Mouthpiece Patches

[Rick]

Does anyone use Mouthpiece patches? What size patchs are good to use? And what are the advantages and disadvantages of using them? Sorry if this topic dosent belong here but it seemed the most logical place to post.

Rick

[bohosheets]

I use the thin clear style on both alto and tenor. I used to use the thick black style. They help keep the piece from getting tooth mark grooves. They also cut down on excessive vibrations to your skull (if that bothers you), although some would consider that to be a disadvantage. I also like the clear thin especially becuase they help anchor my upper teeth and keep the piece from sliding around too much.

[DirkW]

I used the soft, black rubbery patches for several years, but they keep wearing out. After replacing a few patches, I've gone to the harder clear type. Why damage an expensive mouthpiece with teeth marks when you can protect it with an inexpensive patch?

[Saxmania]

When I first started playing I used them to have something to get a grip on. The mouthpiece moved around in my mouth. I still use them, saves wear and tear on the MP and I kinda got use to playing with one. I use the clear ones, didn't like the thicker black ones.

[ToreH]

If the black ones wear out, put a thin clear one on top.

[Tsax]

I prefer the clear ones as well, but the softer, thicker ones (VanDoren).
:!: Yeah, everything matters when you'r playing saxophone...
The VanDoren-type is softer than most clear patches and doesnt wear as easily as the black type.

[Konrad]

I use the clear ones, but a lot of times they come unglued. I don't know why. Maybe I have something in my spit.

[Tsax]

Konrad - I had the same experience with the clear patches of a different brand, Köbl. Maybe you are using this brand (it is made in Germany and widely available in Europe)?
Your problem might be solved by using the VanDoren patches instead (and clean the surface on your mouthpiece in advance, but you probably already did that).

[Ritchie]

I'm using thick black patches on all my mouthpieces. I don't like the sticky feel of the clear ones. I like the fact there is less direct transmission of vibration from the mouthpiece to the ear via the skull. This way I hear more of the sound of the instrument.

[retread]

I use clear on HR pieces because they make the piece less slippery. I usea thick on the one metal piece I have--a Berg--becuase the beak feels too small without it.

[Anonymous]

I use the clear 3M patches (sold under the Runyon and Selmer names) on all my mpcs.

[Subtone Sam]

BG France clear patches are good,not too thick and they last long time.

[tonal ambition]

So where can these guards be purchased?

[Rick]

Music123.com has some patches from BG. They cost about $6-7 for 6 patches. But you'll have to pay for shipping as well. You can also try you local music store, just ask.

[sadsax]

I too, use the clear patches. I use two at a time, one on top of another. I like the cushion feel to it.

[RS]

I played for years without a patch. Then when I started using one I couldn't believe I went all those years with my reeth resting on a rock-hard surface.

[Toni Linder]

I use the clear Yamaha patches. Unfortunately, they do not last very long, at least not with me sharp teeth!

:?: Does anybody know of a self-adhesive plastic sheet you could buy to do them yourself, probably at a tenth of the price you pay in music shops?

[Roger Aldridge]

There's something very important to think about that hasn't been mentioned yet.

The beak of a mouthpiece needs to vibrate as freely as possible. This is especially true of a Ralph Morgan mouthpiece. Ralph has described to me the great care and precision that goes into the design of his mouthpieces -- including the beaks. I remember one conversation where he talked about the beak of his clarinet mouthpieces. There are, I think he said, around 20+ points (just in the beak) where the measurements have to be just right in order for the mouthpiece to play at its optimal level. If a thick black patch is used on one of these mouthpieces it dampens the sound and response to a noticable degree. I've experimented with this and found that there is a BIG difference in sound between using a thick patch and not using one on a Morgan mouthpiece. My mind was completely blown when I did this trial on a Morgan L alto mouthpiece. Big difference -- not just in my sound but also in the horn's response. I wouldn't have believed that just a patch would have made such a difference. But, it did.

Frankly I'm not sure how important this is with other mouthpieces. But, it makes sense to me to experiment with whatever mouthpiece you're using to see if there is a difference in the sound in using or not using a patch. One of the best ways to check this out is to RECORD your playing and see if you can hear a difference in the playback. If you don't hear a difference in your sound and if the comfort of a thick patch is important to you then it's probably okay to use a patch. It's your choice.

