virgin bari player

[saxbruce]

I've had my Yani 901 for a couple of days now, and despite the fact that I have played the other saxes for about 15 years I am still a newcomer to the baritone. So, here are my discoveries! Not new, but I would appreciate any comments. Simply put, more breathing input is required, not quite like personally blowing up a camp-bed/temporary mattress, but close. Is that normal? Do I need to join a gym? Not noticable much with my other saxes! My standard Yanigasawa ebonite 5 mouthpiece gives an acceptable warm, full, slightly retro tone, but I need to find an edgier, more focussed tone, so that I can be a band player and a soloist as well in the band. Any suggestions? Also is it too camp to use a harness rather than the standard noose as supplied?

[CircaRevival]

Hello again saxbruce,

Your air problem will go away with practice. When I started clarinet(about a month ago) I had the same problem. I'm pretty sure this is something you need to get used to with time.

With straps use whatever is comfortable. I would recommend the Oleg ergonomic or Protec.

Good luck!
CR

[saxmanglen]

If you want a slightly edgier sound you may try a Plasticover reed ,on the Yani stock piece, if your not using one now. I find I usually like to play 1/2 strength stiffer reed with Plasticovers than I do with true cane reeds. Take this FWIW based on my experience on Tenor not Bari.

Glen

[Brendan Muse]

If you want to look cool, use the neckstrap. Or get one that won't gouge into your neck, that's your call.

But if you want to be able to lift your head up in 20 years, go with a harness, at least when you play standing up.

[shmuelyosef]

I highly recommend the Gemini sax harness (http://www.studiospace.com/rcsq/harness.htm). Best rig I've ever used...doesn't need to be dragged over your head to go on, and you can make subtle adjustments to the horn 'hang height' while the horn is hanging (love alliteration).

[retread]

A BG shoulder strap works fine for me, and they're not as confining as a harness. As far as breathing...don't pass up any chances and inhale deeply from the diaphram. If you get a four bar low B you're allowed to swear at the arranger.

[saxbruce]

Thanks guys for the advice. The wealth of knowledge is appreciated. I am currently working on that, so already I know that I should work harder at simply blowing the instrument, getting used to its demands, breathing deeply when given the opportunity in the arrangement. (4 bars of bottom A is a not a bad target at the moment)!. I have decided to buy a Saxrax adjustable bari stand with a normal sling to see what happens, and possibly buy a halter arrangement as suggested by a couple of guys as a better option when standing up to play.I have a friend who has a near-death Conn? stencil bari who is giving me a Lawton 6* mouthpiece to try out, so that COULD be an answer to my question about 'tone'.
Cheers.

[JimMetcalf]

That Lawton 6* will open a whole new dimension in your bari! I play a Lawton 6*BB and my bari requires not much more air than my tenor! Buy it if you can--they are getting scarce!

[saxfreak]

If you can buy the Lawton mouthpiece you should not miss the opportunity. These are great mouthpieces and are becoming hard to find, as mentioned above. I second the recommendation for a harness instead of a neck strap. It is so much more comfortable.
When I bought my B901 I had some problems initially with the notes cracking when I played the D and E just over the break. After a while that problem cleared up, when I got used to how to blow those notes. Also, you'll get used to the amount of air required once you've played bari for a while. It sounds like you're on the right track. Have fun!

[Brendan Muse]

If you can find a community band to play bari in, you should join it. It will save you lots of long-tone time.

[gingerjen]

I'll go along with what the other guys have said - don't do it on a neck strap, you'll be crippled. A shoulder strap or a harness is fine, and if you're worried about it not looking "cool", wear the harness under a button down shirt, and poke the clip out between buttons - looks like you're playing without any kind of sling!!!!

as for getting the sound/air sorted, definitely get in a community band, any band - just play lots. And for mouthpieces, I have Selmer E for straight stuff (can push it to quite a loud, edgy sound from a pure classical) and a metal Link 8 (it's BIG)....

have fun.

Jen

[saxbruce]

Hi guys,
I wondered if anyone was still interested in my further adventures (after two months), with my first-ever bari sax, and the discoveries I've made.... I'm going to tell you anyway! I've listened (naturally) to all of the excellent advice given, and this is the current situation:-

The first great thing I've done is to buy a Saxrax adjustable bari stand. What a wonderful device;- stable, smart, superb design, with loads of accessories and possibilities. Expensive, yes, but you know that quality costs... (This is NOT product placement)!!!!

I am definitely buying a harness for the big brute, (thanks Gingerjen and others) for the advice, and as soon as the next months pay cheque arrives....thats the next step forward.

I am going to stick with the standard mouthpiece!!! Shock, horror! It plays more easily and consistently for me than the others I've tried, including the Lawton. (grade 3 reed).

Other slight drawbacks: - because I have small hands, I sometimes get a 'squeal' because I accidentally touch the left hand palm keys whilst playing when I should'nt be doing that. So I have to be conscious of NOT doing that. On my Keilwerth tenor, these keys are adjustable for hight and rake, not at all a bad idea!

I do play the bari sometimes in one of the bands I'm in, and am getting better in regard of the breath needed to sustain the longer, low notes, and I'm also aware that in quite a lot of the more modern big band arrangements how much the low A is called for. (Not a problem on the Yani 901).

I have'nt yet found an altissimo chart for the baritone. Any good suggestions?

