Antigua Soprano [Archive] - Sax on the Web Forum

DaveKessler

06-08-2005, 06:04 PM

MrTAD,

You will find differing opinions on whether the finish effects the tone of the sax. Overall, the general concensus is that it does not effect the tone to a noticeable amount.

Finish is mainly for cosmetics. If you like silver, then get the silver horn.

The silver horn will tarnish. While the majority of this is easily maintained with proper care, underneath the keys will tarnish and eventually, you will have to have sax dissassembled on a somewhat annual/bi-annual basis and have professionally cleaned.

Dave Dolson

06-08-2005, 09:40 PM

MrTAD: I'll second what Dave Kessler wrote - and tell you my experiences with several Antigua sopranos of varying finishes.

I went to Kessler's store over a year ago and tested four Antiguas. One was a lacquered fixed-neck model and I immediately set it aside (the neck cork was too large for my mouthpieces).

Of the three 590 models I played that day (lacquered brass, black nickel and silver-plate), the LQ was the best sounding. Vegaschris was there as well as Dave Kessler. They too agreed about the sound. I bought the 590LQ model.

A few weeks ago I had an opportunity to play another poster's black-nickel Antigua 586, recently purchased from Kessler's. It was almost exactly like my LQ model - played great and sounded fine.

I am one to discard the notion that finish affects tone. In my opinion, it is the individual horn and how it is set up (key heights, etc.), not the finish. DAVE

MrTAD

06-09-2005, 01:21 AM

I am looking to buy the sax for my son as his second saxophone. He plays alto primarily (school band and stage band) and plays soprano and alto in his own jazz band (smooth and contemporary jazz). Since the soprano will be his secondary instrument I want to keep the budget to a reasonable level. I am not comfortable buying something this expensive through online auctions, etc.

Where we live we don't have opportunity for him to try many sopranos - and the few stores that have something generally have a student or imtermediate model. I know my son will like the silver finish (just based on knowing my own kids taste) but if its much more effort to maintain, I'll try to steer him to the laquered one.

DaveKessler

06-09-2005, 01:30 AM

Save yourself some more and go for the 586 in lacquer. The Only difference is that it only goes to High F# whereas the 590 goes to high G. Everything else is identical.

MrTAD

06-09-2005, 01:45 AM

Dave,
I appreciate your advice - especially since I know you carry this brand. What do you mean when you say one instrument goes to high F# compared to a G? I hate to risk sounding uneducated musically, but I don't understand. Does it mean that you can reach a higher note on one instrument but not on the other? Or do people not really play a high G note, so having the extra key is of no value? So, one of the sopranos has an "extra key" compared to a non professional model and the more expensive model has two extra keys compared to a non professional model?

DaveKessler

06-09-2005, 01:54 AM

The high G key just makes that note easier to hit. You do not have to have the high G key in order to hit a high G. My guess though is that your student has no need for a High G anyways.

Its almost like having leather seats on a car... just nice, but not absolutely needed.

Mike_K

06-09-2005, 04:50 AM

Its almost like having leather seats on a car... just nice, but not absolutely needed.

...except with leather seats you can use and enjoy them every day, and you would miss them if they were taken away. Chances are very good that your son will never miss a high G key on his soprano.

I (and many, many others here on SOTW) would recommend buying from Kesslers. Dave is great to work with and will set your son up right - I mean, how many dealers would actually recommend that you buy a less expensive horn instead of encouraging you to upgrade to the high G model?

By the way, I have a silver plated Antigua soprano. It looks great, but as Dave says, does require more care.

jivemutha

06-09-2005, 06:54 PM

Mr TAD. I played a bunch of Dave Kessler's horns a month ago and if I had a son who wanted to play soprano I'd also recomend the Antigua 586 in lacquer. It's a professional horn for a student-horn price. While I walked away with a much more expensive horn, the difference between the Selmer I got and Antigua would not have in any way interfered with the ability to play anything and sound good on the Antigua. Dave has a return policy so save yourself a trip to Vegas and just buy the horn and return it if you don't like it. You won't regret it.
jivemutha

bradshawm

06-13-2005, 05:26 PM

I agree with all the above. I have the Black Antigua 586, and absolutely love it. I've had a silver soprano before, and while I loved it, I prefer to spend my time playing the instrument, not caring for the finish. For your sons age, experience and use of the horn, you can't beat the Antgua 586 in lacquer. It would last him well through college.