To my ears, there is not as much difference in my sound with a thin clear patch. In particular, when I cut the clear patch so that only the necessary amount is used.

My ideal choice would be not to use a patch. But, I have one front tooth that is sharper than the others and it will do a serious scratch job on a mouthpiece in no time. For this reason I use a clear patch. It's the best compromise that I've come up with so far.

[Ritchie]

In particular for a metal mouthpiece, the relative mass added by the patch is not much. I see your point, Roger, valid for mouthpieces with a very thin beak. Also be careful not to mistake the effect of the more open throat when using a patch for an effect by sticking something on the beak. Recording yourself will of course speak the final word.

[Toni Linder]

[quote="Roger Aldridge"] I've experimented with this and found that there is a BIG difference in sound between using a thick patch and not using one on a Morgan mouthpiece. My mind was completely blown when I did this trial on a Morgan L alto mouthpiece. Big difference -- not just in my sound but also in the horn's response. I wouldn't have believed that just a patch would have made such a difference. But, it did.

Did it make a big difference in YOUR ears while playing - or to others, too? I notice big differences in sound playing different reeds, ligatures or mouthpieces that other persons have troubles hearing. And I have somewhat the same problem when I hear the different setups recorded on tape!

[Roger Aldridge]

Toni,

The answer to your question in THIS particular case is both.

The point raised about what we hear in playing versus what others hear is definitely a good one. There have been times when I've tried certain changes in my set up and I clearly heard differences in my sound but others didn't. Thus, either the tonal changes were too subtle or they were just something that came through my ears. HOWEVER, there have also been times when I could heard a change in my sound and others could as well...and commented on it. So, this is something that can cut both ways.

Personally, the approach that works for me is not to be concerned whether others hear a difference in my sound or not. I mean, I listen to my recorded sound closely and strive to get the sound that I want out into the room. But, as a player, the sound that I hear in my own ears is the sound that I focus on. Thus, if I make a refinement to my set up and hear a difference that I really like I go with it -- even if others don't hear it.

[Lenny]

It seems to me that the patches open my mouth more and seem to give a deeper more open sound which could be good or bad depending on what you like. For me it helps with the low notes. I have an overbite though maybe that's relevant?

[baribri]

Hi,
first let me throw my two cents in. Some of us just feel more comfortable getting a better grip without slipping and for that I have found over the years that a nice thin clear patch such as the Vandorens are great but pricey. Before addressing the cure for that I would just like to say that given the collective items that actually account for your own personal sound and the vibration of the reed and mouthpiece in your mouth (oral cavity) that the addtion of a patch when heard from the business end of the sax makes hardly an iota of difference in the actual sound coming from the horn. It may be percieved as a tad muffled by the player because of the very slight (with a clear thin patch) cushion (more with the thick rubberized patch) because of the lessoned teeth to mouthpiece carrying of sound to the inner ear but it is really almost totally unaffected at the bell where the sound comes out. So if you are more comfortable with the patch then by all means use it.
Now how to save a bundle on buying them.
Go to your local motorcycle shop. Ask for a package of the clear windshield stick on film (this is the stuff used for motorcycle windshields to make and stick on racing numbers. Comes in colors, paper backed, same as the patches, most of it made by 3M but for around $12.00 you get about 4 sheets of it that are around 18" by 24" which is easily cut into pieces as you need them and one purchase will more than likely last you a few lifetimes.. Oh.. they also come in colors other than clear for those of you that like that kind of thing..

[Razzy]

The thick black ones. I've done sound tests with thick black vs. clear vs. no patch and heard no difference on a recording. Also other musicians listening heard no difference. And I myself really noticed nothing other than the weird feel of the other two as compared to the nice n' comfy thick black rubber one :) So I stick with those.

I think the brand is something like mouthpiece magic or something. They're ovular, I cut them in half and place them about an inch up from the tip of the beak on tenor (3/4" on alto, 1/2" on sop. I use Meyer 5, 6, and Selmer E respectively on those horns as well). This seems to be the spot for optimal tooth placement, really opens up the oral cavity, and I guess IF the rubber patch deadened the sound at all, this would lessen that effect to some degree.

[kornflakes]

:wink: