nice piece with nice intonation properties.

[Randall]

George,
Unless you are a soprano player full time, the response you get from the aforementioned horns may not satisfy you.
I am NOT a soprano player in any proper sense, but the only 3 sopranos I have had any luck getting the sound I like on are the Keilwerth SX90II in black, the curved Yanagisawa and the Yanagisawa straight in bronze.
I ended up going witht he JK because of the fat rich warm tone but the Yanagisawa bronze was a close second. Actually the Yani played far easier in the upper palm keys, which is usually the waterloo for most soprano "dablers/doublers" like myself.
As for Branford, he's playing a silver plated MK VI with a customized, slightly bent neck (not removable).
I have owned 3 MK VI sops over the years and they ALL were sold off. I NEVER got a sound I really liked on them.

[Dave Dolson]

George: I think any of the new big-four sopranos (and some of the lesser-known-but-better-quality Taiwanese sopranos) will work. The tonal qualities are formed by the player, for the most part, with some assistance from the mouthpiece set-up. I can play most any soprano and sound like me (and I own six - three vintage and three new, and have owned a whole bunch over my playing history). DAVE

[colibri]

In my opinion the Keilwerth out of the big four plays the sweetest. But the palm keys aren't as easy to play as others.

[saxboy]

The Yamaha 62R is the axe. The Yamaha 475 and the Yani's are the names to contend with. The Cannonball curved was the latest new and interesting...
SAXBOY

[Bootman]

Vintage Conn's and Martins are the bigest and warmest of Sopranos, no modern horn comes close in terms of richness and power.

[max]

I agree - I went the vintage soprano route to get the warmth (Buescher for me).

I'll also second (or third) the vote for the Selmer classic metal mouthpiece - using it on my Ser III got me the closest I could get to the sound I wanted (which is in the Branford spectrum).

It's not a great match for my Buescher, though. (I'm sure the post about it has been pruned from the Marketplace thread by now, but it's for sale/trade... e-mail me if you're interested: max987456@yahoo.com)

[singlereed]

I also love the Selmer Metal Classic and used it with much success on a Serie II and more recently a Yani S992 which is a warm, powerful sounding soprano and gets my vote if you want to go 'modern' rather than vintage.

[Razzy]

Anyone ever heard of Jean Yves-Fourmeau? A classical french soprano player, granted, but his sound is so rich and warm, so much more than any other soprano player I've heard (his upper register is incredibly full and NOT annoyingly bright!), that I just had to ask him what his setup is.

In a personal email from the man himself:

"I play Yamaha custom, Selmer C*, and vandoren blue #3 reed."

I think that says it all: the warmth and richness comes from the player.

[Bootman]

Not quite all the warmth comes from the player, a modern horn will sound thinner than a vintage horn, even if it is the same player, mpc and reed. The biggest sound with warmth, altissimo, power and volume is a Conn Curved sop 1921 vintage in silver plate with a Lawton 7*b mpc and RJS 2H or 3S reed.

[Balladeer]

Bootman: For warmth, fullness, and power I vote for my 1927 Conn 'Chu' Standard Wonder straight soprano (silver w/gold wash bell) and a Tenney HR Link. With the straight soprano, I can always aim it right at you to obtain maximum "stun" power! :D

[SaxyAcoustician]

Then I suppose we should all be playing that horn and setup? :?

[Dave Dolson]

I respectfully disagree - and remind other posters that the original question concerned modern sopranos, not a debate about vintage vs. new.

We all have our predjudices when it comes to brands, age, set-ups, etc. But I'll put my new Yanas up against any of the vintage sops I've owned/played, for warmth, tonal center, and all of the other factors used to assess saxophones.

My old silver Buescher TT is a marvelous straight soprano, yet my new Yanas are its equal. That I usually play the TT is not so much a comment about it's playability as much as it is its propriety for my music.

While it is merely my experience, I hear the same overall sound from my vintage sopranos as I do my Yanas. Are there subtle differences? Of course . . . but not enough to claim that a vintage soprano sounds THAT much better (or THAT much worse) than does a new soprano. I seriously doubt if the listening audience knows OR cares that the horn I played Sunday was a Conn, a Buescher, or a Yanagisawa. Thus, much of my sound comes from ME, not my horns or equipment. And I think that is true for most experienced soprano players who have developed their own sound and style. I'd wager that ol' Sidney would pick up any of our sopranos AND set-ups and sound like Sidney, not us.

I will admit that some new sopranos did not trip my trigger, but there are some good ones among the top-four; and for George's original question, I believe that he will find what he is looking for among those brands. DAVE

[George]

I tried the BN SX90II and ended up returning it. I loved the sound but was having intonation problems using my current mpc (Otto Link Tone Master (not STM) 8* with RJS 4M filed reeds). It sounded great solo, but I was having trouble playing with my band. It could have been the wider bore combined with my open facing mouthpiece.

