Selmer Omega?

[hellas]

I'm in Hong Kong and the only Selmer I can buy are Series II, Series III, Aristocrat AS600 & Selmer Omega. I know that Aristocrat are made in Taiwan and both Series II & III are made in Paris, so, where's Selmer Omega manufactured? I cannot found any information about Omega via Selmer website. Thanks!

[Dave dix]

Taiwan made
Dave

[Riff]

I don't believe Selmer still makes the Omega. It was discontinued years ago. If I'm right you must be looking at a used sax that was made in the U.S. (or maybe a new one that has been in dealer stock for a decade or more.)
The Omega name was dropped when the AS-100 came out. There were some minor differences in the design but otherwise it was the same sax as the Omega with a different name.

The AS-100 was later upgraded to the AS-110. In just the last year the AS-110 was discontinued and replaced with the La Voix AS-220. These are being made in Taiwan as Dave said.

Some dealers in the States continued to refer to the AS-100, and later the AS-110 as the Omega even though this was not its official name. This caused some confusion as to what sax you were looking at. Verify exactly what sax the store has.

The Omega, and its two descendents, were fairly decent saxes although they were not quite up to the Selmer Paris standards. The new La Voix models are getting good reviews so far but are probably similar in quality to other saxes coming out of Taiwan.

[hellas]

I've checked the Omega saxophone in the Parsons music shop (http://www.parsonsmusic.com/www/index.php), it's a brand new saxophone with a logo "Selmer Omega" engraved on the bell. So, I think it should be old stock. Here're are the descriptions provided by the music store:

<OMEGA - MG296>
The exclusive line of Selmer and Bach Omega instruments is available only through select authorized dealers. Omega instruments bear the long tradition for quality and craftsmanship.

‧ Sterling silver head-body-foot tubing
‧ Gold-plated nickel silver key mechanism
‧ French (open hole) design
‧ Primo cut head joint
‧ B foot
‧ Gizmo key
‧ Engraved gold-plated lip plate
‧ Gold-plated crown

Thus, according to Riff's comments, all Selmer Omega, AS-100, AS-110 and AS-220 are made in Taiwan? And that's why their selling price just half of Selmer Paris Series II?

[saxmanglen]

That description sounds like a flute.........

[Saxmusiclover]

I've checked the Omega saxophone in the Parsons music shop (http://www.parsonsmusic.com/www/index.php), it's a brand new saxophone with a logo "Selmer Omega" engraved on the bell. So, I think it should be old stock. Here're are the descriptions provided by the music store:

<OMEGA - MG296>
The exclusive line of Selmer and Bach Omega instruments is available only through select authorized dealers. Omega instruments bear the long tradition for quality and craftsmanship.

‧ Sterling silver head-body-foot tubing
‧ Gold-plated nickel silver key mechanism
‧ French (open hole) design
‧ Primo cut head joint

‧ B foot
‧ Gizmo key
‧ Engraved gold-plated lip plate
‧ Gold-plated crown

Thus, according to Riff's comments, all Selmer Omega, AS-100, AS-110 and AS-220 are made in Taiwan? And that's why their selling price just half of Selmer Paris Series II?

Hey Hellas,
I'm from Hong Kong and I use to go Parsons a lot. For what it's worth my impression is that while they have excellent choices in pianos and keyboards, their woodwind collection leaves a lot to be desired. The last time I was there a few months ago the only item worth looking at was a Leblanc clarinet. They only had a few saxes and all were made in China.

[bruce bailey]

That would be the overpriced flute specs. The AS-100 was a pretty nice horn and came out at the same time the VII was introduced and at the time some Selmer reps claimed it was the old VI tooling which it DOES look a lot like. These are kind of sleeper horns but are creeping up in price lately. I have a feeling that the Omega we are talking about is a US horn that was dolled up a bit.

[Riff]

Thus, according to Riff's comments, all Selmer Omega, AS-100, AS-110 and AS-220 are made in Taiwan?

That's not what I said.
I said the Omega, AS-100, & AS 110 were all made in the U.S. and they are all discontinued models.

The La Voix line of saxes are the newest models and they are made in Taiwan. The model number for the La Voix alto sax is AS-220.

If your dealer has a new Omega in the store, it has most likely been sitting there for 20 years.

[Brendan Muse]

I had a friend who played on an Omega. They're pretty good horns. He played all four years in high school, and I imagine he's using it in college.

Now, it's not a top-of-the-line horn, but it doesn't have a top-of-the-line price, either, so you would really come out ahead.

