vibrato: pitch vs volume

[Lenny]

Just noticed that Dave Leibman says that you should try to make your vibrato more of a variation of volume rather than pitch.

He associates the jaw vibrato with pitch movement and also associates it with older dance band styles (particularely Guy Lombardo).

He suggestes using other parts of the tongue and the lips to get a subtler more volume oriented vibrato.

What do you guys think about this?
And can you think of examples that illustrate these different kinds of vibrato.
There have been many discussions here about diaphragm vibrato vs jaw but This was a new thought to me.
I've been trying to develop a decent vibrato for a while now and its just starting to get there.

[Anonymous]

That explains why his sax sounds more like a Lowrey Organ than a saxophone.

I'm joking of course, but, the vibrato is simply an imitation of a universally used vocal effect and simply altering the volume is a TREMELO not a vibrato at all. Now if you're lookin' to emulate that fabulous Venture guitar sound on sax, Leibman is spot-on. If not, it is hogwash---pure and simple!

[shortwhite]

Mr. Fudd is exactly right.

Technically speaking, changing the pitch is vibrato. That's why unison passages on sax are generally played with no vibrato. If all are changing the pitch and it isn't done exactly together it just sounds out of tune. A flute section on the other hand will play a unison passage with vibrato because most flute players generally use a diaprahgm vibrato which is actually a change in amplitude (volume).

Ever hear Aaron Neville sing? I love Aaron and the Neville Brothers. Aaron has a unique vocal sound. One of the reasons is that, unlike most vocalists, he uses a diaphragm vibrato He is changing volume, not pitch.

[Paul Coats]

Variation in air, "diaphragm vibrato", etc is TREMOLO. Variation in pitch is vibrato. With the saxophone, using jaw vibrato, there is also a subtle timbre change in conjunction with the pitch change.

The jaw vibrato is the standard, most commonly taught and performed method of producing the characteristic saxophone vibrato.

If learned as in my article, which is the same way it is taught in universities (I did not invent this), and as described in Larry Teal's The Art Of Saxophone Playing, Fred Hemke's Teacher's Guide To the Saxophone, etc, the student will learn to control depth and speed of the vibrato so that he can play any style, jazz, classical, Guy Lombardo, etc.

[alsdiego]

Paul C.,

So if my vibrato is a tad too "Nanny goatish" (vibrato is too deep, particularly on high notes), I should work on decreasing the jaw motion, while still using basic "jaw vibrato" as discussed in your article?

[shortwhite]

Al,

This isn't Paul C. but;

Generally as you play higher, vibrato gets faster and narrower (not as much depth). A wide fast vibrtao gives you Guy Lombardo. So the answer to your question is yes.

[Paul Coats]

Al, yes. Also, many players, upon hearing a recording of themselves, are using a faster vibrato than what they think they use. Record yourself, and self critique! Further, from shortwhite's statement, for solo vibrato, generally altos and sopranos will use faster vibrato than tenors and baritones. Do not be afraid to vary the speed and intensity of vibrato to enhance the music, that is what it is for.

[hornstar]

the classic use of vibrato is for it to come in smoothly near the end of a longer tone. slower vibrato with a smooth curve is classy. listen to the great singers, like Dinah Washington.
like all kinesthetics, you want to train muscle memory to be able to play something at will, without having to consciously think about it. the danger is that it will become a characteristic or even bad habit. vibrato is one of the more difficult things for a student to learn. then, once they get it, it is often overused! vibrato should be one of the many techniques in your arsenal, and you want to be conscious in control of it. it's a great way to learn and enhance embouchure control. practice changing things like the speed and depth of the pitch change; then practice those in conjunction with other things like volume and tone.