Eppelsheim Bass?

[TenTenTooter]

I've seen them mentioned a few times, but haven't been able to find any real info on the Eppelsheim bass sax. Could anyone give me some info on this bass?

Thanks.

[HC]

I don't recall them making a bass sax, but making an EEb and BBb Tubax. The EEb tubax is pitched the same as a contrabass saxophone (octive below bari) but coiled over so it is still in a reasonable size. The BBb Tubax is an octive below bass sax.
www.jayeaston.com has a more info on these, including soundclips.

[TenTenTooter]

No, I'm not talking about the Tubax. I've seen a few people in these forms mention an Eppelsheim Bass sax (one of which was the guy from saxpics I believe) and through my searches I've found pictures, but no written info about the horn. Also, I know for a fact that they do make a Bass because a month ago I e-mail'd Mr. Eppelsheim about pricing for the Tubax and Soprillo saxes, and in his response he mentioned that they develped a Bass that wasn't added to his website yet.

[saxtek]

The Eppelsheim Bb bass saxophone is in production now. It has keys from low Bb to high F#, three independent automatic octave keys (not two), and an extra altissimo octave "valve" on the neck that is operated by a second octave lever.

The new bass has a large bore and large 10" bell like the old Conns, and requires a mouthpiece with a larger backbore. The largest key cups are enormous. The neck is a work of art.

All keys on the bell section are entirely mounted on the bell, so if the horn is ever bumped, the bell keys stay in adjustment.

It comes with a flight case or a new hightech compact case which will be available soon. Since the bottom bow of the Eppelsheim is quite different from any other bass, I don't think the case will fit other bass saxes.

Mouthpieces are made by Zinner in a wide variety of chambers and facings.

Benedikt Eppelsheim sent me some photos of the new bass, but he plans to update his website soon. It's only fair that I let him be the first to break out the publicity photos.

Price depends a lot on the dollar/Euro exchange rate, which is finally going in our favor right now. Cost should be competitive with Selmer and Keilwerth bass saxes.

Benedikt Eppelsheim's website for the Tubax and the Soprillo is:

http://eppelsheim.com/eppelsheim-blasinstrumente.html

Watch it for the introduction of the new bass sax. He will also soon post new audio clips of his instruments featuring Jay Easton, the Cologne Saxophone Quintet, and me, along with other Eppelsheim artists.

[HC]

Thanks for the info. This seems really interest. Is it wound like a "tubax" or like a "normal" bass sax?

[saxtek]

The new Eppelsheim bass is a conventional saxophone, with a normal saxophone shape and normal wide saxophone bore. It sounds like a conventional bass sax. Except for the improved octave mechanism and some other advances in keywork, it is not like the Tubax at all.

[Flower Power]

I saw a picture of the Eppelsheim Bass Sax in the German magazine "sonic".
It was in the issue may/june 2003, so the photo taken may be out date.
For those who might be interested in reading the German article (pdf):
Eppelsheim Bass Sax (German) (http://klaus-dapper.de/artikel/sonic/2003_3_44_basssax.pdf)

The most important information for me:
According to Mr. Eppelsheim, all bass saxophones on the market today suffer from tone holes that are to small for the low notes. And the manufacturers of pads delivered sizes up to 75mm in diameter only, so the cup size was limited by the bass sax manufacturers to avoid problems getting bigger pads.

And and at the end of the article:
"The Eppelsheim bass sax is fascinating. Due to the bigger bore, it has a big and mellow bass sound. The increased air consumption needs getting used to."

(Please apologize my limited knowledge of the English language. I'm German.)

So at least this photo was already published, and I'm looking forward to the update of Mr. Eppelsheim's home page!

Greetings from Germany (home of the tubax ... hehe)
Roland

[Steve P]

Hey friends,
In talking with Jay Easton a few months ago, I found out some interesting info on Bass Sax in general, and the Eppelsheim Bass.

If you were to play the current selmer bass, and try an overtone series on low Bb, you would find that you can produce the octave, but not the fifth. These current basses are missing that overtone, which then makes problems in the altissimo register. For this reason, Jay is going to add a third octave vent on the neck of his Selmer Bass, after Eppelsheim gave him all the calculations for where it should go.

Having played the Sub Contrabass in production, I have to say I am VERY impressed by this mans work. He is a genius in my opinion. When he made the prototype for the Sub Contra, it was perfect. He did all the calculations on tonehole placement etc first, out on paper, and when he built it there were no problems at all. That is amazing! And his third 'altissimo' octave vent is great as well. Easy to use, easy to incorporate, and it sounds great!

