Vintage Yani's

[Hurling Frootmig]

What the general consensus of the older Yani's? I've got an A-5 on the way and haven't been able to find much on the early models such as:

A-3/T-3
A-4/T-4
A-5/T-5
A-6/T-6

What was the production run of the A-5?

[Hurling Frootmig]

My A-5 came today.

It seems to be a very well made and thought out horn. The keywork is very Selmer in nature. The right hand feels more compact than my Buescher 400 almost as compact as a Conn 6M feels to me. It has the back mounted f# trill with the annoyingly small pearl ala Selmer. The best thing is that the left pinky cluster is not a Selmer copy. The best way to describe it would be a cross between Buescher/Conn and Selmer. G# looks Selmer but the rest of the cluster is very vintage.

It's a non-ribbed contruction but it still feels very sturdy.

It has a nice centered tone (with mild spread) a different beast than say a 400. I found it matched very well with my vintage Yanagisawa R5 hard rubber mouthpiece. I was only able to play on it a short time today so I can't give any further impressions.

I'll post more later.

[Hurling Frootmig]

I just spoke with someone at Leblanc who was able to give me some facts about the older Yani's.

The first model was the T-3 (1953-1965) introduced in 1953. The alto version called the A-3 (1956-1965) followed in 1956. In 1965 the A-5 (1965-1971) was introduced, the T-5 (1966-1971) tenor was released in 1966. The A-5 represented their top of the line horn ala todays 99x series. The A-4 was introduced as their standard pro model ala the 900 series in 1966 with the introduction of the A-4 (1966-1970) and T-4 (1966-1970).

In 1970 the successor to the A-5 was introduced as the A-6 (1970-1978) with the standard pro model A-4's replacement being the A500 (1971-1978) coming one year later.

They do not have serial number ranges for the horns in the 1960's or earlier. He did mention that the new necks should work with the older horns.

This boils down to:

1953-1965 T-3 - top tenor
1956-1965 A-3 - top alto

1965-1971 A-5/T-5 - top alto and tenor
1966-1970 A-4/T-4 - lesser pro alto and tenor

1970-1978 A-6/T-6 - top alto and tenor
1971-1978 A-500/T-500 - lesser pro alto and tenor

The A-500's were redesigned in 1980. The 880's were introduced in 1980. I don't have the introduction date of the 800 series horns.

[Fred]

HF, you have provided some of the best info on older Yani's I've seen. THANKS!!

Here's a few fill-ins:

I believe the A800 and T800 were introduced in July 1978.

The A900 and T900 were introduced in October 1992, but Yana already had plans for their next release. After only 5 months of production, the A900u and the T900u were introduced having many of the features that would later be found on the 901 series. They didn't bother to release the 901's until 1998.

Sopranos and bari's didn't necessarily follow the same calendar. I can fill in what I know about those if anyone is interested.

Mind you, most of this information is pieced together from half a dozen different websites, some of which are slightly contradictory. :roll:

[Hurling Frootmig]

From what I can gather it sounds like Yani stayed with the same basic body tube for quite some time probably up until the 901/991 series. I'm trying to get some confirmation on that. All I have to do is pick up an A-6 and then a 880 and take some measurements. I'm sure my wife would approve of this use of funds :lol: .

[Hurling Frootmig]

Now if we can just get some information on the differences between the 880/990/990u/991. From what I have come across it sounds like the early 880's are different from the late 880's and that the late 880's are almost the same as 990's. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Fred]

Don't know about early/late 880's. My A880 is from 1980, which I think was their first year. I think my T800 was from 1978. I don't know much about measuring saxes, but I'll try if you let me know what you need.

Of course, if you want a job done right, you need to do it yourself . . . on your very own horns. And if that means you have to pick up a few more, well . . . :wink:

[Hurling Frootmig]

Upon side by side inspection the necks from the new Yani's will not work with the A-5. The A-5 neck seems very close to a Mark VI neck. I'll be trying that shortly.

I test played an A-991 today and found the horns to be pretty similar in tone. They both have a centered sound. The A-991 has a little more power on the low end but was less even up and down the stack. I found A2 and higher to be a little on the soft side compared to the more even nature of the A-5.

The A-991 has nicely cupped pearls that really fit the hands nicely. The neck angle is different between the two horns as well. The A-991 has double arms and a ribbed construction - while the A-5 does not have either of those features. The A-991 is a very fine horn but while I think it might have been a touch better overall than my A-5 it wasn't worth trading.

