R1 Jazz Alto & Reference 54 Alto

[hanson74]

Has anyone played or owned both of these horns? I'm looking to buy a new alto and was wondering how the Rampone and the Selmer differ.

[saxboy]

Owned - no, played - yes.

They are both great horns and you really need to get them in hand to make the right call for you.

Since I am older and owned and played Mark VI's, the Ref has a familiarity that any old VI lover would find hard to not love. If I could pull that background away from the mix, I would say the Ref is a little more live and the RC can be darker with a little more resistence in Gold and a little edge added in Silver.

Honestly they are both great saxes. Don't see how you could go wrong with either.

The only other point for me is playing saxes from the same manufacturer when possible for ease of switching and tonal similiarities. With that said and mis-spelled: If you are an Alto/Soprano guy? I would go RC all the way cuz the Selmer Soprano's are very lame for me and the RC Sops are a total favorite.
If Soprano was not ever going to be a double on your stand, then I would say that the Ref A/T and Slemer's Bari are amazing instruments as far as families go.

You see, it depends on who you are, where you have come from and where you want to go before you can get direction as to what course to take.

I have an article up at www.SaxReviews.com/disclaimer.html that explains 'Direction' and 'Process' and a How to Buy article - www.saxreviews.com/how_to_buy_sax.html

Good luck with the Process but you can hardly go wrong with these Saxes!

SAXBOY
www.SaxReviews.com

[jjgold]

I have played the Ref 54 Alto. I own a Rampone R1 Jazz Alto in 24k. The Ref is a neat horn. Very different than the R1. (My R1 Bari, IS THE BEST BARI I HAVE EVER LAID MY HANDS ON!!!!!) The alto is Superb! I have never been much of a selmer guy. I feel the R1 is the closest thing to vintage that I have ever played except it is new! Plus there is a uniqueness in owning a hand made horn. I judge a horn by it's replacement value. (I WILL NEVER SELL MY BARI. It was made special for me) I am not much of an alto player so I would sell the R1 for the right money. That would be easy to replace with another Rampone! :)

[Dave Dolson]

Just today I acquired an R1 silver-plated Rampone alto. I traded a horn with Rob Fleming ("Goodsax") for the Rampone.

I played it for three sets at my regular gig. Nice horn, alright, and a good looker to boot. It looked nice on the rack next to my silver TT soprano and the silver-trimmed Buffet clarinet. I know, I know - looks isn't everything. I had my Ref 54 with me, too, but chose to work with the Rampone for the day, just to test it.

Be sure I will do a complete side-by-side as soon as possible,r plus go through all my favorite mouthpieces with the Rampone. For staters, I feel a little looseness in the Rampone's action (some key bounce), but that was not fatal. Intonation was spot-on and the horn had a nice focused sound that was able to be heard without amplification (a MUST for me). The Rampone did not have the velvet feel of the Ref 54, but no other saxophone I've ever handled has THAT feel. DAVE

[hanson74]

Thanks for the responses. I made a trek out to Saxforte the first weekend in March and came home with a gold plated R1 Jazz. It was a tough call between that and the 54 (ask Matthew how long I was there switching back and forth...and back and forth...and back and forth!). They are both great horns, but the Rampone's sound had something extra to it that I personally liked better in the end than the Selmer.

[Dave Dolson]

I spent a few hours this afternoon playing three of my altos . . . Ref 54, B&S Medusa sandblasted gold finish, and a silver-plated Rampone R1.

I used a variety of mouthpieces . . . Meyer 7M-Small Chamber, Meyer 6S-Medium Chamber, Selmer Soloist F, and Selmer Super Session F; Vandoren Java #2 reeds, stock metal ligatures.

All horns played well with all mouthpieces. The Ref 54 was the best - still; better tone, easier response, and gorgeous. Plus, this horn (like all Ref 54's I've held) has a certain feel to it that is missing in every other saxophone I've held. The Ref 54 is a class-act, alone in the alto saxophone world.

Between the B&S and the Rampone - I couldn't decide. Both are outstanding horns. The B&S has the more precise keywork, but the Rampone has the bigger sound. The B&S is very focused, the Rampone a bit more spread and resonant. It is the closest I've heard to a Ref 54's tone - but not the same, the Ref 54's being unique.

The differences between the Rampone and the B&S sounds are difficult to describe, yet easily discernible. The B&S sounds like the tone is coming right out of the tube into my face, while the Rampone envelopes me more, like it is coming from multiple speakers. Weird.

The Rampone has a weak neck-octave key spring - I'll try to address that. The result is that the neck-octave key tends to bounce in fast passages and I could watch it sag back when I opened it, then left it open. This did not affect the horn's playability, but the feel of the keywork (that bounce resonated throughout the horn) was slightly distracting. No big deal, though.

For looks, the silver Rampone is hard to beat, but the Ref 54 still has it for my eyes.

The Super Session F gave all horns a lush, warm sound, but it lacks projection, as I've come to discover in various venues where I've played it. In a small, "live" room, the SS-F would be perfect.

The Meyer 7M will be my piece-of-choice on the Ref 54 - as it has been since getting it. The Soloist F was more focused than the SS-F, too, but being almost "Meyerish" in it's tone, I will defer to actual Meyers at this time, and keep the Soloist F as a back up in one of the cases.

That leaves the Meyer 6S which has always been one of my favorite pieces. I'll use it with the Rampone - for now.

I know this thread was about a "Jazz" model by Rampone, but I have yet to figure out the differences, save for what the Rampone web-site says - they claim the "Jazz" is red-brass, or something like that. This R1 I have is silver-plated, although I can't see any brass anywhere - the neck-tenon and inside of the neck, and the body appear to be silver, almost like a solid-silver horn. Bottom line, the Rampone is a very nice horn, as is the B&S Medusa. But the Ref 54 is still my favorite. DAVE

[hanson74]

Hi Dave - I would be interested to hear what you think of the R1 Jazz model if you get a chance to play one. I played the R1 also and while it was still very nice, the Jazz (Red Brass) model seemed to have more character and warmth than the regular R1.

By the way, I agree with you that the keywork was a little better on the 54. But, the Rampone more than made up for this elsewhere for me.

[Dave Dolson]

Hanson: I will do that . . . but I doubt if I will experience the "Jazz" version of the R&C. I'm no longer on the hunt, as they say. The silver R1 just came to me on a chance (thanks to "goodsax").

I STILL have not heard anyone give any distinct differences between an R1 and a "Jazz". I'm from the school that believes finish and body material have little effect on a horn's sound (see saxpic's comments in another thread about the Grafton plastic alto making his point). But having said that, I don't know why the Ref 54's have such a distinct tone, either. And frankly, I don't really care - all I know is that the Ref 54's have a great sound to my ears while I play them.

The Rampone had a wonderful sound, alright - among the best of the modern altos I've owned/played. DAVE