Also, I have heard that He is going to reproduce the Conn-O-Sax... but when asked about that, he replied with a smile ' I dont like to talk about unfinished projects'

All in all, he has given the saxophone world a lot already, and I think we can expect great things from him in the future.

Cheers
Steve P

[Biff]

This third Altissimo octave key sounds interesting. would it be possible to outfit one of those on, say, a bari sax? or would the neck size be too small and not have enough room for the octave key?

[saxtek]

The Eppelsheim altissimo valve is operated by a second octave lever located near the normal octave key. The lever is connected to the key on the neck near the mouthpiece by a cable device something like a bicycle brake cable. The mechanism is slightly visible in the photo on Flower Power's post above.

Yes, it is possible to add this key to another saxophone, just as Jay Easton is doing on his Selmer bass. On a baritone sax, the problem would be determining the proper location on the neck. On the bass saxophone, and even on the Tubax, the altissimo valve is located close to the mouthpiece.

On a baritone sax, the proper position might be on the corked part of the neck, making installation more difficult. The location of the normal upper octave key on Eppelsheim's Soprillo is on the mouthpiece itself. Benedikt Eppelsheim could answer your question better.

The most important improvement in the octave mechanism on the new bass is, in my opinion, the addition of the third automatic octave key (The altissimo valve actually makes FOUR octave keys altogether). The third octave key is not like the extra octave key on a Yamaha bari sax, which is really just 2 lower octave vents opening at the same time.

On Eppelsheim's Bass and Tubax, the upper register is divided into three parts, not two like on normal saxes, and each part of the upper register has its own octave key. Middle D has always been a problematic note on bass saxes because the lower octave vent is a compromise in its location. The new bass has the simplest and best solution to this problem.

[Steve P]

To add one to a bari might prove difficult, as saxtec mentioned. The positioning might be difficult. But, it would be worth looking into I think. Perhaps you should send Eppelsheim an email and ask him what he thinks. He is such a nice person, im sure he would be willing to offer some suggestions.

The Yamaha Bari octave vents are great in my opinion. I find the middle range of that horn (62) much easier to play. When Rousseau made this innovation, he wanted to also put it on the custom tenor. This would have eliminated that gurgling G we sometimes get on tenors, which is due to vent placement. But, Yamaha has always been weary of moving away from 'standard' construction, so they opted not to do it. But, Steve Goodson did it on his Unison horns. . .

Steve P

[Steve P]

To anyone who is interested, I have some great pics of the Eppelsheim Bass... Just got them, but dont ask me how :) Id be happy to send them to anyone.

Steve P

[Gandalfe]

Are the pictures good enough to go on the SOTW Calendar project of SaxPics?

[TenTenTooter]

Could you send them to me please?

m3ga_band_g33k@yahoo.com

Thanks!

[Flower Power]

Yes, I would like to see the pictures, too!

My mail: roland.kramer@gmx.de

Thanks in advance!
Flower Power

[Steve P]

Its really a beautiful instrument. Much more reminiscent of the original Adolph Sax Bass than the other current production models... and since it is an Eppelsheim, you know its pretty close to perfect. He is a genius.

Check your respective email accounts this evening, I will send them when I get off work.

Best,
Steve P

[saxtek]

I just received my new Eppelsheim bass saxophone, and I want to correct some comments I posted earlier.

First, the new Eppelsheim bass has a double automatic octave mechanism, not a triple as I stated earlier. The triple octave mechanism is only on the Tubax. The double automatic octave key is the "normal" octave mechanism found on most saxophones. The mechanical linkage on the Eppelsheim is unique, but the octave keys are standard. Benedikt Eppelsheim has improved the response of middle D, however, even with the standard octave mechanism.

The new bass can be made with the extra altissimo octave valve, which works independently of the other octave mechanism. The altissimo valve can be disabled in a few seconds without tools. I chose to have the altissimo valve installed because there is no advantage to leaving it off.

The bore of the new bass, at least at the beginning, is enormous. The inner diameter of the neck opening is .635". Compare that measurement with the large bore vintage Conn neck, which is around .560". The sound of the Eppelsheim bass will never be mistaken for a baritone saxophone.

Intonation is very good everywhere, the best I have seen on any bass. More importantly, the tone quality (timbre) is very even throughout the range. All notes, including alternate fingerings, speak clearly. There are no bad notes. Keyed range is low Bb to high F# three ledger lines above the staff.

The Zinner bass mouthpieces supplied with the Eppelsheim can use either bass or baritone saxophone reeds. I'm still deciding what to use, and depending on the musical environment, it may be both.

The largest keys (low B & Bb) are almost 3.75" in diameter, yet the keywork is fast and comfortable.