[amalfitano_hamilton]

Are any of you guys hip to the Selmer London horns of the 70's? Apparently they were actually Yanis. They were called the Super Pennsylvania. A guy had one on eBay and I bid on it. he was really slow to answer my questions so I didn't actually bid as much as I had planned, and alas, the reserve was not met. I ended up getting a brand new B&S for $750 instead.

[Hurling Frootmig]

It seems like a few of us tried to get information out of the guy who had it up on ebay but weren't able to get anything. I generally won't bid on something until I am sure it is what I think it is.

[Fred]

I've seen horns advertised as 880 stencils on ebay that I don't believe actually were 880's. Yes, they were Yani's and probably very nice horns, but not 880's. The 880 stencils I've seen have "880" on them, as well as the customary 880 identifiers. Unfortunately, I've seen (and currently own) Yani stencils that bear no model designation. Makes it tough to ID, especially when Yanagisawa was making more than one model at the time. (See HF's earlier post on concurrent models by years of manufacture.)

As far as the Selmers, there was apparently a Pennsylvania and a Super Pennsylvania. Both Yani's? I don't know, nor do I know which models went into them. One thing for sure, the manufacture date on the stencil needs to be no earlier than the introduction date of the Yani model it supposedly represents. T'ain't always so on ebay.
:dazed:

[Hurling Frootmig]

To make matters more interesting in terms of dates I have seen an A4 and a T4 that have serial numbers that indicate they were made in 1973. According to the serial number I am guessing that my horn was made in 1971 yet differs in minor ways versus another A5 I have seen.

I think the reason some people get confused (let's assume they are truthful by nature and just ill informed) about calling every Yani stencil an 880 is probably due to the lack of information and documentation regarding the older horns.

Saxpics told me someone out there was working on a Yani page. I would love to see that.

[Fred]

That brings up yet another huge area of missing data. It's hard enough to find out when certain models began production . . . even harder finding when they were phased out. HF's information on concurrent models helps a lot, but dates . . . what are the dates????

I have corresponded with Saxpics about a Yani page, but I've got more problems than I have solutions. I've collected a few photos that I've taken and off ebay - some good / some lousy - of different models for my own education. Problem is - I don't own the ebay photos and it wouldn't be right to actually publish them. Secondly, after seeing Saxpics great photos, my collection of photos is an embarassment. They just aren't that good, and aside from my two Martin Yani's, I don't have any to photograph. Third problem is that there is a potential gap between what I think I know and what I actually know. I'm not even SURE what model tenor I have. It's not an 880 and was probably made in 1979. Maybe an 800, but no model markings are on the body.

Reckon we could get some retired Yanagisawa craftsman to write a book?

[Hurling Frootmig]

I haven't seen an 880 without double arms. I think it's going to be necessary to measure the neck receivers in order to get some ideas about different designs. My A5's neck is slightly smaller than a 140k Selmer Mark VI neck but bigger than the current production horns.

[JfW]

I have an alto 880 made in 1986 IIRC,

Fantastic horn, I've never played it's equal. (of course, I haven't played nearly everything ;) )

any questions about it?

[MakKe]

Here's a few fill-ins:

I believe the A800 and T800 were introduced in July 1978.

Sopranos and bari's didn't necessarily follow the same calendar. I can fill in what I know about those if anyone is interested.

:roll:

I'm interested in bari's. What are called the early 80' models, B800?
My bari is from 1984.

Markku S

[Hurling Frootmig]

That's in the production run for the 8xx series. I haven't seen any of the Bari's up close but I am guessing that the differentiating factor between the 800 and 880 would be ribbed construction and double arms on the lower bell keys. Please e-mail me some photos of your horn if you get the chance.

[Fred]

The B880 baris came out in 1980; the B800's in 1978. I agree with HF - look for the double-armed bell keys as evidence of an 880 (unless that feature didn't carry through to the baris. Either should be a great sax.

[noelpaz]

The Yana 800 I am getting has rib contruction but no double arms. All of you who have experience with a Yana 800 do they really have soft metal

[Fred]

I've got a tenor from 1979 that I think is an 800 - no markings unfortunately. It's beefy and built like a tank. That doesn't necessarily mean the metal isn't soft, but I'm probably not going to intentionally test it's resistance to denting. :lol:

Incidently - it's a great playing tenor!

[super20dan]

i have several yani 800 models and yes the brass is a little softer than the norm but no where near as soft as the taiwanese saxes . i love these horns and regularly gig on them but they seldom need repairs.

[JfW]

The metal is a bit soft, but the overall construction is superb, the action light, and the tone very versitile.