On the SA80II the link works well, but it took a lot of figuring to get the sound I was looking for on that saxophone - the large tip openings tamed the high end. Perhaps if I had opther mouthpieces to try with the JK I would have kept it.

In any case, I have a Yana S992 on its way to try out. I had tried an older model curved yanagasawa a few years back and loved the sound. I would definitely try the Sterling Yana sopranos but I can get a new soprano plus put some money towards a new alto for the same amount of money.

I have some mouthpieces coming as well:

Super Session J
Pomarico Wood 7J
SR Legend in metal
Lawton 7B

I'm figure I'll also try the Selmer metal classical pieces as well.

[Razzy]

And just to elaborate, the sound coming from the player and being evident in various setups is quite an obvious conclusion to arrive at when one puts it in more cohesive wording: you play all of those horns and setups in almost exactly the same way, so they will sound pretty similar! Unless you are making sharp adjustments to your basic technique, oral cavity, breath support, and the like, you will have almos the same exact sound on all horns you play. Take this a step further: the MORE characterized, defined, and dominant your physical playing methods are, the less variance you will notice between different horns and setups, such that you remain the same person! I sound a bit thin on most any setup that I play, because I have about six months (not very dutiful) experience with the soprano sax; I'm nowhere near where I want to be with it yet so it's only natural. The same was true when I started studying the alto and all of my instruments seriously about a year ago.

[Bootman]

Sound comes primarily from the player but the horn causes an effect as well. It depends on how you hear soemthing. Many times we have heard the debate between straight and vintage sounding the same, others say that they don't, but I have found that they do. The differences may be subtle but they are there.

George,
I have never played a straight sop where a lawtons works particularly well upon. My preference for modern Soprano's is the CB Saxello model or similar, the sound is brighter than a vintage horn but it is still sweet. In the end youhave to play several instruments and then reach a decision, you can always go back and try something different later on. Listen to hat those around you say, record yourself and listen back to it with fresh ears.

[MarkD]

... sort of the Branford Marsalis/Kirk Whalum character of sound...

What is Branford Marsalis playing for soprano these days anyway? I saw him last November and it sure looked like he was playing a Selmer with a Guardala mouthpiece. Yet, for a while I know he was playing a Keilwerth.

For me, the timbre of the sound on soprano (Black lacquer Selmer Serie III) is greatly (and I really mean greatly) influenced by the reed. I find that a VanDoren traditional or a Rico gives a warm tone with a metal Otto Link mouthpiece and a Rovner 1-MVS (Dark) ligature. Switch to a Java reed and it sounds as bright as the dawn of a new day. :!:

[max]

I agree 100% that your sound comes from the player and not the equipment - a fundamental change in sound has to come from the player.

I sound like me no matter what horn I play. HOWEVER, different saxophones CAN influence the sound - some more than others, and maybe some not much at all. But the potential is there; there's no getting around it.

It's like putting on different clothes - you still look like yourself, but you also look different. You may even carry yourself a little differently.

My sound concept is "characterized, defined, and dominant," but there was no mistaking the difference between my Ser III and my vintage Buescher. Even my sister-in-law could hear it on a blind test.

Yes, it can be a subtle change, but also significant - sounds contradictory, but it's very much been my experience that it's true.

For me -- with both my tenor and soprano -- switching to vintage horns got me that last little fraction of my sound concept that I wasn't getting with my modern horns. They didn't fundamentally change my sounds, but they did put the finishing touches on them.

(and to get back on topic - my III with a Selmer metal mouthpiece -- along with a lot of the personal "internal" work -- got me 98.72% to the sound I wanted...)

[saxmanpete]

the old rubber Soloist is the warmest sound..If you can find an F or even G...I play a G...Yamaha 62R or a 5 digit VI are IMHO...the best...Curved...Buescher silver plate,over 220K...if you can find one...My friewnd in the Letterman Band has mine...saxmanpete

[George]

Although I agree about players each having their own sound, there was no denying that a serious change in tone was achieved when I tried the JK SX90II as compared to my Selmer SA80II. I have spoken to many saxophone shops including USA horn and some very reputable people feel the SA80II isn't the warmest richest sounding soprano.

The JK was a much more free blowing soprano than my current selmer, and I was able to relax my embouchure more in the upper register - although I will not deny that doing so is a player-induced variable, the ability to do it easily perhaps made me change my sound for the better.

So maybe my question should be which soprano is both free blowing and rich sounding?

[saxboy]

It's like putting on different clothes - you still look like yourself, but you also look different. You may even carry yourself a little differently.
That is so simple but says it so well. Thanks Max.

Dave Dolson wrote I respectfully disagree - and remind other posters that the original question concerned modern sopranos, not a debate about vintage vs. new.

Thanks Dave for helping stay on topic.

I am not a Vintage guy. I had a Grandfather that played all these Vintage horns when they where new. I think my Grandfather would still be playing the best sounding, playing, feeling, and intonated sax available. If he were alive today he would either be playing the same axe he bought in 1942 because it was a part of him by now, or would be playing a new Sop from the big 4 makers.

