Hope I'm Not Too Late To Learn - Needing Some Guidance

[DooDaa]

Someone once told me, "It's never too late as long as you are living."

I believe that, so at age 43.7, I walked into a pawn shop and saw a "very" nice looking "Buescher True Tone" for $160.00. I looked it over really good, and it seemed like it was very well cared for. I handed the man the cash.

The sax turned out to be a 24k gold plated Buescher alto circa 1924 with relatively new pads and extremely little wear and plastic resonators. Only one problem though - the mouthpiece was a sucky sounding plastic one with no name brand on it. I started calling around and found a sweet deal on a metal Otto Link Super Tone Master 5*. Even though my setup is non-conventional, this sax sounds soooooo sweet to me. I'm in love with it.

So then it was off to the music shop for beginner's method books. I spent two months practicing out of "Essential Elements 2000" and got REALLY bored with it -- even though it seems "helpful." My neighbors have been very kind about listening to 1000 attempts at "Aura Lee," "Camptown Races," etc.

So then what? I went to a used book shop and bought out their stock of used sax method books for about $1.00 a whack. In the pile I discovered a Hal Leonard etude book and I was in heaven. I'm kind of still there except....

....I don't feel like my practice sessions are productive enough, and I sure don't feel like my approach toward my goals of playing the blues is on target at all.

Private lessons are not an option for me. I live up in the mountains of Colorado and there is nobody around here. Second, I could never afford the time, gas, and generally the money to commute for lessons to the nearest city.

So what do I do now? I've only been practicing for 3 months and I feel like I'm getting lost and wasting precious time as well.

Can someone recommend a good course of study for me, or help me on this journey? I'd really appreciate it.

[fballatore]

DooDaa -

I'm jealous - sounds like you got a great deal on the sax!

I just started playing myself, and was trying to decide between live lessons and self study. I'm fortunate to have a choice, and decided on a personal instructor. One of the things I looked at while trying to decide was Skip Spratt's Lessons by Mail. You may want to check that out at http://saxshed.com/lessonsbymail.htm .

Good luck!

[DooDaa]

Thanks for that link, but unfortunately I don't think I can afford those lessons right now.


I'm jealous - sounds like you got a great deal on the sax!



Here's a picture of the Buescher I got at the pawn shop:

http://www.paradisefirearms.com/doodaa1.jpg

[DirkW]

DooDaa, that's a terriffic horn that you got for a steal!

Where you go from here with your sax playing will depend on your goals. Do you want to play in a community band? Church? Just for yourself? It's not too late to become a semi-pro.

[gary]

DooDaa, you have made a grave mistake. There is not enough time left for you to become a good sax player. I hate to say this, but you've wasted your money on an old used sax too. But since I hate to see one of my brothers in pain, send me the Buescher and I'll see if I can get your money back for you.

In the meantime, I highly recommend getting the exercise book "The Universal Method". If you are short on cash this is a one-stop book that has oodles of various exercises for all levels an convering a wide variety of techniques. You seem to be playing songs right now and that's fine but you need some technical development too and the Universal Method should do you well. There are other books you could collect get that cover much the same material (but not in one volume) but it gets costly that way.

When you get some more shekels, you should then get "The Art of Saxophone Playing" by Larry Teal which is not an exercise book but explanations of various aspects of sax playing you should be aware of.

Next, I would recommend getting Dave Liebman's "Developing a Personal Saxophone Sound" or something like that. There is a video you could get that covers the same ground as in the book but in more detail. An advantage to you would also be that you can see some of his sound concepts demonstrated.

You can get these as you have the cash to afford them. Then, depending on your interests, there are the Aebersold Play-Along series and plenty (actually too many) other books.

But I believe on a limited budget these books should give you a balanced beginning. Good luck!

[rcwjd]

Dooda

Congrats on discovering the joys and drawbacks of pursuing music on your own. However, you need not be totally without contact. Consider joining us over on the Post A Member Recording thread. We have all levels of players posting there, and as a group we give good natured, if not always accurate, comments and suggestions. Generally the group gravitates to jazz, but any type of tune is acceptable for posting and comments. It's free. All you need is to get one of those free web sites, post your clip in Mp3 format, and voila. The classical guys also have a thread with the same deal - post a clip for comment. Look in the Classical thread of the SOTW. Good luck.

[DooDaa]

DooDaa, that's a terriffic horn that you got for a steal!

Where you go from here with your sax playing will depend on your goals. Do you want to play in a community band? Church? Just for yourself? It's not too late to become a semi-pro.

Thank you for the confirmation of my good "luck"? I consider myself fortunate to find a sax of that condition and sound to learn with. Maybe getting this sax at such a "steal" is some type of divine, "thumbs up"? I don't know, but it sure has come at a time when I definitely can use "something" to help distract me a bit from all the cares of this life. I find myself joyfully taking to it like a duckling's first plunge into the water. It may not have all the bells and whistles of a modern sax, but hey, if it was good enough for Hodges........

I need to learn to play the blues, and possibly some jazz. As far as venues, I'd like to eventually play in small groups for small audiences, and, of course, solo sometimes. I don't look at playing as being "about me," rather, "for me" -- a daily medicine for my soul if you will, and perhaps my only way to express my inner self. I definitely wish to share it with others at some point in the future. I'm generally a very laid, back, fluid type of guy who runs away from stoicism. You'd never see me wearing a suit unless it's at a funeral. Most church music -- even the contemporary stuff -- would create instant, painful boredom in me, so I don't think you'll see me doing that anytime soon. I get to feeling that way with classical music also -- even though I'm willing to get through it to improve my technique. In all the things I do for enjoyment in this life, I've found that unless it pleases me as an individual first, it will never go public and will probably die a sudden death.

As it stands right now, I can only play a few songs - "Bridge Over Troubled Water," "I Don't Know How to Love Him," and I did "Auld Lang Syne" on New Year's Eve at my friend's house where I fumbled a couple of notes and learned that I was capable of a spontaneous, barely controllable vibrato when playing in front of others for the first time.

I already have Larry Teal's book. I read it about 10 times so far. *smiles* I enjoyed gleaning all of that useful information. Particularly the embouchure excercises. The book is worth way more than it's weight, but as for Teal himself, well, I'm just gonna say that I vow never to defame the sax publically again unless it's with the audience approval beforehand.

What I'm looking for is as straight a course as possible to my goal of being able to play the blues and to improvise. I'm feeling like I'm wasting much valuable practice time and I'm unsure if I'm practicing what I should be and learning what I should be learning at this point. I know that I'm just not gratified enough by classical and "Camptown Races" though I AM willing to practice ANYTHING as long as I can see it's value in advancing me where I want to go.

Here's an example of what I'm going through right now. The other day, I saw, in the last page of a method book, half a page that talked about the "blues" and introduced me to the basic blues scale -- several notes on a staff was all there was, and then the book ends.

I took those few notes and worked out a solo from them in about 30 minutes. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and now I play that solo every day. In fact, my kids (single Dad here) say that my little solo is the best sounding thing I've played on the instrument so far. And just think, I've spent weeks learning "Bridge Over Troubled Water." Now I'm thinking improvisation and blues are going to be where it's at for me and I WANT to get there in the most efficient manner without sacrificing learning any essential things along the way. I've got to know if I'm paddling my boat in the right direction when it comes to practice, and not zig zagging all over the place in the material and techniques I choose to study.

Here's another example of what I'm talking about. 25 years ago, I was stationed in England while in the Air Force. There was this guy in the barracks learning to play the sax. Every night we could hear him. For the first several months, we heard him fumbling around with basic stuff. Several months after that, he was sounding decent to us. By the end of a year, I was hearing the most remarkable improvisation and free flowing music. He was entirely self taught. How did he get from point A to point B in 12 months? What sort of learning materials was he using? I have no clue whatsoever. Sure, to some people he might have still sucked, Larry Teal comes to mind, but he got there -- to the free flowing improvisation, and he's had the rest of his life to reach the standards of a perfectionist by mastering the sound and style that HE enjoys.

I find I'm not really interested in making sax playing into too much of a science and over complicating it for myself. I'm a simple minded fellow who only worries about the finer points after he gets the basics down well, and when I either find something lacking in my performance or becoming an obstacle to my path. I've seen that there is so much information out there about sax playing that I could very easily put my brain on overload and become discouraged by quickly removing all the joy from playing.

Wheww, I'm typing a novel here, but I do hope this information clarified my dilema and will hopefully help someone to help me out a bit. I feel like hollering, PLEASE SOMEONE - LAY A PATH FOR ME! *laughing* Seriously, thank you for listening to my rantings.

[DooDaa]

Dooda

Consider joining us over on the Post A Member Recording thread. We have all levels of players posting there, and as a group we give good natured, if not always accurate, comments and suggestions.

Thanks for the invitation. I'll defintely visit there. Maybe even share some of my...harruph....attempts at making music.

[Akron SaxGirl]

OMG if your too old then I need to sell mine :o
I just turned 50 and something about that number that makes you step back and say HEY! wait a minute I havent done this or I wanted to do that... well mine was the sax so.... here I am teaching myself (cant find a teacher) I think I am doing pretty good for only a little over a month and so does everyone else that hears me, be it by accident or not LOL So hey I know what you mean. I LOVE IT!!!!!
So if you want to get rid of the Essential 2000 book I wouldnt mind having that one or any of the others your ready to give up. EMail me if you want to talk about it.

[Old Charlie]

How did he get from point A to point B in 12 months?
One practice at a time. Have you found www.saxlessons.com yet?

I have incorporated this in my practice along with what my instructor gives me and it has helped tremendously, especially scales.

Too old? I'm 58. And I just heard of a gentleman who, at the age of 83, decided to learn the violin - an instrument he had wanted to learn all his life. For me, they'll have to pry my fingers off the keys... or bury me with it. :D :D :D

[JL]

Hey DooDaa, I've got some encouragement for you! First of all, IMO you got one of the best altos ever made, especially in the SOUND department. Secondly, the BLUES is where it's at!! I agree with you about the church music thing......give me the "devil's music"--the blues-- every time!

Now, you discovered an important little gem with that blues scale. Many will tell you it's overworked, but there's a reason for that (it sounds great) and if you want to play the blues, that scale is a great place to start. No matter how sophisticated your playing gets, you'll find yourself returning again and again to fragments of the blues scale, especially when you want to inject some real soul into your sound.

Blues scale formula (apply this to any major scale in all keys):

1, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7. You can play this over an entire blues progression in a given key. For example, in the key of C, you can play the C blues scale, C Eb F Gb G Bb, over all the chords. Eventually you'll want to start playing the chord tones as well (see below).

Here are a few suggestions:

Get some blues cds and play along, using the blues scale until you learn the chord progression.

Learn your major scales and the blues scale in all keys.

Continue to play along with those blues cds.

Learn your major, dominant, and minor chords in all keys.
major = 1, 3, 5, 7 of the major scale
dominant = 1, 3, 5, b7
minor = 1, b3, 5, b7
Pay particular attention to the dominant chords for playing blues. And concentrate on the b3, 3, and b7th chord tones.

Continue to play along with blues cds.

Eventually find a jam session or other folks you can play with.

There is much more, but this will get you started. All the best.

[Jerrystrick]

Doodah, Just my humble opinion, but I'd encourage you to visit the public library and borrow sheet music books. What types you ask? Anything that catches your fancy. It doesn't cost much, and you may even find stuff you can and like to play. I like the Beatles ballads i.e, Michelle, Yesterday, The long and Winding Road, et. al. Just checked out a goldmine of jazz and pop standards from the local library. Summertime, Unforgettable, Someone to Watch Over Me, Bewitched, When Your Smiling. I could go on and on, there's alot of stuff out there for free. There are several links to sites here that have free downloadable "licks" and blues phrases to work on, but as your "voice" develops you'll notice as well how easy to put a blues feel on some schmaltsy piece like "Strangers in the Night".

Ok, so go out there and get. Your neighbors will thank you for it.

[Kimo]

TOO LATE!!!! :shock: I'm 65 and just bought a new Kessler Custom Pro Tenor. If lessons are not in the picture right now, go back to the music store and buy "Standard of Excellence" Book 1 for Tenor. A great book to start with. On the back cover is a nice, full page, fingering chart you can put on the music stand for quick reference.

[BuffetBlowerDude]

I don`t think you can be TOO old to learn anything if you set your mind to it. I`m nearly 48 myself and have been learning to play tenor sax from books for about a year. I find its not so much the instrument that is the problem but more my apparent innability to get to grips with written notation. When I learn a new piece I have to constantly refer to a fingering guide to unravel the accursed code written in the book. :treble:
I have a greater ability to play by ear.....I like a tune....I find the notes on the sax.....I practice until perfect (well, I say it is...LOL) and I find this is very useful and more fulfilling than learning a tune note for note "as written".
I think we all have good days and bad days...I certainly do. On a good day I`ll play for 2 hours, swab the sax, wash the mouthpiece and smugly smirk to myself...on a bad day I pack it in after half an hour and curse myself for thinking I could ever learn to play the damn thing!
There are LOTS of good books out there, try to get one with a playalong cd, they certainly help bigtime.

Right...back to practice.....now what does that funny little squiggle thing mean again????????? :)

[saxgal58]

Hi There - I'm a late bloomer - less than a year under my belt at 46 and loving it - thanks to my private tutor (who I'm sure is the devil incarnate at times! :twisted: ) I'm around grade 6 level due to 'intense' scale studies - major, minor, bebop, blues, thirds, fourths, arpeggios etc...full range - 12 a week, by memory, plus, one new song per week, by memory, and rough improvisation on the chord structures in all keys! The thing is, you COULD do all of this by yourself, but a good, dedicated teacher, will really push you - but in the end I guess it all comes down to personal discipline - Bird, 8-12 hours a day on scales, and I whine at 2!!
Barter for lessons with a Symphony player who has contacts with schools/military etc - learn Finale and arrange scores for them (they always lose parts!) or give lessons to younger players - you don't need to be a 'licensed' pro with a degree in music to be able to teach for money.
Tim Price has lots of excellent exercises, and lots of other sites do too - I've got literally thousands of pages of stuff from Dave Liebman, Coltrane Patterns etc - just surf for 'sax exercises' on google, especially if you can get sound files too!
Two 'must buys' for me were 'Amazing Phrasing w/CD' and 'Jazz Duets - Ernie Watts/Bruce Eskovitz'.

Best,
Julie

[andrew scott]

You could try
http://www.andrewscottmusic.com/sax.htm
for a good method, even if I do say so myself.
It will help you no end if you have a teacher as well, of course.