[Saxdude]

I did purchase a Vito VSP tenor 15+ years ago which was a Yani 880. The number "880" was back by the serial number of the horn. This tenor also had the underslung neck (while a alto vsp did not) - Hard to really say, but I also have a Martin curved sop and have seen other brands (Dorado and Whitehall) that bear the A5 markings

[xax]

just to add some information regarding vintage yanigisawa tenors. i called the factory in japan in the summer of 03 to try to find out what year my t-500 ser# 173xxx, was built. the language barrier was brutal and they were initially completely mystified at my wanting to know about this old horn. but they warmed to the task after i told them that it was my absolute favorite horn. they informed me of the standard method of determinig the year(digits in the middle of the ser#) but after 15 more mins. of trying to understand each other, it was determined that this horn used the "old system" and that would take time. they called me back after midnight to inform me that it was made in 1967. but as to what the old system is...i don't have a clue.
to the 800 series: until recently i had a T-800 elimona with double arms. ser# 0180xxxx: apparently built in1980. the fact that while "only" an 800, it has double key arms, and a ribbed body suggest that the elimona name at that time,was the top of the line model, even though it does not have the underslung octave key (when did that first show up?). further it has a yanagisawa medallian on both the neck and the bell. the bell medallion looks gold plated though i haven't tested it. the necks of these two horns are interchangable and the bodies appear to be the same, though i did not measure here and there to verify. the left hand pinky tables are slightly different though they appear to be of the same design; i actually prefer the t-500's. overall, the keywork on this 800 is a bit lighter, though to be fair my 500 was partially rebuilt within the last 2 years and may not have the original spec springs. finally, probably the biggest physical difference in my very personal opinion, is that the key touches on the elimona are concave, which i really hate. flatter is better! as for the sound...the t-800 seems to project a little better with a slightly brighter tone while the t-500 has aslightly warmer rounder tone. i should note that the 500 is delaquered so that could make the difference, i spose?? also, regarding the ribbed body tubes; i wonder if it was in response to a problem with earlier horns. i have had two posts pop loose on my 500 over the course of the past 30 or so years. i resoldered them myself (ugly but successful!)
just some ramblings that i hope will be informative to fellow yanagisawans

[Hurling Frootmig]

Thanks for sharing.

I sent them a piece of mail many months ago in English and Japanese (translated by babel fish) asking about the old serial numbers. I haven't heard anything from them.

If I ever decide to go to Japan I'm going to get Randall to take me to the Yanagisawa factory along with a battery of translators.

[Anonymous]

Now I'm really curious what model my old Yani bari is. It has a serial number similar to Xax's T-500 tenor -- 174xxx. Xax said that put his horn at 1967. Did Yani have a low A bari available in 1967? I've been assuming I had a B800 from about 1978-80 (no double arms and non-ribbed construction).

This horn seems to be a very close copy of a Mark VI and plays fantastic! It is a stencil -- so perhaps they just didn't sell a bari under the Yani logo back then?

Any ideas?

[Fred]

If your serial number is 174xxx, I think your bari was manufactured in 1974 - that seems to fit the pattern of Yani serial numbers until they quit including the date in the number (they changed that in 1980.) The 800 series bari didn't come out until 1978; the 880 in 1980.

The earlies bari I know of is the B6 which began production in December of 1966. My guess is that's what you've got. Hope that helps.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info. I did a little search on B6 and found a picture of one that looks very similar. I have seen two variations in how the bell pads close the neighboring pad on old Yani baris like mine -- Mine has an arm fastened directly to the bell pad cups that pushes on an arm coming out from the rod of the neighboring pad -- the other variant has an arm coming out from the rod pressing on another arm coming out from the rod of the other pad. I assume the one on the cup is the older version (as it can cause the cup to flex when closing the neighboring pad).

I'd like to find anyone else who plays one of these old Yani baris to chat with.

[Fred]

Glad to be of some assistance. It's true that Yanagisawa produced numerous variations throughout their model runs. We had a discussion about a strange 880 a while back - no double arms or underslung octave mechanism . . . yet 880 engraved on it bigger than life. So I wouldn't be at all surprised to see some variations in baris.

[Hurling Frootmig]

From what I can tell Yanagisawa modified their earlier models during the production run. I've seen A-5's with two different types of keyguards and other various differences.

[xax]

Blaine, curious as to whether underneath the LH pinky table, octave key, and misc other keys, you find the last 2 digits of your serial #. also, what is the stencil brand?
Fred, i think i remember a nice looking yanagisawa stencil bari from the 50's on ebay last year ...
FWIW, i've heard that in the sixties, one of the big bands (Buddy Rich?) had a "bunch" of Whitehall saxes, at least partly because the tenor(?) player in the band was the importer at the time.

