Tuning issues with Yamaha alto

[BrianL]

hey all.
I'm having some serious tuning issues with my Yamaha YAS-62II alto sax. At first I was having a heck of a time trying to get C# to play in tune (I'd have to use an alternate fingering, low C# with octave vent). On further examination, I found out that the higher octave was playing extremely sharp. Normally I tuned to a high G, so when that was in tune, everything below was way, way flat. Flat as in nearly a half step flat. I'm pretty sure the problem is being caused by the G1 neck that came with the sax, but could something else be wrong with it? If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to know.

Thanks!

[Dr. Love]

I believe this is caused by the G1 neck. I tested 2 82Z's, and both had the same problem.

[Keith]

The infamous G1 problem affects alto as well? Does that mean the old 875 custom with G1 neck was affected? I brought a 875 last year and was having intunation problems. I tried three different horns in total and they all had the same problem. After three horns, I concluded that I was the problem. I now play a King Super Silver and couldn't be happier.

[singlereed]

Apart form the neck, these thoughts spring to mind and are worth checking. Excuse me if you have tried all this and I am stating the obvious!

You may be using a mouthpiece that doesn't suit this model, although my experience is that in such cases, the tuning error is fairly small, just enough to be a nuisance. Still it's a possibility.

It's a good idea to check tuning against several notes, using both a long and short tube - say low D and middle B (both in the low octave). when you tune, play your natural note and THEN look at the tuner, otherwise you are likely to bend the note into tune. Then try these notes in the upper octave. The palm key notes are very sensitive to mouthpiece placement, but of course are easy to bend too, so I wouldn't tune to those, I'd just check them once I have the rest of it working OK.

All saxophones are something of a compromise, but once I have mouthpiece placement giving acceptable tuning on these notes, then I give it a blow and then re-check, because of course you naturally adjust for intonation as you play.

I suspect it may have something to do with mouthpiece choice or placement because the C# note of course uses a short tube. But then, I suppose a bad neck would cause it too.

[benjamin1979]

just blacklist the yamaha horn and support yanagisawa. wat a stupid horn maker, never check their horn b4 selling. i used to like yamaha brand a lot. but now, forget it.

[averageschmoe]

I've played on a number of 875 altos with the G1 neck and have never had any pitch problems. I'm willing to believe there were problems with the tenor G1, it's a new product and there are sure to be some bugs, but from my experience, and that of everyone i know, the alto G1 neck actually improved the already impeccable intonation of the 875.

[MS]

My G1 neck plalys fine, actually better on my CUstom 875 Alto than the origional M1 neck.

Tuning can be influenced in a lot of places - most of them player oriented.

[BrianL]

Just thought I'd follow up
Just as I thought I've pinpointed the problem to the G1 neck. I swapped it out with the neck on the YAS-52 I sold to my friend in the band and it solved the inontation problem (It still plays a hair flat, but no where near the half step flat that I was getting). I just got off the phone with my local music store and they said they'd have the revised G1 shipped out to me.

Thanks for all the input however

Brian

[Gandalfe]

My 82Z alto has the standard G1 neck and plays spot on. I'm kinda an intonation freak anyway but as I said in another recent thread Phil Woods plays a 82Z and Eric Kloss played my 82Z. We are three happy Yamaha consumers.

And if you don't know who Phil Woods is http://www.philwoods.com, you might remember he only played one tour with Glen Miller, cuz as Miller said, Woods got more applause than I did.

Kloss on the other hand is a blind, world renowned alto sax player who probably can spot an intonation problem faster than anyone. He played my Z for ten minutes last week and had NO complaints.

I gotta wonder about the Yamaha bashers. I play a Yani bari and SOP, Buffet SDA tenor, Couf Superba I and Yamaha 82Z alto. All those horn are excellent.

[BrianL]

Dont get me wrong, I love Yamaha horns. The 62II I have now is a great horn but it has inontation problems I tracked down to the neck. I believe the inontation problems were more common on the 62II than on your 82Z custom, but I could be wrong.

As for Phil Woods, I actualy saw him in concert a few days ago! He was playing locally. Wonderful saxophonist!

[atola]

8) Hi everybody... this discussion is quite interesting to me because I am making the choice of buying a YAS 82Z... Anybody knows if the new improved G1 neck are already on the market... Any official version from Yamaha?? :?

I'm going to spend few days in Minneapolis and want to know if somebody knows good music instrument stores there, I would like a place with a wide choice of alto saxs....


thank you


atola

[markieg]

I have not heard of a sax playing C#2 or C#3 in tune. The best way to do it that I have heard is that instead of all open, play open with your left hand and press down all 3 with your right hand. If this is flat, try lifting finger 3 of your right hand. If it's still flat, try only using finger 1 or finger 2 with your right hand. It's similar to the principal that G and F# are similar, but there's an open key in between. Just randomly try adding keys on the right hand until something works better. Oddly enough, I was told this by a trumpet player (he was my middle school band teacher). I thought he just knew too much about saxes for a brass.

[srcsax]

I have a couple of Yamaha Custom horns with G1 necks. No probles.

One thing to consider is that the Yamaha saxes are built to a different compensating scale. In other words, if you come from a horn such as a Selmer you have learned to play certain notes (like Ab and middle D) in tune by doing minor (or major) adjustments with your voicing. Now that you are on a Yamaha it will take a little time to get things in tune. You actualy need to relax and let the horn do it's work.

All of this happens at an unconcious level. We learn to play in tune on one axe, and then a completely different brand with different tunings throws it all off. This is a common problem with flutes and piccolos as well. When i went froma Roy Seaman piccolo to a Burkhart i had to relearn intonation (or actually, just let the Birkhart do it's thing).

You can't solve this in a couple of hours if you have been playing a different horn for a long time.

[BrianL]

Good idea, but I've been playing on Yamahas for a while now. I upgraded to a 62II from my YAS-52. I'm pretty used to playing on the Yamaha horns. For a while I thought that maybe it was more of a problem with me than the horn, but when I put on my old 52 neck on the 62 horn, the problem seemed to solve itself (Still a hair on the flat side, but no where near as bad as the G1 neck was making it). The note is playing a half step flat, and thats not right. I've played on several horns over the years, mostly Yamahas, but I have never had that kind of problem with it.

Brian

[Storamin]

Good idea, but I've been playing on Yamahas for a while now. I upgraded to a 62II from my YAS-52. I'm pretty used to playing on the Yamaha horns. For a while I thought that maybe it was more of a problem with me than the horn, but when I put on my old 52 neck on the 62 horn, the problem seemed to solve itself (Still a hair on the flat side, but no where near as bad as the G1 neck was making it). The note is playing a half step flat, and thats not right. I've played on several horns over the years, mostly Yamahas, but I have never had that kind of problem with it.

Brian
Could be the horn. Since many profesional and custom horns are built by a persons hands you can end up with a really good one, or a slightly bad one. I own a 52, and my friend does too. They're both reasonably the same, because they were machine made. However, I believe the 62 is more hand built than the 52, and could suffer intonation problems. Did you select it from a group of 62s or just pick that one and buy it?

[BrianL]

I got a call from Yamaha a few days ago. I sent in my serial number and they said that I got one of the saxes with the bad G1 neck. The music store gave me an Allegro neck to use until they get the revised one out to me. That neck solved all the tuning problems.
Thanks for all your help in trying to figure out this problem!
Brian