Chops???

[Greyduster]

Help!!

I'm relatively new at playing the sax. I keep reading references to 'chops'.

What are they please.

I'm a juggler too and chops are a juggling move. Something tells me they're not the same thing at all.

Greyduster

[JL]

"Chops" means ability, but is a more colorful term.

I also juggle, but so far I can't juggle more than three items.....so my juggling "chops" have a ways to go.

[Greyduster]

JL

Thanks a bunch mate. I had a feeling it might have something to do with a firm embouchure. I'm so glad I'm wrong.

GD

[retread]

Also used to refer to embouchure, especially used by brass players.

[Greyduster]

Synchronicity?

After work on Friday I nipped into Kirkby Lonsdale. The bookshop had a copy of Ward and Burns 'JAZZ' for half price, so I bought it.
I nipped into a teashop for a cup of tea and a toasted teacake, (raspberry jam extra), opened my new purchase and these were the first two sentences I read.
Re. Louis Armstrong

'Fans and fellow musicians alike began to began to copy his distinctive vocabulary too. He was the first to refer to a musician's skills as his "chops", the first to call people "cats" '.

I enjoyed the TV series but I really don't know how accurate Mr Burns might be on this kind of detail.

Any observations from you cats?

[Big Jim]

It is my understanding that Chops refer to licks, riffs and or the way you improvise. Getting you chops back (to me) means being able to play the way you used to. At least this is what it means in Pasadena Texas talk..
haha.. :wink:
Regards,
Big Jim

[bari_sax_diva]

In my circle, "chops" seems to refer to technique in general. That is, improvisation, tone, facility, etc. You know... all that stuff I should be WAY better at <sigh>.

Later,
Leanne

[JL]

Well, I used the term "ability" generically, refering to all the techniques that are used to give you a good sound, including embouchure, phrasing, improvisation, the whole package. Anyhow that's what "chops" always meant to me.

[Tom Goodrick]

As a trumpet and trombone player as well as a tenor sax player, I can say that the primary meaning of "chops" is embouchure. With trumpet and trombone, the lips are the only mechanism for generating sound so they are the dominant feature in any technique you may develop. With a sax, you just have to hold onto the mouthpiece with your lips and maybe add some pressure to the reed. But the reed makes the sound and will make it all night no matter how hard you play. There comes a time in the night when a trumpet player's lips won't make much sound any more. That's when your chops are 'gone.' It does take time to develop the proper embouchure for sax. But the sound depends heavily on the mouthpiece, reed and ligature with a lesser dependence on the mouth. The mouth forms a sound chamber and seals against air leaks.

[Les22]

The other day, the steel drummer in our band said he needed to work on his chops!

[larry]

I've generally heard "chops" as meaning "ability". I've even heard it used in non-jazz situations such as "Programming chops" but usually by musicians.

[synchro]

The way I understand chops is ones ability to play at their top level for a given amount of time.
ie; my chops aren't there yet to play a 3+ hour gig. Or, you need to build up your chops so you can practice for more than 30 minutes and still make good sounds.

[Billy The Fish]

"Chops" is a reference to general technique. It is a very common term in wide musical circles, not just for wind and brass players. It is most certainly not limited to referring to one's embouchure (at least not any more). As a guitar and piano player for 20 years before I set sight on a saxophone (or any other instrument that involves putting something in my mouth other than beer) "working on your chops" was the phrase used to describe working on my technique, full stop (and was also the case for my bass player who would not have known what an embouchure was if it jumped up and bit him !). Basically, every guitarist I knew used the term at some point or other, and I don't think many of them put their guitars in their mouths (the bass player, possibly. He wasn't very bright :D )

But.....those that described it as just a reference to "embouchure" are right too, at least historically :wink: . The background to the term is definitely a description for one's embouchure. To quote musicologist, Michael Hamad:

The earliest use of the word "chops" in literature, according to Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, dates back to 1589. For that distant author, now long deceased, chops meant the fleshy covering of the jaws, as in "a dog licks its chops."

In the jazz age, "chops" was slang for embouchure of a musician. Working on one's "chops," then, meant working on the technique of one's "chops," or mouth.

Since then, the term has been broadly used to denote the technical facility of a musical performer.