[bariman]

Steve P: Would you mind sending those pics to me? Email: eb12m%yahoo.com, replace the % with an @.

Thanks,
Bariman

[okami]

@saxtek: How much did you pay for it? I am really looking forward for a modern bass-sax that plays well, but I am not a millionaire ;)

[saxtek]

The Eppelsheim bass is 12,500 Euros, plus shipping, duty, customs broker fees, and local delivery. I have not yet been billed for the extra fees. Benedikt ships in a heavy wooden box, so shipping is not cheap, but the horn arrives safely.

[bariman]

::cringe::

Bariman

[saxtek]

Photo finally available. Check it out.

http://members.aol.com/saxtek/MVC-012S.jpg

[Flower Power]

Cool! I must have an Eppelsheim Bass ... :-)

Well, I promised my wife not to acquire any horn before my 50th birthday.
10 years to go ...

Too bad there are no samples or pictures on www.eppelsheim.com yet.

Greetings form Germany
Flower Power

[Mike Ruhl]

Can that thing be played while standing up?

Thinking of the old Bill Cosby "Dentist" routine...

[saxtek]

I often play it standing up. It's heavy (20 pounds), but it hangs comfortably with a triple strap ring. I use a bass drum harness.

[Mike Ruhl]

Just out of curiousity, what's the chamber design of the Zinner mouthpiece? Did they use a round chamber, or square/straight sidewalls?

[saxtek]

There are 4 mouthpiece designs.
1. Very large round chamber, low baffle
2. Large round chamber, moderate rollover baffle
3. Large round chamber, higher rollover baffle
4. Squared chamber with step baffle

[Mike Ruhl]

What?!? No 0-baffle bullet chamber? :lol:

What kind of tip openings do they come in?

[saxtek]

Facings 6 through 9. Fairly similar to Otto Link numbers. I haven't measured the tips.

[Mike Ruhl]

Any sound files available?

[Chizzy]

Going to be avliable in the UK soon (from a shop I mean):
http://www.saxophones.co.uk/soprillo.htm

Look at the bottom of the page beneath the soprillo info.

[Brendan Muse]

Someone should suggest to Mr. Eppelsheim that he make these beasts with silver plate.:twisted:

This is not a mere instrument. It is a monument of the synthesis of art and science.

I want it.

[Super 20 Player]

Someone should suggest to Mr. Eppelsheim that he make these beasts with silver plate.:twisted:At least get that crazy neck silver-plated. :king: :D

I want it.Me too. :yikes!:

[saxtek]

When I ordered my bass, Benedikt Eppelsheim offered a choice of finishes. I would not be surprised if silver plate is available.

[Brendan Muse]

Well, I've got five years to start working for it without having to support myself. :headbang:

[TenTenTooter]

Does anyone know if there are any recordings of it around?

[Gandalfe]

http://www.contrabass.com/sounds/Stardust.mp3

[TenTenTooter]

Isn't that the Tubax? I was talking about recordings of the Bass.

[saxtek]

Gandalfe's post was me on Tubax. I have no Eppelsheim bass recordings yet, but I will soon.

[Gandalfe]

Oops, you are correct. I haven't found a soundbite for this baby:

http://www.jayeaston.com/images/Eppelsheim%20bassax.jpg

[dougal]

Just back from the Edinburgh Fringe with the National Sax Choir. Benedikt very kindly loaned us a bass for the week, and it is gorgeous. I'm a tenor player, and have never tried a bass before but even on first blow it just blew effortlessly through the whole range. Ben, our regular bass player adored it - the compact design made it easy to walk and see where you are going, although in fairness, I guess most bass players don't have to worry about such things :)

One of the big strengths was the ease of control when playing quietly. In the choir, blend is obviously very important, and the bass and tubax together just gave the most awesome velvety texture.

All we need now is for a generous benefactor to donate one to us.... <sigh>

[saxtek]

Benedikt Eppelsheim is now making another neck for his new bass saxophone. This alternative neck has a smaller diameter at the neck cork, and it can accept a baritone saxophone mouthpiece or a bass saxophone mouthpiece with a smaller backbore.
The availability of the new neck vastly increases the possible choices of mouthpieces.
The appearance of the neck is almost identical to the standard neck, and it is available with the special altissimo valve.

[Mike Ruhl]

Genius.

[Zoot Horn]

Gandalfe, I really have enjoyed that photo. I have it set as my wallpaper. I can stare at that thing for hours.

[Gandalfe]

If we start at the picture long enough, will we eventually get one? It is very hard to justify but nice to dream about. I'd be happy just playing one once. 8-)

[Mark]

It's a very nice looking bass, and I'd love to have one, but wouldn't you get more gigs if it had the low A? :D

Mark

[TenTenTooter]

Any recordings of the new bass yet?

