A visit to the factory :)

[Paul S]

Hi All

I was in Italy last week and decided to do a pilgrimage to the R&C factory in the 2 days i had spare between skiing and flying out of Milan.

R&C are located in a very small town called Quarno Sotto, which is kind tricky to find (serious understatement). After a number trips up the steepest and narrowest mountain pass I've ever seen (I later discovered that there never used to even be a road here!), a couple of stops in cafe's, a supermarket and a butchery as well as some hilarious attempts at communication in very bad italian, I eventually found my way to the right place. A mall shrine and even smaller name plate rather understatedly announce that you are indeed at the factory of Rampone et Cazzani. The town around is a maze of small, old and rather quaint buildings all perched on top of the mountain - one really feels like you have stepped back into the middle ages :shock:

Claudio was kind enough to agree to meet me on a Sunday and we had a fantastic time checking out saxes and getting some insight into the truely amazing process by which they make saxes. "Hand made" just doesn't do justice to the incredible process of craftsmanship using mostly self-made tools.... I have new respect!

I was particularly looking for a tenor, so I tried a R1 Jazz in gold-plate as well as one in sand-blasted silver. The first thing that strikes you about the horns is "wow its big" - a very large bore and a serious weighty solid feel to it. Next you notice the neck angle and length - long and flat. As it turns out I was trying a brand new neck design. But its the sound that knocked me out. BIG, FAT and WARM! :) This is not a middle of the road horn - its unashamedly going for that vintage, big, dark, beautiful sound.. A bit like a 10m perhaps. Bigger and darker than an early Aristocrat. In the end I went for the silver plate - a demo model that been used a bit and was maybe a little better adjusted. I felt it was a little more powerful, resonant and brighter than the gold, but this may well have been the better adjustment. the gold was just so beautiful - I hard a hard time going with my ears and the silver (which is also a fine looking horn)

Since I have got it home, I've played it tons (my early babbit hr link seems a perfect fit). I am really starting to appreciate it more and more. They sound in my lounge is just incredible and I can really appreciate the increase in size and character its given me. I have had to adjust for intonation in the upper register, which plays flatter than most modern horns. Loosening up my embouchure all round is sorting this out quite quickly. Altissimo is going to take some work as the usual fingerings are not working for me - I suspect however the real issue is in airflow - the big bore needs more and the neck angle is different. These minor adjustments aside, if you love the sound Dexter gets on his ballads - as I do - this horn is just wonderful :D

I will post some pictures soon for those of you that are interested....

Now I just want to go back and try the baritone, alto, saxello and a very sweet looking sopranino ...

cheers
paul

[Dave Dolson]

Paul: I really enjoyed reading your post. I now have an R&C R1 silver-plated alto, and previously owned the gold-plated tipped-bell soprano as well as the GP sopranino. All are/were great instruments. DAVE

[tophatsax]

Paul,

Thanks for the post. Very interesting.

[xuanvu]

Thanks for the post, it makes me love my R1 Jazz even more :)

[fabiend]

great post Paul but let us know if you have bought it or not?...

take care

f

[Paul S]

fabiend - you bet I bought it. In fact that was another part of the adventure. The factory doesn't take visa or travellers cheques. Being a sunday, no banks were open - so i drove around the little towns around it emptying the ATMs to get enough cash :dazed:

As luck would have it, I have a limit on how much cash I can draw - so in desparation I went into a restaurant and convinced the owner (in my best italian) to let me pay EUR 400 on my credit card and give me cash. Amazingly, he did it! I went back later with the sax and a bottle of champaigne and played for him and his customers :)

I really feel like I was meant to have this sax as so much effort and good fortune went into its acquisition - I have vowed never to sell it.

Dave - thanks, glad you enjoyed my story. Claudio and I chatted a bit about the ref 54 alto (i have one which i love). He suggested that the bore of the neck might be a little bigger on the R&C, not so much on the body as with the tenor.. Have you found this?

I am keen to try a soprano - will maybe go back next year. Although Claudio plans to come out here to South Africa and I have invited him to be my guest. I might ask him to bring one with.. did you try the curved as well?

warm regards
Paul

[Dave Dolson]

Paul: No, I have not done any neck comparisons. I'm one to believe that bore-diameter and/or design are only mildly interesting (although I DO agree that some neck swaps can make a difference in how a horn plays).

I am not convinced that a "big bore" means anything other than to stir the pot. So far, I can't recall anyone who has actually done any significant measuring throughout a horn's whole neck and body, then drawn any objective conclusions about the differences, if there were any.

And yes, I'm sure someone will come back here with a link to some article where it was claimed to have been done. But in the final analysis, a horn plays or it doesn't - and I'm not convinced that bore dimensions have anything to do with it. I put the bore-size discussions in with the finish discussions - both unproven to me. Big bore - small bore - I think we're only talking about thousanths of an inch. Rant ended!!

And no, I have not played a curved R&C soprano. I recall someone here (on SOTW) has one and loves it. But my curvy needs were met by Yanagisawa, so I'm not looking anymore at curved sops (but I'd try an R&C in a heart beat if I had the chance). DAVE

[xuanvu]

I'm the one who's play the R1 Jazz curvy and absolutely love it. Before that I've played and tested many sops; the only one that come as close as the R1 is the P. Mauriat straight sop.

[Captain Beeflat]

Paul S. A lovely description of your visit. Exactly as I had imagined the site of the factory; that sound could only come from such a romantic setting.

[rek]

Thanks for your post, Paul. Informative and enjoyable reading.

Can you please comment on the ergonomics of the horn. I really like a vintage sound but my small hands struggle with the wide spacing of the keys of most older horns. Is the layout closer to a Buescher, Conn, Keilworth, or to Selmer and it's clones.

Thanks :)

[saxmanglen]

Paul,

Very nice thread. Thanks for sharing.:)

Glen

[Paul S]

Rek, I also have small hands, but am managing fine on this horn.

I would say it feels a bit like a Keilwerth - a bit more spread in the right hand than the Buescer Early Aristocrat I had. The palm keys also require more hand movement than some modern horns. The left hand pinky cluster is very much like the aristocrat - not dead easy and smooth, but perfectly workable once you're used to it.

The action feels very solid and secure - quite smooth too, but not in the league of my ref 54 alto which is like butter - but then nothing is! 8-)

The neck angle and length also took some getting used to, but now all is perfect. The horn is just sooo fat and resonant. Its got a beautiful singing quality that is rare and for me just feels way way personal - like I can really find MY sound on it.

hope this helps

[Paul S]

Oh yes, I have some pics, but can't figure out how to post them. Drop me a mail if you're curious.. salvag_p at mtn dot co dot za

[txsphere]

I been playing my R1 Jazz tenor for about six months and it just gets better all the time. Definitely work on that altissimo as it will help you appreciate the rest of the horn. Worst part of the altissimo on these horns is the G which takes just the front F and very special air (use the force). Although, once you get past the G the rest of the octave up to the next G is really very easy and beautiful sounding.

As much as I love my Rampone I do wish Claudio would get with technicians and get a better design for the keys. They feel wonderful but he leaves little room for adjusting key height and since the intonation of this horn is so sensitive to mouthpiece chamber size, adjusting the key height is a necessity.

Another thing I love about the Rampone is when you send them an email you get a reply from Claudio himself. You will never get that from the president of Selmer or Yamaha.

[pepesax]

Hello there!
I've been reading all the latest messages related to Rampone & Cazzani and I am glad that opinions are very similar to mine.
We have many things in common. First af all I am the proud owner of a R1 Jazz tenor, sand blasted gold body and heavy gold plated keys and bell.
I can share same opinions on the beauty of the instrument and its sound and also on how its sound grows and feels better the more you blow in it.
I also found same peculiarities in key design and I am getting some difficulties in producing the altissimo G as well.
All in all it is such a pleasure to play this saxophone that I find its differences from other well-known saxes quite irrelevant. Moreover, this sax has a character and a special appeal which is not always easy to find in other competitors.
That's it: I just wanted to share my point of view.
pepesax