[1saxman]

No, no, no. 'Omega' is a new Selmer USA line with no connection to the Model 162 'Omega' alto sax of 1980 (which was a heck of a sax). Those altos did not have 'Omega' or Model 162 on them anywhere - just Selmer USA. The tenor which came out a couple years later was the Model 164. Serial numbers for these are in the 820xxx to 823xxx range. The horns were eventually called the 100 series (AS100, TS100). These numbers go higher, but still in the 82xxxx range. All of these Elkhart-made saxes are decent horns, with build quality getting worse as you go up. The first ones (like my 821009 alto) were all hand-soldered like the Paris horns. Later, they used induction-soldering, and sometimes the key fitments aren't that precise - like a side key cup will just barely cover the tone hole, for example. You will find some nice examples on ebay from time to time for really good prices if you need a back-up sax that looks and feels like a Mk VI.

[neehaw]

I'm more than a little late to the party here, but 1saxman is correct - the 1980-1990'ish Model 162 horns do not have any indicated model number, just "Selmer USA" on the bell, nice engraving, and a serial number on the back.

My alto is #826460. The keywork is very good, and the tone, intonation, and reliability are exceptional.

[Ricardo]

I have a Selmer (US) that was made in 2001 and is called a Standard. It is marked on the bell "Selmer STD II". I called the company in Elkhart and got the impression that it was the unit that replaced the Omega. Any thoughts on this Alto. Ricardo

[honkytone]

No, no, no. 'Omega' is a new Selmer USA line with no connection to the Model 162 'Omega' alto sax of 1980 (which was a heck of a sax). Those altos did not have 'Omega' or Model 162 on them anywhere - just Selmer USA. The tenor which came out a couple years later was the Model 164. Serial numbers for these are in the 820xxx to 823xxx range. The horns were eventually called the 100 series (AS100, TS100). These numbers go higher, but still in the 82xxxx range. All of these Elkhart-made saxes are decent horns, with build quality getting worse as you go up. The first ones (like my 821009 alto) were all hand-soldered like the Paris horns. Later, they used induction-soldering, and sometimes the key fitments aren't that precise - like a side key cup will just barely cover the tone hole, for example. You will find some nice examples on ebay from time to time for really good prices if you need a back-up sax that looks and feels like a Mk VI.

So where would an 828XXX alto with fancy engraving from top to bottom fall in this scheme? Still a righteous hand-soldered model? Did they start calling and/or stamping them AS100 by this time? What kind of money are they bringing now?

[1saxman]

Yes, I think a 828xxx would be a AS100. No identifying model name on the sax. A very good, US-made sax. Prices go from $500 to $1200. Considering the alternatives in that range, these horns are hot.

[neehaw]

Yes, I think a 828xxx would be a AS100. No identifying model name on the sax. A very good, US-made sax. Prices go from $500 to $1200. Considering the alternatives in that range, these horns are hot.

I'd want to see a picture... that serial number isn't that far from my alto's, and mine is definitely a model 162.

[stevesklar]

I've got an alto 8204xx Omega sitting here if you want pics.

here's a pic of one (not the one i mentioned above)
http://www.saxmaniax.com/Gallery/OmegaAlto.htm

[rmp]

I've got an alto 8204xx Omega sitting here if you want pics.



Hey, I know that one! Feel free to take/post any pictures Steve, even though I'm sure mine is far from the most beautiful example still out there -

Ryan

[EZ]

HOW STRANGE!

I'm servicing an alto Omega that's an 8204xx.

What a small world!

[DaveKessler]

Omega saxes are still offered by Selmer NEW. However, they are the same horn as the La Voix, just made in Brass and deluxe engraved up the body. Specifically, the new Omega's are the IDENTICAL sax to the Antigua Power Bell (same engraving pattern as well).

The Omega line is a "small dealer exclusive" line. Meaning that they are not offered on the internet or to larger dealers who are going to heavily discount them.

[rmp]

Steve and ez_sax are both talking about my early-mid 80s Selmer USA Pro "Omega" (mine is the Selmer model 162 8204XX alto).

I'm not sure how it ever got the "Omega" moniker, as the words Omega are not to be found on the horn anywhere.

The newer Omegas certainly are very different. Seems to me it's better off to refer to the old Selmer USA Pros simply as 162 or 164s. I have an old Selmer catalog at home from 1990 or so, I can scan it in and post it if anyone is interested.

Ryan

[honkytone]

Hmm...looks like one of the good ones just sold on eBay:

Selmer Alto Sax (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7421282710)

[rmp]

well, someone from Japan just bought one of ebay for $1450. Crikey.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7419527800

That's quite a range.

rmp

[semipro]

RMP,

I would like to see that brochure. I almost bought a Selmer Omega in 1988. The dealer told me it was identical to the Super Action just made in the USA.

[rmp]

I'll scan it in tonight or tomorrow and post it.

