Learning Piano frustrating... any tips?

[Jbroad572]

Please tell me it gets easier, it is almost impossible for me to play one thing in my left and a different part in my right. It feels like my brain can't unlock or I just don't have the coordination for it. It's frustrating though. And reading the Grand Staff.... :x argh!!!! (stupid bass cleff)

[gary]

...it is almost impossible for me to play one thing in my left and a different part in my right.No it is not. Do you play sax with one or two hands?

You can't play piano with two independent hands now. Just keep at it. It won't come overnight. It just depends on whether you are really dedicated to learning piano or not. Patience and perserverance.

[Jbroad572]

Patience and perserverance.
I know that is the key. I just have the hardest time playing the rhythm in one and the melody in the other. Like my brain just won't function properly. As with everything though, it takes time and practice. I know, I know, I know...

[groovesax]

Not sure what your working from but I would recommend Alfred's Piano methods for adults. Pretty systematic approach and starts off with pretty basic LH / RH stuff and builds. I was working through it until my cheap Yamaha piano's D key went on strike and I got frustrated and quit.

[Jbroad572]

Not sure what your working from but I would recommend Alfred's Piano methods for adults. Pretty systematic approach and starts off with pretty basic LH / RH stuff and builds. I was working through it until my cheap Yamaha piano's D key went on strike and I got frustrated and quit.
That's what I'm using. Im taking a class at my college and that's the require text. Just on my skills assesment I did terribly. I do simple songs where the rhythm isn't too difficult. But, I really need to learn this bass clef. It takes me quite awhile to see what I'm looking at. I figure if I play some music in bass clef on my sax that should help somewhat.

[ThomasK]

Real jazz (and classical) playing on the sax requires not only the task of playing the sax, which is not that hard, but also the simultaneous task of keeping track of rhythm, hearing harmony, etc. One cannot escape the true experience of music, which is to do at least two things at once. One can hide from this and fake it on the sax, but the realization of what it really takes to play music should be enough for many players to quit.

Piano, drums, and guitar make it unavoidable to think on (at least) two levels. Your struggle is a sign of a lack of intrinsic musical talent, but it is one that many saxophonists probably face. What talent you have can be cultivated and unlocked by persistent practice and an unwillingness to avoid thinking on two levels at once. Note: although I speak of "thinking on two levels," it is moreso about hearing what you are supposed to play (i.e., what is written) in your head and then playing it; you feel it as much as you "think" about it.

Many players get the stuffings beat out of them by rhythm section instruments, but be aware that nearly any player worth a lick has cultivated some degree of fluency on the piano. The ability to play the piano will improve every aspect of your sax playing.

[gary]

What talent you have can be cultivated and unlocked by persistent practice and an unwillingness to avoid thinking on two levels at once.Thomas, maybe it's the weather or the time, but I have no idea what this phrase means, so could you rephrase this for me? I don't understand this sentance so I can't, then, really follow through on the point you're making.

So, if I want to overcome my unwillingness, would that, then, mean that I should be willing?

And if I should be willing to avoid certain thinking, then does this mean that I should be willing to avoid thinking on two levels at once?

Or distilling it further, if I am willing to avoid thinking on two levels, that I should actually be thinking on two levels at once...or on only one level at a time?

:? Thanks

[ThomasK]

Gary and others,

I hope this clarifies:


(1) A necessary condition of playing the piano is the ability to do two things at once -- that is, each hand must act independently.

(2) The struggle of doing "two things at once" can be conceptualized as the struggle to think on two levels at once.

(3) The saxophone allows one to avoid the experience of independent thought / action, since one is only playing one line during any given interval of time (albeit with two hands).

(4) In order to properly interact and have a certain "freedom in the groove," the saxophonist will have to do two things at once. In jazz, for example, the saxophonist will have to hear the rhythm section and stay in time with such precision that that experience and the experience of creating lines will be akin to doing two things at once -- though it is safe to say that the conjunction of the two experiences should become so linked as to become one inseparable experience.

(5) Thus, the stuggle, for example, to stay in time while improvising is akin to that of trying to keep one's right and left hand in proper time while playing the piano.

