Whats the thing with different Mouthpiece tip openings?

[swede_peter]

Hey guys, ive been playing for 2 years, and i want to ask the experienced guys here on sotw: can anyone explain to me the different tip openings on mouthpieces. Ill line up some questions here:

1. Large tip opening. Easy or hard for a beginner? :?

2. small tip opening. Easy or hard for a beginner? :?

3. My saxteacher (ive had him for a year) gave me a Otto Link (Tenor Super tone master no:7) mouthpiece, and im very greatful :) for that, but is it in your opinion concidered "easy" to play on? :?

4. What tip opening/mouthpiece would you recommend that are easy to play on? (maximum price 200 dollars)? Im mostly playing jazz, a bit classic.

5. Metal or rubber, is one better then the other for beginners?

Im asking this because it feels sometimes like im "pushing" air into the mpc :| , like i have to blow too hard. Im really trying to blow relaxed, but its hard to get a deasant tone then.

Greatful for all input guys :) . Thank you all.

/Pete.

[Alto Saxy]

I'm not going to pretend i know a lot on this topic (because I don't) but generally, large tip opening is generally harder for a beginner, while smaller tip mpc's are easier for a beginner. Rubber would generally be easier for a beginner. As for your difficulties playing, try a softer reeds. Wider tip mpc's normally require softer reeds. Of course don't take my word for it, cause as I said, I'm not very knowledgable on mpcs.

[cleger]

Im asking this because it feels sometimes like im "pushing" air into the mpc :| , like i have to blow too hard. Im really trying to blow relaxed, but its hard to get a deasant tone then.

Greatful for all input guys :) . Thank you all.

/Pete.

I know you asked for advice from experienced posters, but I'll give you my $.02 anyway :D .

I've been playing for less time than you, but I thought I'd chime in since I just went through a mouthpiece change where I went from an S-80 c* (tip ~0.070) to a Lamberson J7 (tip opening of 0.110). At first I didn't think I was going to be able to play the lamberson and it took a long time to find the right reeds to play with it. But now that I have found the right reeds and done a lot of long tones to adjust to the different air requirements, I am very happy with it.

I think in general, a beginner would be better served starting on a smaller tip opening simply because it is easier to control and the air support is easier to deal with, but opinions are like belly buttons (everyone has one) on this type of question.

I find that the difference with the big tip opening is the flexibility in allowing for much more volume since you can blow hard without the mouthpiece "closing" up and you can do this while using relatively soft reeds. What I have also found is that note bending is much easier and you have to be careful not to overdo this.

[MojoBari]

Here is an old reply of mine I saved from a related question:

Q:What are the differences in sound, etc between the following mpc's?

Selmer soloist C*, C**, D and E

What are the differences in sound for an S80, S90, 170, 180, 190?


A:This basic question should be visited more often. When you stay with a basic mouthpiece design and go gradually larger with the tip opening, it takes more air to get the reed to vibrate. Some call this "more resistant" since it is harder to get the sound going. I prefer that it is "less responsive" in generating sound and "less resistant" to air flow since you now use more air when playing.

But the key to playing larger tip openings is to match them to softer reeds. This recovers the responsiveness and can actually be more responsive than a hard reed with a close tip opening.

I think a larger tip with a softer reed is easier to play at both ends of the sax range. On a close tip, your embouchure eventually gets strong enough that the reed closes off when you play loud on high notes. This causes you to use a harder reed. This often makes the low notes difficult to play softly and with control. There are usually leaks in the sax that contribute to this problem. We've all heard players who honk on the low notes. Going to a larger tip and a softer reed often recovers the low note response and the set-up will not close off on the loud high notes.

Now the problem with going too large is pitch control. Larger tips are "more expressive" in that a good player can bend the pitch and shade the tone easier. But the intonation now changes more with subtle embouchure moves. Even highly experienced players will get to a point where going larger in tip opening is not a good thing.

