Big Band Sax Section Frustration!

[TMadness1013]

Hey all,

Currently I'm playing 2nd tenor in a big-band. I'm about to go out of my mind because every player in my section plays extremely weakly in terms of dynamic contast. Their FFF's are MF's, at best. And to make things worse, our lead alto player really struggles playing at a soft dynamic - he chooses not to subtone when it is appropriate to do so.

I have a feeling their setups are a great reason they are struggling so much (alto 2 and bari are actually playing on classical pieces - lead alto playing a STM link and tenor 1 is playing a mellow berg) but it's frustrating because when I have a line at FF - I try to balance myself with the rest of the band, and do a great job. However, the rest of the section gets buried because they can't play at a reasonable volume.


I'm of the opinion that a saxophone section does not need to have microphones in every bell to balance with the rest of the band. Our director thinks differently...


Anyone else have a similar experience?

Not really looking for any advice here - there's not much that can be done (except for I could always play my Rascher setup & blend in perfectly w/ my section!) - just curious to see if this is a common phenomena...


The interesting thing of it is, my mouthpiece isn't even bright. It's a dark piece - it just projects like a jazz piece should.

[Brendan Muse]

Well, I'll just throw out that strictly classical players are unsuited to jazz band, and alto players make horrible bari players -- until they get used to it! Give them two or three months.

I've always been in pretty decent sax sections, though.

[CMelodyMan]

Anyone else have a similar experience?




Yes, it was like that in my honor jazz band last year. The other tenor, and the all of the altos, were playing on classical mpcs! And they had pathetically weak sounds(I could barely stand it!)

[saxobari]

I can understand your frustration!
In our band ,well at least more then half the band dont read the dinamics,or even worst ,lots of notes are not read or just ignored! As for volume,,very loud or louder! It is too bad,cause I know that the band or the section can do it,,but will respect the notes and dinamics for one tune or two then they go back to who is going to be the loudest! So ,so much for good section playing! I play baritone and soprano in that band,well trying to play a solo at times is very difficult when the band is overblowing the solist! We have to tell them or remind them to stay under the solist,but I think that it is a waste of time! I will agree that the solist has to be mike in specialy my situation! The section itself I do agree with you they don't need that!Though playing through a good system when soloing is very nice!For the saxes,most of the section are weak players,exept for the first tenor which is exteremely good solist!They all have good horns and mouthpieces but just don't practice or play there horns when they are home!The main thing now I just play my parts and forget about what I hear,and just relaxe and have fun!After all the band has been together for 6 years,which is great for just a hobby!Usualy those things just crash along the way!So i consider myself to play baritone as my main instrument but also have the chance to play all the saxes in that band when needed!Regards Mario

[Tharruff]

I played in a Big Band for 26 years. I mostly played either the second Alto or second Tenor books. One in awhile we would get a substitute lead guy who would get on a volume kick and he would be trying to 'shoosh' us all night long. We didn't use mikes in the Sax section except for solos.

My concept of proper volume for an unmiked Sax section came from the several times that I was able to step off of the bandstand and go to the back of the room and really listen to the band. The trumpets and trombones bells point right straight AT YOU...but the Sax bells point up towards the ceiling. I ALWAYS noticed that the brass parts could be heard much more clearly than the Sax parts.

Most of the time, the sections that I played in, we played LOUD...but I think that it was the appropriate volume to balance the brass. It's all a matter of balance and listening and the style of the song you are playing.

[goodsax]

I agree with tharruff in that the most common problem I've experienced in two big bands is the trumpets burying the sax section because they're the ones who know only FFF and pay no attention to dynamics. Neither of the bands I'm playing in now use microphones except for soloists.

[gary]

I see this a little differently. IMO the role of a sax section is not to compete with the brass but to add body to the overall sound. Competing with them is not only an accoustic but a musical mistake...IMHO.

Regarding the direction of the instrument bells, I don't believe the sax is a unidirectional instrument. And the only time the sound comes directly out of the bell is when playing the lowest notes; so I would think that the sax bell pointing up is not a factor in how the sax is heard.

[goodsax]

gary: You're right about competition, but I prefer to think of it as the brass competing with the sax section, especially in groups made up of community volunteers, i.e., non-professionals. I agree that a blend of voices is best, but one can only dream at times when others won't listen to the whole.

[ralph lh]

Been there, heard that!

I've played in one band in particular where the concept of dynamics was completely lost on the brass. I agree with the previous comments that it should not be the fuction of the reeds to compete. Rather we should complement the other sections but that needs to be reciprocated.

I've played lead alto and bari in the above noted type of band and currently play bari in another very good band. While the bari has quite a bit of ooomph I find that I don't need to play out 'cause the other sections are paying attention to the dynamics. I might add - the band leader [on lead alto] is also VERY particular about dynamics during rehearsals so I think that carries through to the gigs.

Bottom line for me, if I'm in a band that blasts, I'm not going to play that game next time. I'll play within the music and bring my ear plugs too.
Ralph

[Merlin]

I count myself as lucky every time I sit down to play with the band I work with most. It's probably one of the quietest bands I've ever played with. We play 90% of our gigs completely acoustic, the others usually just with solo and piano micing.