An in tune c-melody...Does it exist?

[LordXiminez]

I've been messing with my 1922 straight neck Conn for eons now, to try and get it in perfect working order so I can play it. New cork, three different mouthpieces....but the same problem keeps cropping up no matter what I do: The sax is REALLY out of tune. (And to think I had heard the straight necks had the best intonation! Ugh, what does a curved neck sound like?)

So anyone have an example of an exemplary c-mel, or is the in tune c tenor simply the product of our collective imaginations?

[awholley]

I have a curved-neck conn stencil (Bruno) and the intonation is fine, with the exceptuion of middle D, and that's really just a matter of lowering the C pad a bit. I tested it with a Couf Artist 5* tenor mouthpiece.

Also, I tested it with a Morgan 3c alto mouthpiece and it was way out of tune with itself when tuned to A-440. When I tuned it to it's overtone series with the alto mouthpiece, the intonation was fine once again, but everything was. of course, aout 20 cents sharp (and yes it is a low pitch sax -it's just the alto mouthpiece that threw it out.). I just got a Morgan 3c tenor piece and have not tried it with the c-melody. I'll probably get a Morgan c-melody piece eventually.

I'd be interested to know what mouthpieces you are trying with the horn.

Alan

[Dave Dolson]

My Buescher TT C-Mel plays in tune. DAVE

[tbone]

I've got three straight neck Conn C-mels (one bare brass, one silver plate and one gold plate) they all play in tune. They can be fussy about mouth pieces though. Try Runyon's C-melody piece (it uses tenor reeds) If you're trying to use the old, stuffy, "vintage", pieces from back in the day then stop! I'd rather whack myself in the head with a 5lb. hammer than play with one of those. Beechler also makes a fine piece. I also have an early Babbit C-mel piece that's nice. I've heard that Morgan has made c-mel pieces too. 8-)

[CMelodyMan]

What kind of mp do you use? Alto, tenor, or c melody? Maybe you should buy a c melody mouthpiece? I've heard that many of the intonation problems with c melodies are due to the incorrest sized alto or tenor mp, but apparently the other people on this thread have avoided that.

[David Spiegelthal]

Yes. My 1922 King C-melody, using any of the three tenor mouthpieces I've tried on it so far (one hard rubber and two metal) plays very well in tune, as does its big and little brothers (1925 King tenor and same-year alto). Maybe your Conn is just not one of the better ones? It happens, with any brand in any size of sax...........

[Ezekiel338]

There is a possibility that a large-chamber Caravan alto mouthpiece might work as well. I have a stencil that I believe to be a Buescher. I tried three other mouthpieces (C*, Rousseau jazz, and stock C-melody) in a proposed senior project, but found that my Caravan fixed the C-melody's self-intonation problems when tuned to A-440. I checked out Wyman's doctoral thesis for answers and suppose I understand the physics behind my unexpected result.

[Bryan Kendall]

I have a 1921 Conn straight neck C (Tenor) Melody and a matched 1921 Conn soprano in C. They are satin silver with gold bells and played in poor tune.

I contacted Mr. Morgan and he was very cordial, asking me what sound and approach I was looking for. He made me a mouthpiece for each one..........a C-Melody mouthpiece and a C-Soprano mouthpiece. He seems a thinker - very analytical.

When I received his mouthpieces I was impressed by the difference - I cannot fault Mr. Morgan's work. I have used other mouthpieces including the original Conns and some original Buechers for C- Melody and C-Soprano. These Morgan mouthpieces are acoustically correct for the horns and they play in tune with a round sound. The sound of the Tenor is beautiful, voice like with some wood and a bit dark. The C Soprano is a lyric oboe.

I bought two silver ligatures by Francois Louis ligatures and use only Alexander Superial Classique reeds. The horn rings like a bell.

God bless Mr. Morgan and all the experienced C-Melody players from this site and from the C-Melody site who gave me counsel.

[Roger Aldridge]

Hi Bryan,

It's great to hear from you!

Ralph Morgan is currently making a custom made c-melody piece in a 3 facing for me. Since I switched to a Buescher c-melody I found the larger tip openings haven't worked as well for me on this horn. I started at 6 and went down to a 5 and then 4. The 4 is clearly in the right direction but no cigar yet. I'll let you know how the 3 works. Hope you're doing well.

Roger

[David Spiegelthal]

I played a combo gig this past Sunday, one in which I knew we were going to be asked to play some hymns right out of a hymn book, along with our usual "real book"-type standards -- so I brought along my 1922 King C-melody, and when it came time to do the hymn tunes, I just pulled the mouthpiece (refaced stainless Berg, about a 120/2) off the tenor (a matching 1925 King), slapped it on the C-melody, and played away. Intonation was as good as this mediocre player could make it, and it was so much fun to play I used it on a few regular tunes thereafter.