If Mozart were alive he would be using MIDI and synths along with more traditional instruments. I think Turtles love Snails for dinner because they are slower than a Turtle. I wonder if a Turtle might love BBQ’ed Rabbit? Problem is Rabbit is not available to the Turtle.

Some guys will play that old sax forever because they have grown to be one with it. For me, I started Soprano very late in the game, although it was my first sax from my Grad Dad - I moved to Alto before I ever got out of Rubank 1.

It is not always cool to go against the Traditions of our Hero’s, but when it comes to what sax I play, I am totally there. I play my Saxes for good reasons and have spent 35 years defining those reasons thru improvement and experimentation. They are mine, for me, to me, but only become issues when some old-a** sax is said to be the only thing anyone should be playing.

If it works for you - great. If it sucks for me - then great too. But sax players selling what there teachers and old hero’s bias was, way into another Century; that kinda sucks.

SAXBOY

My History - Main Saxes owned and the primary direction that lead to all Modern Yamaha Saxes for me - my story - is at
www.gregvail.com/sys-tmpl/yamaha/ with no images for fast load.
www.gregvail.com/sys-tmpl/yamahawork/ with pictures.

We can all learn from our differences. We can steal from others experiences too.
We all enter this world as originals, but most of us leave carbon copies.

[Dave Dolson]

George: Your latest question about which soprano is free-blowing and rich sounding begs the same response from me. I think all of the top four CAN be that for you.

True, not all of the new ones play well - some are better than others. But each of the top four can issue a saxophone that will meet your needs.

I've owned a silver Serie III and it was a wonderful soprano - it was just that my Yana S992 was even better. That doesn't mean that all Yanas are better than all Selmers (substitute JK or Yamaha in that phrase, in any order). It just means that I am very pleased with my S992 (and my curved Yanas).

If I had to make a choice between new and vintage, I'd go vintage, but that's another story, and not the subject of this topic.

The bottom line is that you must go forth and seek. . . . and good luck in that pursuit.

DAVE

[BobD]

If it works for you - great. If it sucks for me - then great too. But sax players selling what there teachers and old hero’s bias was, way into another Century; that kinda sucks

That's a good statement because many players will really push that this horn or that horn is "THE ONLY" horn worth playing. And Dave makes an equally good point in that any horn can be a great horn.

[Corky Jordan]

Just found you guys on the web and to my amazement there are more saxaphone enthusiasts out there like myself, But I am JEALOUS you guys have all these 3 to 5000 dollar horns I am blown away ! Im a poor Oklahoma boy whose 45 yrs old now and have been tearin up cheap sopranos for years I always use a good mouthpiece though... I have to agree with Dave the sound,richness and the all important Intonation at least from my point of view comes from the player granted when your playin an ole beat up student horn with rubberbands around the G# and WD40 on the rods prayin one of those keys dont stick when you go to grab the crowd pleaser sure makes it rough sometimes and I have the teeth marks on my mouthpiece to prove it. I would do bout anything to own a pro line horn but well guess the rent comes first....But then as I review this post how the heck would I know I've never owned a horn better than a Bundy "HaH".....PS: Made my first Dollar tonight sittin In the park just blowin and dude hands me a greenback what a trip nailed it to the wall, guess I'll get a frame.

[averageschmoe]

"I am JEALOUS you guys have all these 3 to 5000 dollar horns I am blown away !"

when it's all you do you have to have at least one thouroughbred in the stable... of course you have to forgoe certain other luxuries: food, reliable transportation (my soprano mpc's alone are worth more than my car, and i'm a tenor player primarily), housing, and forget the opposite sex... i wonder how impacted the international business department is...

[Tears June]

Series II is OK. Before you buy a new horn, trty to find an enconomic solution (a good soprano is never cheap).

Try Lawton P Chamber 7 or 7* + Java 2.5 or 3 reed. With this combination, you should able to get a very warm, slight dark , very rich & thick sound. It will still has enough brilliance tone. Don't use Hemke reed, which is too dull through the Lawton P Chamber.

:cry:

[Corky Jordan]

Anybody ever break down there horn ? Im not afraid of the larger horn's but Ive never taken a soprano apart, are they difficult ? Are there tear down chart's available ?

[George]

I finally got my s992 to try along with a few mouthpieces. By far the sound I was after was achieved with the S992, Polycarbonate SR Legend, Plasticover 4 and Eddie Daniels Ligature.

After playing for a while today I was amazed that I was producing this kind of tone - deep, rich, and with a slight buzz - but never overly bright.

Thanks to all that have helped.

[singlereed]

Glad you like it. Definitely my horn of choice amongst modern production. Only teensy-weensy downside is that front F has always been a bit difficult on my horn (only that note) and we never have been able to get to the bottom of it. I play that note easily on other sopranos including my teacher's S991 with my mouthpiece(s) and other people play it fine on my horn with their mouthpiece(s). Its getting easier with familairity but still not as reliable as I would like it.