Lastly, and this might sound just lame or daft, I don't know how to clean the sax properly immediately after having played it. I did discover (accidentally) the vent key and am used to the ensuing deluge, (well, the puddle), but what else can a bari player do to effect a quick sanitary fix?

Thanks for looking.

[Michael Ward]

The best you can do to swab it is get a bari silk snake. I got mine from Weiner Music. Yamaha make one too. Just stick it down the neck and it'll absorb most of the moisture. You could dry off the pad on the draining hole too with a swab. using a pull through ( they are made) is a logistical nightmare getting past all the bends and you will be disappointed in what emerges ( very little).
Incidentally if you get a BG harness which are almost essential for prolonged baritone playing try and get one with a plastic coated metal hook . BG don't recommend the plastic swivel for Bari ( for obvious reasons) and say so in their literature but they don't import the metal hook version to the UK which is crazy. I had to contact BG in France and import one through Yamaha. I didn't fancy my Mark V1 crashing to the floor so best be safe. Other than that get the shoulder sling with a metal hook.

[Scott Tringali]

Cleaning: best bet is a Hodge baritone sax swab. It's the only thing that will actually clean the pigtail. Downside is that it will fall apart in about 2 years of constant use. I'm on my... third?? fourth?? already.

I also carry a clean cloth diaper for the spit valve. Jam it in there, and let it sit on the stand on break. It will pull a lot of the moisture out.

My bari setup (.120/1 Berg with 2.5 reeds) actually takes less air than my tenor setup -- I can hold out a low A for a good 8 bars at fff with plently left over. With my old C** and harder reeds, I'd be dying by the 3rd bar. (As an arranger, I write these for myself and don't swear.)

[Michael Ward]

Scott you must lift weights!! Did you ever get the Hodge stuck in the goose neck? I have one but after the first go I forgot it and used the snake.

[saxbruce]

Not sure if anyone is still listening, but this is still a voyage of discovery....

Two lingering problems, as a bari player:-

I think that the the harnesses provided are crap! No, I have not done an exhaustive survey, but I did accept a general opinion and bought a brand 'x' version. It is overly complicated to put on, and I don't want to liken it to a certain practice..... but! Is there not an inventor out there who can design something more user-freindly? (Sax-Rax have done their thing with a bari stand).

Other gripe:- have played quite a few solos now, but one bari against the rest of the band when they have a few points to prove (or don't observe notation, such as m.p.), what does a bari player have to do to subdue the volume of the ordinary folk?
Amplification in the band that I play in is in its infancy.

[Dr_sax]

For the strap a recommend the spinestrap. I got mine quite a while ago for my tenor and never used it till now when I got a bari. I takes all the weight fom the neck. I can play for a long time now. See http://www.wittman-spins.com/spinstraps.html

[hgrail]

I bought one of these straps. Price was right and more comfortable for bari and tenor than my $60 Oleg.
John
http://cgi.ebay.com/White-Neck-strap-harness-for-Sax-padded-alto-tenor-bari_W0QQitemZ7386152886QQcategoryZ38112QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

[Brendan Muse]

This harness (http://www.wwbw.com/Oleg-Ergonomic-Sax-Strap-or-Harness-i84845.music) is amazing. Amazingly amazing. Give it a try. If you want pictures, I can take them.

[gspiegel]

The Neotech is very comfortable, with big closed-cell foam pads. (Don't get the one with the plastic hook though.)

Glenn

[Scott Tringali]

Scott you must lift weights!! Did you ever get the Hodge stuck in the goose neck? I have one but after the first go I forgot it and used the snake.

My gym days are long gone!

It's all about lung capacity, but also, for lack of better words, efficiency. It's possible to blow in a manner that wastes lots of air. I don't know exactly what it is, but it's all about proper support and muscle control, not strength. Playing a lot of flute has made a difference! With flute, you have no resistance, so it's all up to you about having the right muscle control. It's not about strength, but being keenly aware of your muscles and how to control them.

Never had the Hodge swab stuck in the neck. It doesn't have to go in far. In fact, I have trouble putting it in all the way. After about 2/3 the length you really need to jam it.

I found a way to resuscitate a broken one, though. Take the wire that runs the length, and clip a few inches off it. It's too long and will poke out the ends.

[Pinnman]

I use the BG across the shoulder strap and find it quite comfortable, standing or sitting. No harnesses for me, thanks; I've got my image to think about!

Theo Wanne rates the Yani stock mpc as the best current production item for bari (he may be referring specifically to a 7 opening). Many would think this a good endorsement.

Compete with tenor and alto soloists? - not on your life! I play my solos as for a bari on its own terms.

As for those four bars of low Bb (or the eight!), I don't have enough puff left to curse; I just take it on the chin.

[Dr_sax]

So, for me the mouthpiece-search is over(at least for this week:shock: ). I have a berg larson HR 120/1 for the soft stuff and a ponzol custom for the loud and funky stuff. Both with rico plasticover 2.5 or ponzol 3 reeds. Plus a backup metalite m7. All 3 sound great on my yanagisawa b992.

[Brendan Muse]

The key to playing over the rest of the band is good air and concentration. It's not hard if you know how to do it. If it's practical, see about joining a marching band with a bari and making yourself heard.

If not, repeated kicks to the shins will aid you immensely. ;)

[MrJones74]

If you are interested in a comprehensive breathing method which, IMHO, works, check out "The Breathing Gym" by Sam Pilafian and Patrick Sheridan (both amazing tuba players). You can purchase the book and the DVD/VHS at http://focusonex.com.

Happy blowing!:hello2: