Best Tenor for Rock/Fusion?

[George]

My first professional level tenor was a Yamaha 875 Custom and I have since upgraded to the gold plated f1 neck. I am using a barone rock/fusion 7* mouthpiece and I still do not feel this horn is well suited to playing rock/fusion.

I am looking for a tenor that is more focused, more sonically interesting, and with a greater level of high frequency overtones - basically the "typical" rock sound.

So far dealers have suggested both the Keilwerth SX90R in black nickel and the Selmer Reference 54. I would appreciate any advice from people here on the forum.

[Hurling Frootmig]

Here's my thoughts on this:


Vintage:

Kohlert
Conn 10M
King Super 20

New:

Cannonball Big Bell
JK

[sessionsax]

Keilwerth
Conn 10M
MKVI
YTS 62

All of these work well -- they are bright horns. I prefer the others over the MKVI but included it, because a lot of contemporary players use them.

[George]

It seems that so far the jk is still on the list - is the black nickel a good choice?

[Bootman]

Don't forget a The Martin tenor too. A SKRB on a MArtin tenor will scare you. :lol:

[Randall]

George,
look at the Keilwerth nickel silver or the Keilwerth silver plated SX90.
You will have found your horn.
An equally good option would be the new B&S Medusa or a Guardala.

[Mark R]

I have to second Bootmans' suggestion. I have a Martin Imperial tenor that does it all. Has a lush tone but it can still have a massive bite and kick out the jams....lot's of punch. If you are looking for brighter sound I would look more for the nickelplate rather than black lacquer model Keilwerth. IMO the lacquer deadens the tone and vibration of the horn some.

[Mark R]

Also forgot to add. I played a Yamaha Custom that had had the lacquer stripped and also the lyre holder taken off. Theory held by tech was that all the additional weight might bog down the vibrations. Anyway once rebuilt it was a great sounding and playing horn that I would consider for rock/fusion.....It was originally a black lacquer model.

[George]

I took the plunge today and ordered a JK SX90R in black nickel from ww&bw to try. If I find the horn too dark they have a few other finishes I can swap it for. My mpc is pretty bight and I have always been searching for a rich dark sound with great harmonic overtone content to balance with the mpc and I'm thinking the JK is the way to go. I'll keep everyone posted.

As an aside I also ordered a SX90II soprano in black nickel to replace my Selmer Super Action 80 series II soprano. I was never able to achive the dark rich sound I wanted with that horn. I'm using a metal link 8* for soprano and hoping the JK will be my answer there too.

[BobD]

george,

I'm surprised you went for a JK. It's supposed to be a darker horn. It'll be louder than your custom but it still might not get you the tone you want. I would think a YTS-62 would have got you to where you want tone wise. From what I have read on this forum I was under the impression that the 62(along with a Martin and King) was the THE horn for rock. The other option may be an early(ie good) Mark VII.

[JL]

I've actually found the mouthpiece to be an equally important component to the horn in getting a certain tone quality-----bright or dark or edgy or whatever.... Almost any "dark" horn can sound bright and cutting with the appropriate mpc, and vice versa.

Also, I don't really understand why all "rock & roll" sax players need to have a specific type of sound, any more than "jazz" players do. A lot depends on your band, how loud they play, what type of R&R they play, etc. But that's another can o' worms.

[George]

I chose the Keilwerth for richness of tone. Although difficult to explain, I find when I hear some players in the higher octaves play (not altissimo) some horns sound like they are playing higher notes than they really are. I attribute this to richness of sound. Although some people will disagree with me, I find the 875 not to possess this richness in it's upper register, even with brighter mouthpieces - I can't get it to ring out like I want. I know the keilwerths are dark, but they are also rich in overtones. By combining the BN finish with a brighter mpc like the Barone Rock/Fusion or perhaps a lawton SS I hope to get a deep, rich, and dare I use the blasphemous word "ballsy" tone.

Of course, ww&bw has a 30 day trial and if I don't like the sound I can try a Nickel-silver finish as well.