[Anonymous]

Yes ... the the last digits of the serial number are stamped under many of those keys. The label is "ARTIST" in ugly block letters and just a tiny bit of stylized engraving on either side of the lettering.

[xax]

Blaine, as i recall, Sarge@World Wide Sax had a T-5 Dorado stencil with similar #'s to mine. it also had the last 2 under many keys. since the 800 Elimona tenor('80) that i sold recently, did not have that feaure, i'm thinking that perhaps, that is a way to help pin down the year range. anyone have info on this? the T-5 Dorado was nearly sequential to mine except that the first digits were 273xxx rather than 173xxx. at that time i speculated that on the earlier horns, they used a numbering system wherein the stencil horns started with 2 rather than 1. but as Fred has pointed out, everything i know (or think i know) is wrong!

[sinkdraiN]

How do you know if a horn is an 880? My soprano is an old one piece Yanigisawa. The palm keys are flat like the old mark vi. There is a few small numbers underneath the left hand pinky keys. There is no model markings on the horn itself. It just says yanagisawa with some simple engraving. The horn plays wonderful and I have not found anything better yet. What is this horn?

[sinkdraiN]

ok, this looks like my horn http://www.saxquest.com/productDetails.asp?ProductCode=00111434yanisop

Are these considered nice horns?

[Fred]

I'm still trying to figure out for sure what model Yani went into my "Martin" tenor. I just noticed that the "born-died" dates that Hurling Footmig listed for Yani models exclude 1979 entirely, which is when I believe my tenor was made. (I erred in an earlier post when I stated from memory that it was a '78.) It may, therefore, be an 800 - as they began production in 1978. FWIW, it has ribbed construction, but no double arms and no underslung octave mechanism. It does have the last two or three numbers of the serial number under some of the keys.

Does anyone else have another Yani tenor of known model pedigree that has a serial number starting "XX79"?

[sax_appeal]

I have an old pro yani (don't know the model though) and it feels a lot like a selmer. It is definately my best sax, though I play it less than my alto and bari. Great vintage sax.

[sax_appeal]

Fred,

I've had a closer look at my yani. The serial number also starts XX79 and the last three digits of the number are also on the back of the low Bb key

[Fred]

My tenor is stenciled "Martin" and has no model number stamped on it. Is yours labeled "Yanagisawa"? Does it have a model number somewhere around the serial number? My alto is a Martin Yani also, but it is also stamped 880. I wish they had been consistent in what they did, but I'm content that they are great players.

[xax]

FYI...there is an 880 tenor on ebay. doesn't give the ser#. here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16234&item=3718598 762&rd=1

[xax]

FYI...there is a Yanagisawa 991 "underslung" tenor neck on ebay. here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16234&item=3718692 105&rd=1
i recently bought one(model# 66t) for my 1967 T-500 tenor and suprisingly, it is brighter than the original.

[sax_appeal]

mine is stamped MADE BY YANAGISAWA there is no model number though.

[Hurling Frootmig]

I've seen that engraving mostly on the T-6 horns. Have you checked it against my serial number list? Check out http://oldyani.home.comcast.net/ and see if you can find a model year based on the serial number list. I need to add a number of horns which I will do as soon as I get a chance.

[rockinsage]

Hello all, I've been following this thread with interest as I've been trying to identify my Martin tenor and just recently discovered this site. I believe I have a 1981 Martin stencil manufactured by Yanagisawa, according to the pictures and serial # charts on some of the sites I've seen. The Martin name is stenciled on the front, it has the double arms on the Low B and C keys, and on the back it's clearly marked as "Japan 880". A while back I upgraded the neck, don't remember to exactly what, but I believe it's a Yani neck, it's marked as "66".

I've been playing only alto for the last few years (Yamaha Custom), and have wanted to get back into playing tenor. I'm debating whether I should get my Martin overhauled, and then whether to keep or sell it. I have no feel for the value of these horns today, and I don't see any currently on eBay or elsewhere. Can someone help me out?

Thanks!

[Fred]

Yep, you've got an 880 tenor. They are very good, but of course . . . it's all in what you want to play.

Value? Do you still have the original neck? If so, 880 plus original neck would probably go around 900-1000 in good playing condition - less if much work is needed. Without original neck - probably several hundred less. Just one person's opinion, of course . . .

PS - I'm not familiar with your new "66" neck. If it's a well-respected up-grade, you might not lose money if that's all you have.

