Low notes... please help

[WindMusician81]

I've got a gig coming up this weekend, and just got the music I'm supposed to be playing. (don't we all hate last minute stuff?). Anyway, my problem is with low notes, C#, C, B and B flat (is there an ansi symbol I could use?). I can only get these notes after my sax (some Yamaha student model) will even think about playing them. Then I usually have to loosen my embrucher to the point that other notes don't play well, or are extremely out of tune. C# and C I can usually manage, but the tone isn't as nice as I'd like it. I know it's at least partly the sax, since I rented a nice Selmer for a couple months for fun and could hit every note clearly, but I refuse to believe that anyone should blame their tools 100%. There must be something I can do to help the note sound clear and confident, and without unwanted vibrato. I'd even be happy for one of the three.

Any suggestions on what I can do to clean these notes up? or should I take this as an excuse to go shopping?

Thanks.

[Big Jim]

Well, I am not an expert, but I have the same problem. I practice a small warm up piece. Then I practice the low notes. Seems like c# is the killer for me. But, I just play C then C# B, Bb. Single notes at a time. Then I apply them to scales, the to a song. I work on this about an hour every day. After about an hour then they come naturally. (well sorta). Hope this helps. I know it works for me. Have a good day. Jim

[Ritchie]

Have your horns checked for leaks!

Of course the better the player the better he/she can play even on a leaky horn, and there is no such thing as a completely leak-free horn, but if the leaks are too bad, this can make playing really hard work, if not impossible.

[gary]

Windy...you don't even know enough about your horn to know what model it is? Sounds like your instrument awareness is, er...a little lackadaisacle.

If the following is true: I rented a nice Selmer for a couple months for fun and could hit every note clearly and you're having trouble with your present horn, then I think at least the first thing to do would be to have your horn checked out thoroughly.

By the way "...or should I take this as an excuse to go shopping?"
Do you buy a new car every time yours runs out of gas?

[Mike Ruhl]

gary - no cause to be insulting, especially if you can't spell...

WindMusician81, working on long tones will improve your air support for the low notes, and will strengthen your embouchure. It probably won't help you for this immediate gig, but in the long run you'll benefit.

[Big Jim]

You go Meruhl. No need to insult anyone who has a valid question. Glad you replied that way. Regards,
Jim :D

[WindMusician81]

Windy...you don't even know enough about your horn to know what model it is? Sounds like your instrument awareness is, er...a little lackadaisacle.
I received the sax as a graduation gift, and have yet to find a model number on it.


By the way "...or should I take this as an excuse to go shopping?"
Do you buy a new car every time yours runs out of gas?

Of coures I wouldn't replace a car because it runs out of gas, but when it's a few years old, has a few dings and scratches, several thousand miles, and the motor needs a serious overhaul, I would concider buying a new one instead of fixing the old.

The next time I go in to Montreal, I'll have my sax checked out, and try spending more time working on longtones on the problem notes.

As for this weekend, I guess I'll just have to have the sax good and warm, and hope for the best. Until now, I've been able to to skip the problem notes, and let a Baritone cover for me, unfortionatly I don't have that luxury playing a duet with an organ at church.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Riff]

Then I usually have to loosen my embrucher to the point that other notes don't play well, or are extremely out of tune.

Even on a horn in perfect regulation that has no leaks, you still have to loosen your embouchure to play the low notes. Playing the sax involves constant embouchure adjustment. It's just that after a while you do it subconsiously so you may not be aware you're doing it.

Go ahead and loosen your embouchure for the low notes, just tighten up again when you get back into the staff.
BTW- It does sound like your horn needs to see a tech.

[gary]

Well folks...this post comes on the end of several strings where responders have tried to help out but the original posters just haven't done their homework and then expected others to take up the slack for them. That's just lazy and not very considerate. Guess after several in a row another one seeming to start off the same way got the better of me.

In this case, seems to me that if he didn't have problems on one horn and did on another, the first thing to do is to check out the horn in question. Then if you are still having problems, ask for all the help you can get.

I wouldn't want anyone with legitimate, thought-through questions to be inhibited from asking. That would certainly eliminate me from some of my more naive questions, that's for sure.

[Tenorsaxer]

I actually had this exact problem on my Yamaha YTS-52, It turns out that the two pads on the bell had a considerable leak, along with some other ones. I got that fixed and now can blow low notes pretty much all the time.