MrTAD

06-24-2005, 08:08 PM

Tully

06-24-2005, 10:46 PM

Ok,
Thanks to everyone that gave me good feedback on the silver Antigua. I purchased the 590S for my son and he loves it. Ordered it with a Yanigasawa metal mouthpiece based on Dave Kessler's advice. My son and his music teacher both thought it was an excellent matchup.

On a personal note, dealing with Dave Kessler is an absolute pleasure. I would highly recommend doing business with him. Great person to deal with, very responsive, and provided excellent personal service.

Thanks Dave - you guys are great!

Yep, Antigua sops are wonderful, as is Kessler Music. I purchased my 586LQ from someone who had used it only briefly after purchasing it from Kessler Music last March; it is set-up absolutely perfectly, and far exceeded my already-high expectations. Dave has also been wonderfully helpful with some questions I've asked him via e-mail.

Russ

06-25-2005, 09:13 AM

Congrats on your purchase.

I fell out of love with my Silver 590 for a brief spell, but believe me, it was VERY brief ! Mostly down to my ignorance of caring for a silver plated horn.

As for the Yanni metals, I could hang round here all day championing these mouthpieces. Many folk simply overlook them and go for more 'exotic' mouthpieces when the Yanni's cut the mustard just as fluently.

I hope your son is very happy.

Regards.

Dave Dolson

06-25-2005, 05:40 PM

Russ: While the metal Yanagisawa mouthpiece may have cut YOUR mustard, it sure didn't cut mine. I guess that's why there are so many mouthpieces out there . . . DAVE

Russ

06-25-2005, 10:54 PM

Hi Dave,

You're right of course. It's all down to player choice at the end of the day. Some players spend years in search for the right piece, so I count myself extremely lucky that my search has been relatively painless.

xzsalt

10-27-2005, 03:07 PM

Having just been through a slew of sopranos over the past 6-7 months - a 1969 Mark VI, 1927 gold-plated Martin, a 1927 Buescher TT, an Antigua 586 LQ, and now a Yanagisawa straight 901 plain jane laquer finish - the vagaries of each model combined with the almost endless combinations of mouthpieces, ligatures and reeds make it hard to decide which horn to get - REALLY HARD!!!

Up until a surprising experience with a modern Keilwerth, I had been a vintage horn devotee. Now my feelings are more along the lines of believing that the player has far more to do with one's tone than one's horn or setup.

I never liked my Mark VI soprano despite the fact that I bought it from a pro who'd selected it from among a number of other VI's. It had way too much of a nasal sound. The gold Martin was OK but didn't really sing with any of the mouthpieces I tried (old style-to-modern). It was a little stuffy and the intonation was spotty. The True Tone was truely a sweet sounding horn, but I just could not find a setup that allowed me to play halfway easily in tune without really concentrating on making clean transitions. It just cramped my feelings - made me think too much. I liked it best of all however from a tonal point of view. In fact I'd like to try another one ... some day.

I got a good deal on an Antigua 586LQ soprano, and based on the many accolades these saxes have garnered here and elsewhere, I purchased it. Wow! It really opened my eyes to the advantages of a modern horn - easy intonation, nice tone - FUN to play! But...when it came to quality of construction, I was not impressed. The metal quality is definitely inferior to that of old horns and certainly to that of the best modern Japanese horns (perhaps German too - I haven't enough experience with Euro horns to have an opinion). It may be a computer copy of the Yanagasawa 991 (?), but the operative word here is "COPY." There is no comparison to the build quality and structural integrity between the Yanagisawa sopranos and the Antigua Winds. I agree, the Antigua is a great sounding horn at an unbeatable price. But one look at the two horns side-by-side and you immediately can tell the difference. Play each, and it is even more pronounced. IS it worth paying twice as much for a Yani? Many people would say no. But if I am to have only one soprano sax, I most definitely would pay twice as much for a Yanagisawa. It is a high quality instrument across the board - sound, build quality, materials, ease-of-play.

I am completely happy with this sax. A Super Session J mouthpiece gives it a really expressive and solid sound. This ax will satisfy my ears for many years to come.

With good wishes,
gd

Dave Dolson

10-27-2005, 05:14 PM

gd: Nice post - thanks! I assume your soprano of choice is the S901 mentioned early in your post?

I basically agree with your assessment of these instruments although I have no experience with The Martin sopranos (or others, for that matter). I have had Conns, a Yamaha, and a MKVI. I currently have two 1928 silver straight TTs, among others, and BOTH are superior to anything else in my soprano collection.

I play one of the TT's for most serious work. I'm switching over to a metal Link 7* but keep the Super Session J as a back-up in each horn-case. Both are terrific set-ups for me.

I have done a direct comparison of the Antigua 590 series (buying the LQ from among silver and black examples) and compared the 590LQ to my S992 Yanagisawa. Tone-wise, the 590LQ is the better to my ears, but for overall playability, the S992 is superior. My 590LQ does not suffer any construction issues, but the keywork doesn't have the alignment and "feel" of the S992.

For someone on a budget who wants only one modern soprano, the Antigua should work fine. Thanks again for an interseting post. DAVE

Tom Goodrick

10-28-2005, 04:08 AM

I am surprised by the statement by xzsalt about the "obvious" differences in quality. I have had a Yani tenor for several years and am familiar with its construction. I recently bought an Antigua 590LQ. I have never seen a Yani sop. But I was impressed with the similarity of the build of the 590 compared to my Yani tenor. It looked comparable. I have no quality, tone or playability issues with the 590. The cork requires frequent grease and a pad was sticking until I applied a little powder.

There may be some difference in the metal but I expect for most people they would favor the Antigua. On their own site, Yanagisawa warns that they use soft metal in their top-of-the line saxes like the 991 and up. They do this for improved sound. But they warn that if improperly handled the soft metal can deform. I don't think that applies to the 901 series which is more of a student line.

I am an engineer and understand issues with metalurgy and construction. I have loked for issues on the 590 but have seen none. There certainly is nothing that would make me run out and spend more than twice as much for a 991. Perhaps if I were a recording artist I'd go for a 992. Until then I will happily play my 590.

What you say about personal technique having a lot to do with the sound of any sop is very true. You need basic quality in the horn, mouthpiece, lig and reed. But while playing the same horn we can change the sound considerably just by exercising our "chops." That's great if we learn how to use the capability.

goodsax

10-28-2005, 01:24 PM

I'm the second owner of an Antigua 590LQ and I've had it for about a year. It's still playing strong with no functional or cosmetic issues to report. I get many favorable comments about the tone and intonation the most recent being last Wednesday night at swing band practice when I substituted my sop for clarinet, because my clarinet skills are not yet up to par, on a Begin the Beguine solo and received very favorable reactions from fellow band members. I also play the sop solo in Perthshire Majesty in a local symphonic band and it's been well-received. This to illustrate the diversity and flexibility I enjoy with my 590LQ, and I coudn't be more satisfied.

xzsalt

10-28-2005, 11:41 PM

Gang:

Thanks all for your ripostes! Dave, I'm a bit surprised not so much that you've found something you like better than the Super Session J, but that you're changing from that to a metal Link! Wow! I tried one of them not too long ago - it was a 6* however - and it was - well, it was no shrinking violet I'll say that. It spoke right up, but it was just too unruly and strident for me. It sounded nothing like the Super Session does. Of course I was playing it on a different soprano. Anyway, it's always nice to hear when someone finds a good mouthpiece
match! Salud!

And Tom, I have no experience with any Yanagisawa or Antigua Winds saxes other than their sopranos, so I cannot comment on tenors. But I HAVE heard many people say that the Yanagisawa sopranos are the best horn in their line. Likewise I hear more people praise the Antigua sopranos than their other horns. As for the quality of the horn, all I can say is this: I had the horn a couple of weeks and was enjoying it very much. While recording with a friend one day, my dog almost knocked over the mic stand. While reaching for it, I LIGHTLY bumped my sax against my dog. The "impact" popped a spring loose; it completely dislodged one pad so that it would not close properly and unseated another. Actually, the horn was temporarily rendered unplayable from what seemed like nothing! Now I can hear you saying, "RIGHT... he knocked his horn against his dog...that's a good one...so, was the dog your like your engineer or something??" ...

The truth is, the damage the horn sustained in the accident was not in keeping with the force of the "bump." It was way out of proportion. Now, I have not heard the softer alloy story, but to my way of thinking when I just slightly bumped that sax and it got SO wakked out, well that just wasn't right. That's all. I just didn't want a horn that was that fragile.

And I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that the Yanagisawa 901 soprano is their bottom-of-the-line professional horn. It is not a student horn. Correct me if I am wrong about that. Regardless, I am thrilled with it. I like a one-piece horn.

SO, please recall that I am NOT quibbling about the Antigua being a good horn and a good value. It just does not seem as well made as the Yanagisawa.

OK for now. Thanks.

Flipside,
gd

goodsax

10-28-2005, 11:48 PM

...SO, please recall that I am NOT quibbling about the Antigua being a good horn and a good value. It just does not seem as well made as the Yanagisawa...Although I haven't experienced a similar incident to yours, I think you may be right about your assertion that the Yani is more solidly built, or built with stronger materials, than the Antigua. But, that's not based on anything more than a hunch. And I'm one of the strong supporters of Antigua 582/586/590 sopranos.

xzsalt

10-29-2005, 12:14 AM

Goodsax:

Yes, "solidly built," that's a good description; and I agree perhaps built with stronger materials too - even down to the stainless screws. Check the flex in the long rods running down the side. On this 901, man they are stout - very little movement. On my Antigua they swayed and flexed such that I was scared I'd bend them just handling it normally. The metal used on this Yanagisawa is just stronger. And I like the resonance of it just fine.

This is a real good horn to hang out with for a while. You can get around it easily. The intonation is great. It's kind of a well made benign sonic slate - easy to relate through sound - YOUR sound of course. It doesn't GET IN THE WAY. I just didn't feel that - not just with the Antigua, but with any of the other horns. This one just fits the shape of my sound.

OK for now. I want a hamburger.

Y'all be well.
gd

Paul B

10-29-2005, 03:15 AM

Michael Ward

10-29-2005, 07:36 PM

Paul as a soprano specialist and liking Steve Lacy I would be interested to know your set up. Are you still playing a V1? If so why ? Steve Lacey moved through the various Selmers although I read somewhere his favourite sounding horn was a pre Mark V1 Selmer keyed to Eb. Of course he sounded and played wonderfully on all of his horns and set ups. I like the Straight Horn of Steve Lacy ( with Charles Davis) and his groups with Roswell Rudd very much also his Mingus and Monk albums. thankyou Mike

DaveKessler

10-29-2005, 07:44 PM

I've never seen an Antigua horn, and probably never will (I have no need to even try one). But honestly, there's no way anyone can convince me that they--or any such horns, Taiwanese or other--are on a par with Selmer, Yanagisawa, Yamaha, or Keilworth.

They clearly fill a need, and it's great that--unlike even ten or fifteen years ago--there are so many good horns to choose from at various levels, not just lousy student horns and top level pro horns.

But if I were starting out now, I'd save and buy the real deal. I did it years ago with a Mk. VI, but you don't need a VI these days, and my guess is that after a point any good player will eventually push an Antigua to its limit--if it hasn't fallen apart.

Just my .02.

Wow, what a post. The only way for you to know how well these play is to actually play one. If you have read all the various posts on this forum about them, you would have to be crazy to not think that they are as good as people make them out to be.

Yes the Yani is a better horn. But is is 2.5 times the price better a horn? Nope. Most people when playing them side by side in my store will buy the Antigua (about 40 to 1). Most players when they play them fall under 3 categories:

Can't tell a difference between them when playing
Can tell a difference but its so small that there is no way they can justify the price increase for the marginal performance increase.
They just want the best and the price is not the issue.Most saxophone players will fall under the first 2 categories.

The metal on the Antigua, in my opinion, is very good for any Asian made sax. They purchase their brass through Germany. Yanagisawa purchases their brass from Leblanc here in the USA. So the metal is different and counts for some of the differences.

Regardless, the Antigua is the absolute best inexpensive soprano on the market and is 95% the horn of the Yanagisawa at less then Half the cost.

The Yanagisawa is more refined. In a way, the difference to me is similar to the difference between a Toyota and a Lexus. Lots of similarities, but more refinement on the Lexus... with a bigger price tag.

Dave Dolson

10-29-2005, 10:40 PM

Well said, Dave Kessler. I was going to respond to that post, then decided against it - to me, it was uninformed and not worth the effort by someone (me) who has no investment in Antigua other than to own one. DAVE

Paul B

10-30-2005, 12:56 AM

Sorry. Didn't mean my post to come off harshly. If I can find an Antigua in New York (maybe at Sam Ash?), I'll try one. But with all due respect, the 40 folks who buy an Antigua (compared to the one who walks with a Selmer or Yani) are probably looking for something different than what I am looking for. And that's fine--as I said, I think it's great there are more options than in the past, when it was an all-or-nothing scenario, especially for sopranos.

Michael, I too am a Lacy devotee: he's the reason I play soprano. True, he moved on to the Super 80 series after using a Mk. VI for many years, and was playing a Series III the last few years before his death. The old horn you mentioned that he admired was Don Redman's soprano, not an Eb horn. Lacy made some of his greatest music on the VI, though (think of his solo work in the 70s--it's incredible), and pushed the soprano farther than anybody--including Coltrane--ever had. I don't think he liked some of what Selmer did with the new horns, but like most players found that the conveniences outweighed any small problems.

I have a Mk. VI and a Series II. I love both, but play the Series II more. I use a Lamberson Fmaj7 (after years of using a Link, then a brief period of using an RPC) with Vandoren 3 reeds. Lacy used a very open Link, custom made for him, with very soft reeds (1-1/2). A hard combo to make work.

Anyway, my apologies--didn't mean to sound harsh about the Antigua. I'm not a gearhead like most here, and I'll refrain in the future from opening my trap on threads such as this.

All best,

Paul

DaveKessler

10-30-2005, 01:26 AM

Paul,

Thanks for the clarification. No one wants anyone to just shut their "trap" on the forum, that's definately not what this great place is all about. Your post just came off rather condesending. So again, thanks for the clarification.

You probably fall under the 3rd customer category that I describe. This is fine too. Definately not a wrong answer there.

SaxyAcoustician

10-30-2005, 03:14 AM

Paul B clearly chooses to pass judgment on something that he hasn't experienced for himself. There are words out there that describe such a person but I refrain from stating the obvious.

Going back to Dave Kessler's Toyota/Lexus example. There was a time when American cars were the best in the world. Funny how things change.

Paul B

10-30-2005, 03:38 AM

Well, to each his/her own. When I see Antiguas in the hands of the Joe Lovanos and Mike Breckers--or the players I see weekly here in NYC (Chris Potter, Tony Malaby, Donny McCaslin, Marty Erhlich, Mark Turner, the list goes on)--I'll change my tune.

In the end, if money were NO object, would YOU buy an Antigua over a Selmer or Yanagisawa? ( I notice you don't play one, at least according to your list of horns.) I honestly don't think any SERIOUS player would. If money IS an issue, is the Antigua a great choice? By all accounts it is. And that's ALL I'm saying. And from what I can tell, Mr. Kessler agrees with that take on it. The horn is a good deal for the money, but it is not the best horn in the world.

After all this, though, I'm looking forward to trying one. I hope someone back here stocks them and I can put one through a serious workout.

All best,

Paul

Michael Ward

10-30-2005, 09:30 AM

Paul thanks for the information. Sorry about the confusion on the Eb sop. I remember now Steve said the horn only went so high and I guessed it just went to Eb or E like many of the old sopranos. I actually got to appear on the same album once with Steve Lacey and many other greats in the mid eighties. It was a tribute to Thelonious Monk called " That's the way I feel now" and I was playing tenor with Was not Was on Ba-lue Bolivar Ba-lues-are . Steve duetted on two cuts with Elvin Jones and Charlie Rouse... it was the first time I'd heard him and I've been a fan ever since.thanks again MIke

Paul B

10-30-2005, 04:50 PM

Awesome that you got to play with Lacy. I have a pretty vast collection of his records (close to 100), but not the one you mention. I'll try to track it down.

I guess it's for another thread, but would love to hear about the U.K. scene. There are some interesting players there, from "outside" guys like John Butcher and Evan Parker to more mainstream players like Stan Sultman and Andy Sheppard.

Hurling Frootmig

10-30-2005, 04:59 PM

Paul,

I'm not a big time soprano guy but enjoy playing it from time to time. I purchased an Antigua Winds about a year ago and presently have in my collection a Yanagisawa made Vito (Mark VI copy). A decent horn; however, I prefer the Antigua Winds as it feels better in my hands and it has a tone that I prefer. The Yanagisawa made Vito is by no means a bad horn but I prefer the Antigua. I've never been a fan of the VI sopranos at all. I've tried a number of them and they basically leave me cold for a variety of reasons. The same can be said about the Conn sopranos but I find that they have a more interesting tone than the Selmers. The new Selmers are a vast improvement over the VI (on Soprano but not generally the rest of the line).

I doubt you'll find one of these horns at Sam Ash. Check out the Antigua Winds website for dealer information. I think you'll be presently suprised by this reasonably priced horn.

Paul B

10-30-2005, 06:10 PM

Agree that the VIs can be problematic. I love the tone of mine, but it's hard to pass up the ergonomics--and tone--of the newer Selmers. Never tried the old Conns, but have heard good things about them. As for the Antiguas, you seem to be exactly the kind of player who would buy one, i.e. someone who wants to play a good horn but doesn't play soprano all the time.

Best,

Paul

Dave Dolson

10-30-2005, 06:29 PM

Paul: I started on soprano 49 years ago and over time, I've owned a BUNCH of different models, vintage and modern, including all the brands mentioned in this thread. Among those is an Antigua 590LQ. Soprano remains my first instrument - and I play it all the time.

I don't have to choose just one soprano - but if I had to rank those that I've owned/own, I place the Antigua over either Selmer soprano I've owned (a VI and a Serie III).

MY favorite is the Buescher TT (still own two), closely followed by a Yanagisawa S992. The Antigua is an amazing instrument when one factors in the price. I played a whole jazz festival on it a couple of years ago - and it worked perfectly. I don't care if the top players in the world favor something different - that is their choice just as the horns I own now are my choice.

MY favorite current soprano artist (Bob Wilber) plays an old curved soprano but that doesn't mean I have to play one, too. I actually don't like vintage curved sops, but he plays his wonderfully.

Another great player in the traditional style (Christian Vaudercranne of France) plays a VI. Good for him, but that doesn't mean the Antigua is not worthy of consideration. DAVE

Paul B

10-30-2005, 08:42 PM

Cool.

Michael Ward

10-30-2005, 09:03 PM

Paul yes there are some very good players over here . I saw Evan Parker a couple of weeks ago in a European big band and everytime he played soprano it was magical. Kind of like being in a blizzard of beautiful notes especially with the circular breathing. and all the band were smiling . It was definitely one of those moments. I like my Selmer V1 but I did try a 3 recently and I was impressed especially with the intonation. cheers mike

SaxyAcoustician

10-31-2005, 04:03 PM

Well, to each his/her own. When I see Antiguas in the hands of the Joe Lovanos and Mike Breckers--or the players I see weekly here in NYC (Chris Potter, Tony Malaby, Donny McCaslin, Marty Erhlich, Mark Turner, the list goes on)--I'll change my tune.
Why is it so important to you what others play on? The cats you mention gained their reputations by the music they make, certainly not because of the horns they play on.

In the end, if money were NO object, would YOU buy an Antigua over a Selmer or Yanagisawa? ( I notice you don't play one, at least according to your list of horns.) I honestly don't think any SERIOUS player would.
I guess Charlie Parker wasn't a SERIOUS player having played and recorded on many crappy horns during the course of his short life. Not that Antiguas are crappy horns but they're unfairly reputed to be crappy horns simply because they're made in Taiwan.

If money IS an issue, is the Antigua a great choice? By all accounts it is. And that's ALL I'm saying. And from what I can tell, Mr. Kessler agrees with that take on it. The horn is a good deal for the money, but it is not the best horn in the world.
From my experience with the Antigua sopranos, they are true professional-grade horns no matter the price point. Put on a blindfold and play test them among the big names. You won't be able to tell the difference between the Antiguas, Selmers, Yanagisawas, Yamahas, etc. That's how suprisingly and shockingly good they are.

Btw, there is no such thing as "best" horn in the world.

Paul B

10-31-2005, 04:36 PM

I agree there is no best horn, and that the horn doth not make the music--the player does. And look: all I said was that I found it hard to believe that a low-priced, Taiwanese horn was a good as a Selmer, Yani, whatever.

In the end, though, if these horns were as good as Selmer, Yani, etc. don't you imagine most players would sell those horns off, reap a nice profit, and start playing Antiguas? Surely you would, right? You could fetch a lot of cash for that Balanced Action...

As for Parker: a genius can play anything. The rest of us try to find the best horns we can and work with them. I imagine that's why you're not playing an Antigua, and it's why I've been happy with Selmer horns for well over 25 years.

SaxyAcoustician

10-31-2005, 05:38 PM

I think it's in everybody's nature to be associated with the "best", whatever "best" is. I'm not going to lie and tell you that it hasn't been my nature as well. What I've learned over the years is that it's really a matter of eliminating all possible variables. If an amateur player is playing on an "amateur" horn, then by god it's mostly like the horn that's making him sound like an amateur! So he acquires a top-of-the-line horn yet still sounds like an amateur and he thinks it couldn't be the horn; it must be the mouthpiece then. Hundreds and maybe thousands of dollars later, he continues to wonder. All the while he could've been practicing and listening and playing which is the only guaranteed way to sound better. Maybe that's the process one must go through to learn that oh-so-important lesson.

A good horn is a good horn and the Antigua soprano is certainly that. If a player can get past the Antigua name then it'll work for him. As for me, if Antigua made a curved soprano similar to the Yanagisawa SC-991 I'd be all over it.

jivemutha

11-01-2005, 04:57 AM

I think we can all agree on a bunch of points discussed above:

First, buck for buck, the new Antiguas are the best buy out there. Even for those of us old guys with the bucks, we gotta admit, if we were poor kids once again and had no sugar daddy, the smartest thing to do would be to get a new Antigua.

Second, the relatively small differences in quality between the new Antiguas and the "high-priced spread" are vastly smaller than the huge differences in price. (My Selmer LITERALLY cost as much as 4 Antiguas.)

In fact, a few players (like Dave D) even prefer a new Antiqua over the expensive horns. That PREFERENCE is, however, uncommon. Said differently, virtually no famous soprano player has ever chosen an Antigua--not even a 586 or 590, suggesting that at least for the high-end professsionals, the Antigua is yet not quite on the same level as the expensive horns. Read Dave Kessler's comments above--even he is essentially admitting as much. That small difference perhaps is why some of us old guys (who've hopefully saved a few bucks before middle age has disappeared completely) have bought a Selmer or a Yani or Yamaha or Keilwerth EVEN THOUGH IT'S CLEAR THAT PAYING VASTLY MORE HAS BOUGHT US ONLY A LITTLE BIT MORE.

We can also all agree that Bird played on some terrible horns and still could play circles around any of us despite how much we spend for a horn. Playing comes first and second. The equipment comes fourth. (I don't know what's third.)

Even in pianos, where the differences are VASTLY greater than between one professional soprano saxophone and another, Oscar plays a Bosendoerfer, Bill Evans played a Knabe, Herbie plays some strange Italian piano, while most guys prefer Steinway. There is no best horn. That's why some famous players play each of the expensive horns.

. . . I think it's time to get back to practicing and spending less time hair splitting. . . Thanks for bearing with my two cents worth . . .