[rockinsage]

Fred,

Thanks for the info! Yes, I believe I do have the original neck, as well as the original case. I wish I had more information on the neck upgrade! The horn does need some work, all new pads and a few adjustments, but I would probably have that work done regardless of whether I sell or keep it. I'm thinking that I'll just get the work done and see how she's playing! I was originally considering selling it to fund a newer model, like perhaps the Yamaha YTS62 Mark II, or even one of the lesser known brands like Cannonball, Kessler, P. Mauriat, etc.

Thanks!

[Fred]

I think you'll find that the 880 will hold its own with any of those. It will far surpass the 900/901 series Yanis, and compare well to the upper range Yanis.

[xax]

rockinsage,
when you get that puppy back into condition, i bet you'll like it. as fred says, it'll hold it's own with most anything. value? retail as high as $1500.
re. the 66 neck. i think you'll find that it's signicantly brighter than the original. as for the value with or without the original, i would think the question is, are these horns 'collectable". if so, then original is always better(more valuable). if that's not a consideration, then it would seem to be a question of, "do you like the noise the thing makes?". further, it is a yani optional neck, so it's not as though it isn't right. if you want a darker or brighter sound, there are several other optional yani necks to choose from.
btw. is the original neck underslung also?

[rockinsage]

Fred,

Thanks for the info, very helpful!

xax,

Yes, both necks are underslung and appear almost identical at first glance. The 66 neck has two differences though -- the curve is more pronounced and is a bit "taller" than the original neck, and the raised ridge on the top of the neck extends a lot closer to the vent hole than on the original. You are correct -- the 66 is definitely brighter than the original.

Are you familiar with the 66 neck? I can't find any information on this neck, or the other optional Yani's that you mentioned, on the web. Any resources you can point me to would be much appreciated.

[xax]

rockinsage,
i use a 66 neck on my T-500 yani tenor, for R&B. for mouthpieces i use either a vintage berg bullet chamber or vintage wolf tayne. go to the yani web site for the optional necks; as i remember, it's not the most user friendly site but the info about the available necks, is in there somewhere. i would think you could get a good deal on them from dave kessler, online at kessler music.com. (look up at the top of this page). i bought mine on ebay. junkdude.com had an engraved silver over the top neck a coupla months ago.

[Fred]

I've had a clue about the Yani model which belongs with my Martin tenor; it's been right there in the case and I didn't even think about it. The model of my "Martin" is the 1800, and it was made in 1979. I'm thinking that those two facts make it likely that my "Martin" is a Yani T-800. I've been suspecting the 800, but finding the Martin 1800 model designation makes me lean a bit more heavily on my suspicions.

Any other thoughts?

BTW, I have a Leblanc/Martin brochure on both the Martin 1800 Tenor and the Martin 1400 Alto.

[Chris J]

Resurrecting an old thread. I have posted this information before but my mission to find out about my recently acquired alto sax continues, so sorry to repeat myself if you've seen this before....

I recently bought a VSP Vito Yanagisawa stencil. Had the serial number "Japan" and the Yani logo and no other identifying markings at all.

I wrote to Yanagisawa, Japan asking for information, and they kindly replied - to tell me it was built in April 1980, and was model A-600. They said only 50 A-600s were made.

What I haven't found out is what were the actual differences between the A-500 (?step-up ?pro) and the A-800 (pro) models. I just caught up that "Fred" sold a Martin A880 stencil recently on ebay. I looked at his photos and find it hard to see the difference between that and my "A-600"

So what are the differences, and which of the A-500 or A-800 is the closest relative to mine - how can I tell?

Happy to email photos and scan of letter from Yanagisawa if requested. Have already sent to Hurling Frootmig

Chris

[vik21il]

Chris,

I am trying to gather some information about my Whitehall myself. See thread
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=47711
Can you please, post Yanagisawas contact detailes that you used(fax,email). From what I read here, the communication isn't always successfull with them. I would like to inquire about my tenor.
Thanks.

[Chris J]

Hi

I just used the contact details that I found on the internet. If you go to
http://www.yanagisawasax.co.jp/en/about/yanagisawa/
and look at the bottom of the page, details are there. I have not got an email address, though would like one if there was one that anybody knew, out there!...?

Let us know if you get a reply and what you find out. I have tried a second attempt to contact and get more information, but no further replies. I may have been lucky first time

Chris

[vik21il]

Thank you Chris,

I sent two faxes yesterday. I am crossing my fingers and waiting. When and if I get a reply, I will update you about my findings.
By the way, I just saw your new thread and I think it is a great idea. I will post some pictures of my Whitehall there, soon.

Take care.