(6) Practicing the piano will help one achieve the experience of (4).

(7) "Two things at once" is crude, since any given cognitive process involves many more interlocking processes than two. "Two things at once" describes our conscious experience more than our the processes of the cognitive unconscious. It is safe to say that for trained musicians, what began for them as conscious often becomes something of the subconscious.

[hgiles]

Try learning Heart and Soul (with improvisations) in the key of Eb. It will get your two hands working independently of each other.

Then you can try Night Train (blues) ...

[groovesax]

That's what I'm using. Im taking a class at my college and that's the require text. Just on my skills assesment I did terribly. I do simple songs where the rhythm isn't too difficult. But, I really need to learn this bass clef. It takes me quite awhile to see what I'm looking at. I figure if I play some music in bass clef on my sax that should help somewhat.

Well this advice is coming from a self study piano drop out, :D but my suggestion would be to just try to learn the left hand part on it's own for starters until it becomes internalized and automatic then go back and add the right hand. I think for us sax players, the right hand is part is going to come more naturally to us. If you can internalize the left hand part first (i.e play it so it's in your fingers and you don't have to think much about it), then over half the work is done. Sometimes you have to just work one measure at a time - LH first, RH second put them together.

[bubblegirlsax]

I'd start by chords. When I taught myself chord-based piano, I began with two hand chord progressions. For example,

Move from chords C, E, G

Left hand: C G C G E A E A G D G D

Right hand: C EG C EG E F#A E F#A G BD G BD

Take your time if you need and slowly speed up. Work with different chords and change your tempo or patterns as you can


A more difficult progression, based on the same chords would be:

Left hand: C E G E C E G E E A F# A E A F# A

G B D B G B D B

Right hand: C E E C C E E C E A A E E A A E C EG E F#A E F#A G B B D G B B D


Give yourself little exercises.

Then move on to simple pop songs. Lucky by Britney Spears can be picked up without too much trouble. The left hand repeats A B C C C B A A . . .

Right hand plays melody. This song works with taking turns and might help you get used to concentrating on two different routines at once.


Good luck!

[jivemutha]

'Til recently, I only played piano.

The suggestion to learn each hand separately at first before trying to put them together may well help, but the big thing I think you need to do is find easier music--so easy that you CAN play both hands together. Start with kids books. Once you get the simple stuff rolling, you'll overcome your sense that you "can't do it" and then you'll progress with less frustration. Good luck!

[bubblegirlsax]

I was looking around on sheetmusicplus.com last night and they have a lot of easy piano music. Just look up the keyword "easy" :)

They even had Cats the musical!

[Blackwolf42]

I second jive's advice. I took piano lessons for about 8 years, and it is important to start on pieces with an easy melody in the right hand, and simple chords in the left hand.

[fballatore]

Joel -

I'm sure this has been said, but to me, the key is practicing the right and left hand parts separately, and then putting them together.

Frank

[RawringLiger]

learning to play jazz piano is alot simpler than slassical music. With jazz just learn how to play the chords with ur left hand and then u can funk out witht eh right hand. OTherwise for classical stuff u MUST MUST MUST learn how to play each part with both hands well before putting it together.

[UltraPianist]

Hello there. For my recent studies with piano i have found out that montunos (especially the sincompated rhythms of merengue for example) can help you acquire independance in both hands more easily. Since these rhythms are quick and really difficult (since they have a lot of sincopation) it trains your brain to stick to such things. If you want more information or some midis or example of these, or just about any help when learning piano, just send either an e-mail or private message. Also I recommend you read on pianofundamentals.com, where they have a really good book (the only one probably) on practice methods to make playing piano more efficient. One of them that I also use and they mention in the book and was also mentioned here is that you can practice one hand, then the other and then put them together. Also, practice the most difficult sections first.
However, playin piano should not be that frustrating really, it is really fun to me. You can also try and accompany songs if you have a keyboard... it makes it a lot of fun. Don't be shy, experiment, play (both with the music and ideas) and just generally enjoy. There is no reason why learning piano should be painful or frustrating.
Cheers