The Omega is not very similar to the SA 80-II - it's a much more simple, basic horn. I had one of each about two years ago, and I decided to keep my Omega and sell the SA80-II (it was my sisters, she didn't play anymore). The SA80-II was very different - clearly more powerful and focused than the Omega, but the Omega felt like home to me, so I kept it instead.

I sold that mint condition SA-II alto for $1500, which was likely WAY too low.

Ryan

[semipro]

rmp,

It was the original SA that I was told the Omega was equivalent to, not SA-II. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I bought a Yamaha 52 instead. At the time the ergonomics fit me better.

[rmp]

http://static.flickr.com/58/167715625_8e697d0227.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/73/167715628_343eeeb50e_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/66/167715630_41dba8a186_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/63/167715631_b7e68f6106_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/56/167715637_014b1b8432_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/47/167715638_c153725c51_b.jpg

If you want the full resolution scans, send me a pm and I'll email them to you.

(there is a Bundy/Signet page as well, which I omitted)

Ryan

[1saxman]

The 162 was never anything like any SA 80. Your music dealer or whatever was wrong, as are most of the comments here on the subject. The alto was advertised as the Omega by Selmer USA when it debuted around 1981, and was listed as the Model 162. The Selmer Paris alto of the time was the Model 52 and the tenor was 54. No Mk VI tooling was used, but Mk VI styling cues were plentiful, and that was obviously the target for this sax. I could scan the hang tag from mine which has 'Omega' and 'Model 162' and show you, maybe tomorrow. Neither 'Omega' nor 'Model 162' was anywhere on the sax. The tenor, Model 164 came out in a couple years and the Mk VI looks were there (the tenor was NOT called the 'Omega'). One big difference was the neck - it was like a SA 80, in the high-arch profile rather than like the Mk VI. All altos and tenors have high F#. I am not certain about how high the numbers went before the change to AS and TS. You have examples of both on both sides of the line; TS100s with serial numbers in the 828xxxs as well as the 1xxxxxx numbers. What I go by is the shape of the RH petals for C and D#, and the lacquer color. Gold lacquer with petals like the Mk VI are 162/164. 'Clear' lacquer and SA 80 petals are AS/TS. The original 'Omega' alto can be told not only by the low serial number (821xxx-822xxx) but also by the Mk VI-style plain bar for the high F#. All later horns had the oval pearl for F# which I always thought was a unique and beautiful touch. Also, all 162s and 164s have a round pearl for high F. AS and TS have the SA 80 teardrop. In addition to my Omega alto, I now have a later 164 tenor that I use with a Mk VI replacement neck. This is a very powerful set-up and suits my R&B gigs to a tee. The only thing wrong with the tenor is it has a slighly weak D. I really haven't looked at it to check for leaks/heights/spring tensions that might affect the D. It really doesn't bother me and I don't think about it when playing (and I don't vent it either). On the alto, I cut about 1/4" off the neck, and I still push the mouthpiece pretty far on the cork. I actually played it for years with a Mk VI neck but eventually went back to the cut-down neck. Anyway, that's my take on the most misunderstood saxes ever made. They were not perfect, but had a lot of soul compared to what you get today, particularly from Asia.

[rmp]

The original 'Omega' alto can be told not only by the low serial number (821xxx-822xxx) but also by the Mk VI-style plain bar for the high F#. All later horns had the oval pearl for F# which I always thought was a unique and beautiful touch.

One minor correction, the early Omega alto serial numbers start a bit lower (my early Omega horn has the Mark VI-style plain bar F# key) and is 820xxx. I knew a few people who bought the later Omegas and I can confirm the F# key change to the oval pearl.

rmp

[stevesklar]

for those with better knowledge than myself (which is alot of you) ..... a tenor with a SN of 830xxx .. would this be a TS-100 or a later model ?

It has the engravings and oval high F# pearl, Selmer (C) USA engraved on the bell - just like the other pics.

Is this serial number out of the range of the "Omegas/TS-100" ??

Did selmer still make "TS100"s into 2001 ?? (per some retail store that was trying to sell one)

[stevesklar]

duh .. 1 saxman has all the info up above ... i just had to read it 3 times !!

[lehtonale]

I have AS-100, which I bought in 1990 in NYC. That time was a rumor, that some parts of this model were manufactured according to Selmer Mark VI. Do you have any idea about that. Anyway I like my AS-100 and I use it still on the gigs.

[bruce bailey]

I worked trade shows for flute companies and at the time the Mark VII came out, they started the AS-100. The guys at Selmer claimed it was the VI tooling but I have nothing other than this to confirm. A nice playing horn and at the time it was about 60% of the VII price.