For rock musicians, "chops," continues to refer to facility in one's musical technique. Yet another usage appears to have emerged out of the rock community: a "chop" (singular) can also refer to a musical figure (or a "lick") that is physically difficult and therefore require years of practice. A rocker who is "working on his/her chops," then, in addition to working on his/her general technique, is practicing specific "licks."

When I was fourteen, I honed my chops on Led Zeppelin's "Black Dog."

For rock musicians, the point of practicing your chops is to get them so engrained in your muscle memory that your can recall them without thought, so that when you are "jamming" at high intensity you will not be hindered by the constraints of your digits. This practice extends back to the heyday of the virtuoso in the nineteenth century, if not farther into the distant musical past.

Hope this clarifies, and confirms that you were all right :D

Billy The Fish

[ajcurtis]

Billy thanks for that explanation.

P.S I like my chops grilled. :D
ajc

[mahill2006]

I asked my assistant band director that once...he told us that your chops are whatever you use to play your instrument. For example, for wind players, it is your lips, and for drummers (notice I say drummers, bc I have yet to find a decent percussionist) it is their arms/hands.

[jazzbluescat]

Billy thanks for that explanation.
P.S I like my chops grilled. :D
ajc

You beat me to it, ajcurtis.

chops conjures up thoughts of mashed 'taters, gravy and apple sauce.
yum, yum

[hannibal]

"Yet another usage appears to have emerged out of the rock community: a "chop" (singular) can also refer to a musical figure (or a "lick") that is physically difficult and therefore require years of practice. A rocker who is "working on his/her chops," then, in addition to working on his/her general technique, is practicing specific "licks."

How is this definition different from a musician's 'bag'; ie, 'he's got a deep bag' or whatever?

I thought chops were physical attributes (embouchure, technique, etc) and someone's bag referred to their riffs, quotes, altissimo, growls, etc.

Am I way off base?

[Billy The Fish]

You understanding is pretty same as mine Hannibal. In the context referred to by the Musicologist I quoted, it is only the technical / physical element of a lick / riff that is referred to as a "chop", not the stylistic element. "Working one one's chops" in that context is a distinct reference to developing the physical skill required to perform such a lick, not a comment on the nature of the lick itself.

For example, your altissimo technique would be a part of your "chops". Your use of altissimo would be part of your "bag" (not a term I would use, but I recognise it). Similarly, your ability to perform licks would be part of your "chops", whereas your use of licks would be part of your "bag".

That is now probably as clear as mud :D

.....................Then again, it strikes me that we may all be trying to overthink this :dazed:

Billy The Fish

[hannibal]

Crystal clear, Billy.

"Then again, it strikes me that we may all be trying to overthink this "

Yah, probably.

I seem to be (inadvertantly) cultivating a skill at killing stone dead otherwise interesting threads.

[steve]

"Chops" is what my wife does at the mall while I'm in my blues "bag" with our band. I have always though a "bag" was what a musician was "in to"...ie., the musical genre he/she likes. As in "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag" (Don't mind me...too much coffee this morning)

[hornstar]

I found perverse amusement in someone using the name Hannibal talking about chops :lol:

[top_gun25]

IN the music circles round here CHOPS refers exclusivlys to the ability to CONTINUE playing. how tired your mouth is for brass. tounge splinters for reeds(they HURT!) if your chops are fine you are good to play. if your chops are not you need a break. CHOPS= MOUTH/LIPS+Abilty*SKILL

[JimD]

I've always thought that "chops" was a kind of "square" expression. I like my lamb chops done on the George Frasier lean machine.

[top_gun25]

i like CHOPS on a charcol grill with BBQ sauce!

[singlereed]

I think I read that Louis Armstrong first referred to his 'chops' as his technique. He also used the term for his mouth, as indeed we do round here, square or not. Guitarists use the term too, and of course it has nothing to do with the mouth, at least for most guitarists......

[michaelbaird]

For rock musicians, the point of practicing your chops is to get them so engrained in your muscle memory that your can recall them without thought, so that when you are "jamming" at high intensity you will not be hindered by the constraints of your digits. This practice extends back to the heyday of the virtuoso in the nineteenth century, if not farther into the distant musical past.

I couldn't have said this better. This applies to playing any instrument any style of music. Learned behavior! Like driving a car.