Piece of cake!

[saxmong]

My 1919 Conn has a standard mpc and the only prob In have is middle D is about 20% sharp. Same as my 1935 alto! Same as my 2006 alto!
Can use palm keys instead.

Question should be, Can any sax play perfectly?

[OLDAIR]

I have posted before about my luck with mouthpieces. Here is an update.
Most mouthpieces, whether alto or tenor were dreadful. The vintage mouthpieces are beyond dreadful - worthless - awful. Of those that worked better than most.

Runyon C-Mel mouthpiece great sound but bad intonation.
Rico tenor A5 Graftonite - Decent tone - pretty good intonation.
Morgan Protone Tenor - Best yet. Nice tone, easy to play, good intonation but still problems on one or two notes.

Just last week on a whim I decided to put my Morgan Protone Alto mouthpiece on my straight neck Chu Conn C-Mel. It wouldn't slide all the way on, about 5/8 inch of the neck cork was still showing. I figured it would be awful. I was shocked to find that the intonation is the best of ANY of the four and that even the lowest notes were strong and easy. I still can't believe it but there you have it.

One thing is for sure, the C-Melody Tenors are the most mouthpiece finicky sax you will ever own and minor adjustments to key heights combine to make this horn a challenge to get it to play in tune. I have heard great things about the Morgan C-Melody mouthpieces though. I can't quite justify the price, no more than I play. Someday maybe.

[danarsenault]

My 1920-ish TT C tenor fell in love with a tenor Jody HR 6*. And I so wanted it to like an alto piece...

[Gandalfe]

Morgan Protone Tenor - Best yet. Nice tone, easy to play, good intonation but still problems on one or two notes.

Just last week on a whim I decided to put my Morgan Protone Alto mouthpiece on my straight neck Chu Conn C-Mel. It wouldn't slide all the way on, about 5/8 inch of the neck cork was still showing. I figured it would be awful. I was shocked to find that the intonation is the best of ANY of the four and that even the lowest notes were strong and easy. I still can't believe it but there you have it.

One thing is for sure, the C-Melody Tenors are the most mouthpiece finicky sax you will ever own and minor adjustments to key heights combine to make this horn a challenge to get it to play in tune. I have heard great things about the Morgan C-Melody mouthpieces though. I can't quite justify the price, no more than I play. Someday maybe.Dave Kessler turned me on the the Morgan Protone for my soprano, which I think is harder than a C-melody to play well. I also use a Ralph Morgan R15 mouthpiece for my clarinet that is great for intonation. I'm starting to wonder why Ralph got it right when so many others did not.

[bruce bailey]

Thanks for the Protone idea. I have one in my Tenor case and didn't even try it on the C Melody.

[JMac]

Whatta coinki-dink. I had just tried both a Protone tenor and a Runyon 22 tenor piece on my Buescher TT C Tenor the night before Oldair's post.

Both have a nice tone across the registers (their chambers, tips, etc. are nearly identical to the naked eye), but the intonation was not as good as that of the no-name plastic C-mel piece that came with the horn [particularly in the upper register].

Next experiment is to try the alto pieces.....

[paulwl]

The vintage mouthpieces are beyond dreadful - worthless - awful.Send 'em to me. I'll pay the shipping!

[bruce bailey]

So far I have not noted any difference in intonation on my Martin with an Alto, C or Tenor mouthpiece. The intonation problems are just the same as for any horn of that vintage. I had a straight neck Conn and it was OK too.

[mhoyoux]

Hello from EUROPE !



I have MORGAN C Mel mouthpiece... Horn is singing like a bird...

Don't forget... The player makes the horn... Sometimes you have to compensate !!!!!!!!!!!

Nice Day !


Maxxxxxxxx

[Daktion]

I have MORGAN C Mel mouthpiece... Horn is singing like a bird...

Maxxxxxxxx

that's good to hear... i have one incoming from Ralph via Dave @ junkdude. I'll be testing it on 2 TT c mels.... should be fun

[OLDAIR]

I'll look - I think I tossed one or two in a box somewhere.

[LoVeTheBlues]

How in tune does this sound?
http://www.modernsax.com/listentothecmelody.htm
download Jennifer's Lullaby.

[JMac]

Great sound Greg! (Love Blue Bossa and Masquerade too). - Gotta ask what your set up is? Your upper register sounds a little thicker than does mine (at this point) - with a nice even tone across the registers.... 8-) .

[LoVeTheBlues]

Thanks Jmac........I use my tenor mp.....HR Berg 100/1 with 3.5 zz vandoren's
The horn needs some work, and more time on, but I'm happy with how it sounds.