[lehtonale]

Dear RPM,

Would be interesting to get this material to my email.
Best Regards
Lehtonale

[sonnymobleytrane]

Taiwan made
Dave

I dont believe these horns were made in Taiwan. I think they were made in Elkhardt,Indiana as a less expensive alternative to the French made super action 80. I remember the ads at the time (mid 1980's) with Richie Cole endorsing these

[semipro]

Yeah they were USA made I remember thinking I liked the idea of it being a US made horn BETTER than France.

[Redwood_Lenny]

I have an early USA (Omega) SN: 8200xx. I'm the original owner and I will be this horn's last owner. :D

I love the sound and feel of this horn. The sound is very solid at the core and the horn plays well into the altissimo range. I think that some of these horns were extremely good values. I don't know how they stack up against the "big boys", but for the money...

[Stacey]

Steve and ez_sax are both talking about my early-mid 80s Selmer USA Pro "Omega" (mine is the Selmer model 162 8204XX alto).

I'm not sure how it ever got the "Omega" moniker, as the words Omega are not to be found on the horn anywhere.

Ryan

Ryan,

I don't know HOW it got that name, but I do know that even back at the time (early 80s) they had the moniker Omega, whether it appeared on the horn or not. I remember back in the very early 80s when I was shopping for a new horn (I ended up with a new MK7), I also had a subscription to Downbeat magazine, and there was often an ad featuring Ritchie Cole pitching the Selmer Omega (described as the Omega in the ad).

Stacey

[stevesklar]

I have AS-100, which I bought in 1990 in NYC. That time was a rumor, that some parts of this model were manufactured according to Selmer Mark VI. Do you have any idea about that. Anyway I like my AS-100 and I use it still on the gigs.

I don't know if they used the "tooling", I thought it was a copy. BUT if you ever need new parts for your VI or VII the AS/TS-100 parts are a good cheap alternative (some minor modifications may be needed). Selmer USA stopped production of that model about 5 years ago.

[hodges1]

I have one of the 100s. I think each person's opinion will vary. I think they stand very substantial ground with the top models out there. I have been doing a comparison over the past few months between this and a 62 and have had some interesting results. I actually like the sound of the 100 better, even though the mechanics may be a little slower. I have had a very difficult time deciding which one to keep. I can live with mechanics being a little slower. I have leaned towards possibly parting with the 62 because sound is more important to me than speed of action. I can adjust my fingers easily to move faster. I did a poll and the majority seemed to dis-agree with me. I spend 90% of my time with the 100 and 10% of my time now with the 62 and an getting a superior sound out of the 100. If I asked a group of people I may get different responses.

[saxandstrings86]

Sorry for my two cents, but I jsut want to point out how confusing the Selmer USA lines can get at times...almost like Yamaha and the occasional changes to models or serial numbers.

I've got a Bach Omega trumpet that belonged to a friend of mine, and I've taken some time to see the differences between that and the Bach Strad 180s trumpet (stay with me for a sec, I promise)

Same #37 bell flair and lead pipe (or at least very similar), valve casings of the TR-200 int. model, and no extra bracings on the tuning slide/lead pipe. Many high end features, such as the third valve slide ring, the trim pieces, first valve saddle, silver plate, all of which are standard on the TR-180s (intro pro line).

Basically, it's an intermediate horn, with pro features, but more durable. It was built in 1994 (from what I can gather), and Bach only used the Omega name for a few years with these horns, and a trombone (similar to the Bach Strad 36B). I'm thinking that for a while, the woodwinds were probably the same boat, compared to some pro Selmer USA horn, but they've used it in enough contexts to jsut be confusing now...kinda like the Selmer/Bach 'Soloist' Model horns a couple of years back.

[lehtonale]

No, no, no. 'Omega' is a new Selmer USA line with no connection to the Model 162 'Omega' alto sax of 1980 (which was a heck of a sax). Those altos did not have 'Omega' or Model 162 on them anywhere - just Selmer USA. The tenor which came out a couple years later was the Model 164. Serial numbers for these are in the 820xxx to 823xxx range. The horns were eventually called the 100 series (AS100, TS100). These numbers go higher, but still in the 82xxxx range. All of these Elkhart-made saxes are decent horns, with build quality getting worse as you go up. The first ones (like my 821009 alto) were all hand-soldered like the Paris horns. Later, they used induction-soldering, and sometimes the key fitments aren't that precise - like a side key cup will just barely cover the tone hole, for example. You will find some nice examples on ebay from time to time for really good prices if you need a back-up sax that looks and feels like a Mk VI.

You know the history of AS-100 and AS-110. My altos manufacturing number is 825xxx. Is it 100 or 110? Thank you.

[ShedShark]

825xxx is the early Selmer usa. It's a 162 and a much higher quality than the later ones (1,xxx,xxx series).