Circular Breathing

[Storamin]

Hey there! I play the bari sax for my school, and I'm the only bari sax player. Our low brass is seriously lacking. We will have two weak tubas, a weak trombone player(if we're very lucky), and a very weak baritone next years marching band. I'm the strongest player, but I have to take a lot of breaths. The school horn, I use for marching because my Jupiter 893 Artist Bari is worth too much, is horrible. It's 15 years old, and plays like crap. To make this sucker play, I have to constantly shove air down it. This makes me take many breathes. The music dosen't sound very good with so many breaks and nobody else to cover me. I was wondering if anyone here has any tips on circular breathing. I don't take private lessons and have asked all the sax players at my school. Any tips from you saxophone connoisseurs would be terrific! Thanks!

[Gordon (NZ)]

While you are playing, ensure that there is a wide open space in your mouth and throat to 'store' air. (Some players would include cheeks; others don't.) As you start to run out of breath, 'squirt' the air out of this space (just as you would with water, using your tongue to block the bvack of your mouth and push the water out) while you take a breath through your nose. Much easier said than done. The transitions between the squirts and the normal blowing takes much control and practice, especially on instruments that require high air flow.

[LennyH]

Hate to say it, Storamin, but circular breathing is not your answer. Even if you learned it and gained some level of mastery, that beater baritone would probably be a distant memory. I certainly can't do it, but I've seen it done several times and it takes a good amount of focus and concentration. I don't think anyone would use it to compensate for a leaky horn.

You're much better off getting someone to repair the leaks.

[Storamin]

Hate to say it, Storamin, but circular breathing is not your answer. Even if you learned it and gained some level of mastery, that beater baritone would probably be a distant memory. I certainly can't do it, but I've seen it done several times and it takes a good amount of focus and concentration. I don't think anyone would use it to compensate for a leaky horn.

You're much better off getting someone to repair the leaks.
My band director dosen't want to repair it. I made him take it in to fix the low C#-A and it cost 70$, and he didn't like that at all. I think since it's a school horn that I'll just use a flashlight and adjust from there.

[LennyH]

Sounds like your best bet. Assuming that it's not an option to take to a sax tech - There's an article on SOTW that explains how to make a cheap leak light. I believe it's in one of Paul Coates' articles. I put one together for about $10 and it works very well as long as you are in a dark room. If you want to take this project on, I'd start by getting a decent leak light.

I'm not sure whether you're willing to float, or maybe even replace, pads but you might be able to make some improvements to this horn by key bending. I've been using use craft sticks for this. They look like big tongue depressors and are available at a craft store. Just place something like that under the pad on the side that's hitting first, then lightly press on the opposite side of the key.

You might be able to do some good with this, but you'll need a torch (and probably pads and glue) to go any farther.

Good luck.

Lenny

[Pete From Oz]

Re Circular Breathing: I've just started playing Alto sax, and whilst I can circular breathe on the Didjeridu, I cannot work out how you'd do it on a sax. The mouth positions are too different for starters....

But, if someone knows how to make it happen on the sax, I'll certainly
read the article!

Meanwhile, if your Bari sounds that dodgy, I'd look for a leak, or get a better mouthpiece.

Cheers,

Pete

[Pete From Oz]

Okay, pant pant, I tried it last night while practising, and I could allllllmost do it.

I still can't see WHY you'd want to circ breathe, but hey, whatever floats your boat huh?!

Good luck..... 8)

P

[hannibal]

This circular breathing topic may be dead, but thought I'd join in late...

I learned by starting with a straw and clear tall glass of water. Pinch the bottom of the straw to give a bit more air resistance. Practice blowing through the straw gently (making a constant stream of air bubbles). When you are nearly out of breath, push air out through your cheeks while sneaking a breath through your nose. The trick is to keep the stream of bubbles consistent.

The hardest thing I found was that you have to override your brain's natural reflex to want to gulp air when you are almost out of breath. And your body doesn't want you to inhale and exhale at the same time. It's as much as a mental thing as a physical thing.

As for moving from a straw to a sax, well, practice makes perfect.

Circular breathing is cool for the 'wow' factor. I am a mediocre bari player but throw circular breathing in on occassions and it realy turns heads. Plus it means I'm not limited by breath capacity in what I want to play. I guess I just listen to too much Kirk (as if that's possible!). Experiement and enjoy.

[Gordon (NZ)]

.....whilst I can circular breathe on the Didjeridu, I cannot work out how you'd do it on a sax. The mouth positions are too different for starters....

It is certainly far easier on didg, partly because it uses less air when resonating nicely, and partly because a pulsing of the sound during an imperfect change in each breathing cycle is accepted a part of didg playing, but not of sax playing, where the change must be imperceptible.

[Big Nick]

Hannibal: I'm impressed that you can circular breathe on a baritone. Presumably your mouthpiece is not too open?

How are the elephants? :D

[hannibal]

Big Nick

I'm still on my original bari and mouthpiece- no cash to change yet...

The horn is a 1940's Noblet form Paris- a real battle ax big toned beauty. Dents everywhere but plays OK. The mouthpiece is a metal Otto Link 8 with med soft Lavoz reeds and Rovner leather lig. Fairly open I guess. I'm just starting to learn about these things.

With circualr breathing, changing from constant bubbles in a glass of water with a straw to the alto I had at the time was a long process. Getting the tone fairly level was even tougher.

Suprisingly, moving circular breathing from alto to bari wasn't too bad. But I can only do it as low as G or maybe F sharp; not enough air support for the lower notes.

Slightly different topic- A buddhist monk in Thailand and I were talking about meditation and music and I eventually showed him circular breathing (on an alto). He commented that the mental skills in doing circualr breathing, especially playing one long note, were very similar to Vipassana meditation. I now practice the breathing tecnique just to relax...

Can explain in more detail if anyone's interested in buddhist mediations on the horn.

[hannibal]

Oh yah, the elephants...

Let's just say that in the interest of exploring my adopted England's culture, I have sampled a few ales here and there :D

Playing horn + hiccups = bad mix! :twisted:

[Pete From Oz]

.....whilst I can circular breathe on the Didjeridu, I cannot work out how you'd do it on a sax. The mouth positions are too different for starters....

It is certainly far easier on didg, partly because it uses less air when resonating nicely, and partly because a pulsing of the sound during an imperfect change in each breathing cycle is accepted a part of didg playing, but not of sax playing, where the change must be imperceptible.

Hi Gordon from NZ, yeah I realise this is a year old, but yes, I agree that the context and style of the didj allows for a certain amount of cyclic "chutzpah" which is not really possible on the sax.

BTW, do you know of the group "Salmonella Dub"? I've heard some of their stuff and I love it!

Cheers,

P

[Gordon (NZ)]

No, the only accomplished didg player I have heard was a busker in Auckland's Queen St. His versatility blew me away! So many sounds at once.