Lastly, let's talk tone. To me this is a secondary consideration when going to larger tips. But once you get into a comfortable zone of tip openings and reeds, you can try neighboring sizes for fine tuning tone and response. You can also try different mouthpiece designs to assist in getting the sound you want. Anyhow, the general change in tone, as one goes larger in tip opening and softer in reed strength, is to get a darker and louder sound. To compensate for this effect, most open tip mouthpieces in use have a baffle added to the design to add brightness to the sound.

So how much change in tip opening should you try? On tenor and bari, a .010" larger tip opening will feel like a "step." You will most likely need to drop down 1/2 reed strength. A .005" change will feel like a 1/2 step and might help in zeroing in on a good size. Some players can adjust to a leap of 2 steps, but 3 is not recommended.

On alto and soprano, a step is more like .005" in tip opening. You can argue that maybe soprano should be .004" and alto .006" or so, but you get the idea. If you study a mouthpiece chart of tip openings you will see that most makers increment their sizes in the steps I listed and many offer 1/2 steps.

[Mike Ruhl]

Peter, first of all, read Mojo's post several times. Great post, Mojo.

If it feels like you're straining to provide the #7 Link with the air it needs to produce a good tone, then you can either try a softer reed, or try a mouthpiece with a smaller tip opening.

2 years is not a long time to be playing, especially if you're not playing every day. It takes a while to develop the strength to maintain a strong enough airstream to support even a moderately open tenor mouthpiece.

For under $200, the best mouthpieces are probably the Ralph Morgan mouthpieces. There are numerous threads about these mouthpieces. I'd suggest you try a Morgan 6M.

[heath]

Also the opening of the tip is affected by the length of the facing. Short facing curve would be harder to blow if you had a more open tip.

Shorter facings lend themselves to better high note control and longer facings tend to make low notes a little eaiser.

Of course all this depends on your reed strength and your strength of course.

And a wider tip is definintly harder to control when it comes to intonation. I find open pieces to be very expressive like Mojo mentioned, but they take a good deal of work to get your chops up to the point that you aren't playing sloppy when you tire out.

Also the old theory about larger tip openings make for a bigger sound has been debunked. Some of the greatest tenor players used modest tip openings.

[sjonesjrmd]

I have had the distinct pleasure of doing business with Steve Fowler and have purchased one of his Mouthpiece opening measuring micrometers. I was really surprised to see so much variation between the standard "established mouthpiece chart" numbers as popularised by so many and the "real" measured mouthpiece numbers. I highly reccomend that anyone who is really interested in "knowing what you're blowing" get one of these or have someone really measure their mouthpiece. You may find that you are making some good decisions on "bad" or "innacurate" data.
Thanks for listening.:yikes!:

[mayho]

Does anyone know what the tip opening is on these? Thanks. Mayho

[sinebar]

Hey guys, ive been playing for 2 years, and i want to ask the experienced guys here on sotw: can anyone explain to me the different tip openings on mouthpieces. Ill line up some questions here:

1. Large tip opening. Easy or hard for a beginner? :?

2. small tip opening. Easy or hard for a beginner? :?

3. My saxteacher (ive had him for a year) gave me a Otto Link (Tenor Super tone master no:7) mouthpiece, and im very greatful :) for that, but is it in your opinion concidered "easy" to play on? :?

4. What tip opening/mouthpiece would you recommend that are easy to play on? (maximum price 200 dollars)? Im mostly playing jazz, a bit classic.

5. Metal or rubber, is one better then the other for beginners?

Im asking this because it feels sometimes like im "pushing" air into the mpc :| , like i have to blow too hard. Im really trying to blow relaxed, but its hard to get a deasant tone then.

Greatful for all input guys :) . Thank you all.

/Pete.


It helped me a lot when I pinpointed the right combination of tip opening and reed. It made it much easier to play with decent tone. But this may change as I progress.