[Morry]

I find the JK to have a gutsy sound, rich in overtones. As far as bright or dark, your mouthpiece and reed combo can take care of that. The Dukoff Hollywood on my SX90R is plenty bright for any use.

[George]

Well, the JK came today and with the Barone Rock/Fusion it sounds amazing - I can't imagine needing a brighter horn than this - deep, rich, edgy - pretty much perfect.

With that being said, I'm not crazy about the SX90II soprano so far - it doesn't seem to love my metal link. I ordered a Yani Metal 9 soprano mouthpiece, but it seems it was delivered to the wrong address - so we'll have to wait and see what happens. There were also two lawton pieces in the same order - a bb7 and a bb8* which I wanted to try with the tenor - hopefully this will be cleared up and I can try it all tomorrow.

[Bootman]

George,
hopefully you got the brass models and not the Stainless steel model lawtons. There is a gulf of difference in tonal quality between the brass and the stainless steel.

Lawtons work beautifully on a JK horn.

[George]

Originally I ordered the Latwon BB7 and BB8* in Stainless, but after the order was mis-shipped I reordered and changed to a BB8 and BB8* in Bronze/Gold. I also am going to try a Berg Larson 120-0 and a Ponzol M2. I would have loved to try a Ponzol M2 Plus, as they were designed specifically for JK Tenors, but they didn't have them in stock.

Now if I could only find a mouthpiece for my JK SX90II BN Soprano...

[Mark R]

George, Just my own personal opinion and your mileage may vary greatly but if you dig what the Barone R/F is doing I wouldn't bother with the M2 Plus, IMO the M2 Plus is thinner sounding than say an M2...if you are going to try a Ponzol I would try the regular M2. Congrats on your new Keilwerth......Really if it is doing what ya' want with the Barone I'd stick it out with that for at least a little while until you get to try the Lawtons. Also I love Barone Vintage on soprano , gave me the richest warmest sound of all the pieces I had tried. Good Luck and Happy Horn (and mouthpiece) Hunting!

[Morry]

George, I don't know about the M2, but I really like my Ponzol II-V-I on my SX90R tenor. Just the right amount of punch for me. The Barone Jazz and Link STM were too "spread" sounding, and the Dukoff is a little too edgy. But, as Little Red Ridinghood said...the Ponzol is just right.

I'm anxious to get my SX90R alto in so that I can try my new Jody Jazz ESP.

What kind of deal could you get from WWBW on the SX90II soprano?

[George]

Thanks to everyone for all the help. I have high expectations for the Lawton pieces when they come - I experimented with the SS models on my Yamaha Custom tenor a while back. I just couldn't get the richness out of that horn, so I became frustrated and stopped trying different mouthpieces - the JK tenor, with my Barone is so deep and rich - if the Bronze/Gold Lawtons are even more lush I'm going to love them.

In regards to the SX90II, WW&BW has the BN finish for under $3K.

[Bootman]

The Ponzol M2 in standard and modified model is great on the JK tenors. The Lawton 8*bb is more complex sounding and has a cleaner sound than the Ponzol. I prefer the Ponzol on the Buescher and the Martin tenors but the Lawton seems to play better on the JK straight.

The modified Ponzol M2 120 I have here has a bullet chamber and a slightly larger bore than the standard M2. The sound is more diffuse and bigger than the M2 plus and the standard M2 models. Ponzols seem to come to life with Plasticover reeds too, more depth and darkness over the plain cane and fancy cane reeds.

[saxboy]

The best sax for any style is the one in your trunk.
SAXBOY

[Bootman]

I would have thought that the best sax for whatever is the one in your hands and gob!! :roll:

[saxboy]

Givin me the boot? man...
That's what I... :x
You said it 8)
SAXBOY

[Bootman]

Exactly, just play the horn in your hands. I still dig The Martins but that is what I have in my hands.

[hornstar]

I'd have to vote for the Conn transitional. Not my horn of choice because the ergos, but it roars like nothing else.