[Jeff Flatt]

Crikey!!!! http://www.eppelsheim.com/bassax.php?lang=en Beautiful photos. These look so lovingly made. Dream.

[saxtek]

Everyone keeps asking me for a recording of the new Eppelsheim bass saxophone. I've been hurtin' for free time. so here's a quickie (in more ways than one). Click the link.

http://members.aol.com/saxtek/DonnaLee1.wma

I'm using the Zinner 6A, one of the stock mouthpieces available with the new bass, and Rico bass sax reeds. Some of the other stock mouthpieces are brighter and louder, but I like a bass saxophone sound that is definitely a bass, not a baritone.

[Jeff Flatt]

Yes, well: that's definitely a bass. Impressive!

[Randall]

Saxtek,
listened to Donna Lee...man that sounds an AWFUL lot like the Tubax, just higher!

[saxtek]

Actually the Eppelsheim bass is much, much darker than the Tubax and the sound is bigger. Bass saxophone has always been the hardest for me to capture on a recording. The Donna Lee clip was recorded completely flat with no reverb.

[Randall]

Saxtek,
got it....perhaps it was the recording only, but maybe what I am hearing is the Epplesheim "sound"?
I have listened to the Tubax quite a bit and your bass really did remind me of the Tubax.
You are so right about recording a bass- I have found it very hard in the past to do so, and now impossible ( don't have one!):)

Those Eppleshiem basses are very tempting indeed....if I were gonna splurge for a big horn, wondering which is the most usefull? I play bari a lot so the Eb aspect is attractive (especially when thinking about big band playing), but seeing how compact the bass is, makes me wonder if that wouldn't be the way to go...hmmm.....:?

Which do you enjoy the most and find to be most practical in terms of gigging?

[saxtek]

I have actually performed more on the bass saxophone, once a few weeks ago with a large orchestra, also a while back with a dixieland band and with another band doing early 20th century music. However I did play a solo feature on the Tubax very recently with a big band.
I'm sure there are more gigs available on bass sax. I'm a free lance player and I take calls for whatever they need.
There are no real jobs for Tubax or contrabass saxophone unless you create them, or unless you are Scott Robinson. However, the Tubax is very easy to play, probably easier than the conventional bass sax, and the Tubax is a fantastic instrument.

[saxtek]

Previously posted recording of Donna Lee on the Eppelsheim bass no longer works. Here's another version with better editing.

http://members.aol.com/saxtek/DonnaLee.wma

These compressed files don't really capture the depth of the sound. The keywork is extremely fast, and you don't have to use alternate fingerings (side C) like on the old Conns. With the special neck that uses a baritone sax mouthpiece, it's the loudest bass in the world. This is the standard neck for bass sax mouthpiece.

[acti0n_jacks0n]

I just realized, how do you take the neck off that thing, if at all? Heh, that must be some case to lug around if the neck isn't removable.

[Gandalfe]

Look at the picture I attached below. The screw is clearly visable at the place where the neck crosses itself (kinda like in the middle of a figure 8).I just realized, how do you take the neck off that thing, if at all? Heh, that must be some case to lug around if the neck isn't removable.

[Single_Reed]

That's a nice sax, but I like the look of the vintage basses better, that neck just looks awkward

[Gandalfe]

That's a nice sax, but I like the look of the vintage basses better, that neck just looks awkwardFrom what I hear it has the best intonation out there and plays like a dream. Go for the sound, methinks.

[saxtek]

The neck shape eliminates the tight bends found on other older (and new) bass saxes, so it is better for acoustical reasons. It goes on and off quite easily. The tenon is on the body and the receiver is on the neck, which is the opposite of most saxophones, but some of the old Conn bass saxes were made this way too. This design maakes it harder to damage the sensitive neck joint when the horn is in the case, or disassembled.

I like the tall appearance of the old American bass saxes too, but Eppelsheim's design makes visibility easier. With the triple strap ring setup the horn will hang comfortably for anyone and the neck angle is so adjustable it is not awkward at all. As for the appearance of the neck, it's only my opinion, but the neck is the most beautiful part of the horn.

As for playability, it's the best bass saxophone ever, period. That's just an opinion, too, but I've been playing bass sax for about 30 years on lots of different horns, and Eppelsheim's bass is the one I've been waiting for.

[acti0n_jacks0n]

I see. The whole 'loop' comes off. I agree with saxtek, the neck is the most beautiful part of the horn. So.. round.. hard not to stare, huh? :)

[Bar-Ron]

Sound clips are on Benedikt Eppelsheims site.
Zinner mpcs work real well on old Conns too!