I also concur with everyone else. take it to a repair-dude and have him look at it.

[Storamin]

Switch to bari for some EXTREME training. Come back to tenor and you will be surprised how easy those low notes will pop out.

[Kosma]

Very true!

[Greyduster]

I played a Buffet Evette ( student model) for two and a half years.
Anything below C was a bitch spelt BITCH.

My teacher assured me the horn was fine (not that he'd played it).

Two months ago I bought a Yani T991. Hit evet note below c every time. If I improved that much in the time it took to buy a new horn I'll believe in fairies.

I've kept the Evette and play it occasionally. I'm nowhere near experienced enough to give a definitive analysis but i think it takes way to much effort to close the bell pads. I'm curious to know whether this is a pad problem or whether the mechanism isn't closint the cup down hard enough, as i do have to use a lot of force.

Well I guess what I'm saying is it can be easy to get those low notes and if it isn't, get the horn checked or, if you can afford it just buy a good horn.

[freerdr88]

If you want to play low notes get a keilwerth, the bell is larger so it is much easier to play low, i have a ex90 and i can play a Bb extremely easily.

[Sigmund451]

I have found lower notes much easier with a change in mouthpiece.

Also a larger tip opening so you can get some air in there...Im no expert but I did notice that right off. Probably leaks like an SOB tool.

[buddrobroy]

Buy an old horn. My 1932 Conn will whisper B flat. And im an old cat who doesnt play very often.

[Troy]

I'm a fairly new player, but I've been reading this forum for over 3 years now. Everything I've read points to leaks as your problem--and they are common in this area of the horn.

If you've had your sax fixed by a good tech (apparently some are not that great at catching leaks), then perhaps the horn is not holding adjustment well. Cheaper horns fall out of adjustment too easily.

My Buescher plays the low notes super easy, even though I'm not a very good player yet. A couple good techs have adjusted it...and it's a good horn, so that helps.

[freerdr88]

i say, buy a keilwerth. they play low notes better than any other, i have an Ex90 series II and it plays the low ones incredibly easily. another suggestion is to try different reeds or mouthpieces.

[freerdr88]

i say, buy a keilwerth. they play low notes better than any other, i have an Ex90 series II and it plays the low ones incredibly easily. another suggestion is to try different reeds or mouthpieces.

[Russ]

I had this low note problem today on my new Tenor.
It soon became apparent that there was a minute leak coming from the octave pad on the crook. One little 'tweak' to the linkage arm and the low notes are reached even with a dry reed... Awsome !

Gotta be a leak, and not necessarily near the bottom.

[Dave dix]

Get a leak light,easy to use and it will tell you if its the sax or you at fault.
If one is not available use a dc converter (multi voltage one or 12v from any hardware shop) and sloder a capless side light bulb on the end. Not the best leak light but i keep one in my gig bag for use on the road and it works fine
Total outlay about $5
Dave

[SAXISMYAXE]

I've owned a LOT of horns over the years, and still have quite a few in my collection, and the two biggest contributors to this problem (given you have a quality made horn to begin with) are: Leaks somewhere in the keywork-these can be quite difficult to eliminate to a sufficient degree (even by the best techs), and second the mouthpiece/ligature/reed setup. Both can REALLY make a big impact, so if you eliminate the first, try some different setups and I think you will have better results with at least one of them. Cheers.

[Saxdaddy]

Sounds like a leak, or leaks. The yamaha is one of the easiest to play down. BTW leaks are really pretty easy to get out. Just takes time and money. All leaks need to be removed for a instrument to play at its true potential.

[tubbycub]

I have a question here...
I own a Selmer Serie II tenor but had not been playing it for about 2 years as I was playing the alto and baritone during this period. When I started playing it, the horn sounds ok except for the low D where it wobbles. The strange thing is that lower notes like C, B, Bb sounds good and can be produced effortlessly. I will have to loosen my enbouchure to get this D note and switch back to my normal embouchure when moving to other notes above or below.

Does anyone have any idea on what is happening to my low D?
It can't possibly be due to leaks as the lower notes could be played easily, right?

[gary]

tubbycub - I've got a Conn 10M and I've got the same problem. The only way I overcome it is with long tones and letting my embouchure/air stream find the proper setting.