tonal concept changes with pitch (of saxophone)

[max]

Does your tonal concept change when you switch horns?

In other words, do you like to have a complex sound on tenor, but prefer to have a sweet, pure sound on soprano?

Sounds like a dumb question, I know, but bear with me for a bit - I'll explain later... :roll:

[Mike Ruhl]

I don't think mine changes. I strive for a "full and focused" sound on whichever sax I'm playing. For me, "full and focused" translates to round chambered mpcs with a little bit of baffle, and at least medium-open facings.

[Morry]

It does change for me. I like to have a sweet sound as you mentioned on soprano, a rounder, but smooth tone on alto, and a bit of a less civilized sound on tenor. I haven't played bari enough in recent years to remember what kind of sound I was going for.

My tonal concept for alto may change soon however, since I'm going to put my YAS-61 away (except for orchestral stuff), and switch to an SX90R for alto also.

[Bootman]

Your sound concept should change accrding to the pitch or range of a given saxophones. You can't play a Sop with a bari sax embouchure and tonal approach. There will be some siliarities but this is the player coming through. Each instrument needs it's own head space or sound concept to be played effectively. It is the same for playing different styles of music.

[Razzy]

Equipment, embouchure, and breath support vary. I approach each horn differently because they are different voices. It's hard to "fill out" the sound of a bari the same way you do it with an alto. Different concept really. For me it's automatic; it just requires a good deal of time with the horn and a lot of practice and ensemble settings with it to develop your concept.

[max]

Here's where I'm going with this:

I have the extreme good fortune to have two really great sopranos - a King Marigaux (SML) and a late Buescher True Tone (which I just got yesterday).

The TT is just knocking me out - I'm finally getting the soprano sound I've always wanted. It's really nothing short of incredible!

But, when I'm playing the SML, it makes me love it too. It's got that great character to the sound that I love so much about my SML tenor.

The thing is, that kind of "character" (hard to describe - it's like a great balance of all the overtones in the sound) is a huge part of my tenor sound concept, but not really part of my soprano sound concept, which is more pure.

The TT sounds like I've always wanted to sound, but the SML sounds almost like I've always wanted to sound (I've only had it for a month or two), plus it has that "character" that I love about my tenor - it's hard not to like it in the soprano, but I really don't think it's what I'm after.

It's just been an odd experience. I can only keep one of these sopranos, so it's been really tough to figure it out - not that I'm complaining about getting to choose between two of the best sopranos ever made. :wink:

[saxshooter]

I have totally different sound concepts for my alto and soprano.

On alto, I'm playing on a Dukoff D8 with La Voz medium reeds and try to go for a very bright, cutting sound. It leans almost towards a Sanborn-ish kind of thing.

On soprano, I play on a Bari hard rubber .64 and Hemke 3 1/2 or 4 reeds and go for more of a Branford Marsalis-sound from the 80's. Very round and warm.

It was those two sounds that influenced me during that period in the 80's when I was developing my voice on those instruments.

In the past I tried to fill out my Alto sound, when I moved away from the Sanborn thing, switching to a Yanagisawa Metal mouthpiece (which doesn't have the extreme baffle that the Dukoff has) and tried stiffer reeds. I even tried a Meyer 6M for a while, but I eventually went back to the Dukoff D8 because the sound wasn't cutting through the electric instruments in the situations I was playing in.

The Bari mouthpiece on the soprano has pretty much been constant. For me, playing a Dukoff on a soprano would have been unthinkable, since I really can't stand Kenny G's thin tone. So I'm bright on alto and dark and round on the soprano. I put the alto down for the soprano when the original tunes that we were playing called for it.

It's also a totally different embrochure approach, but since they were two totally different instruments and tonal concepts, I got used it.

[tyler_terlecki]

i too, for different saxes take my sound differently, even on the same sax i try different things for different "occasions"

on alto sax while playing jazz, i go for a bright yet soft tone, a flexible tone would be more precise, able to play softly and very rough.

on alto classical, i use a selmer C**, giving my sound a very round, and very dark tone, great for debussy or glazounov,

on soprano, i always use a selmer C** with V16 reeds, i have a round tone, able to go from smooth to rough to huge, whatever.

on tenor, i havent really tried much yet, but i havent played tenor in years either,

on bary, i try to put the bary in the garbage( i was forced to pay it when i was young and now dont like it) no offence to bary lovers.


overall, i look for a flexible tone on whatever horn i play, so i express any emotion i feel while i play, and so far, everything is perfect, i wouldnt change my sound for any oter, and im 19

[Roger Aldridge]

Max,

My experience with a TT soprano is similar to yours. Last year I got a 1928 TT that gave me the soprano sound I've always wanted. What a horn! I was so happy with the sound and intonation of the vintage Buescher soprano that I looked around and found a 1929 TT alto to go with my soprano. It, too, is an absolutely great sounding horn.

To answer your question....

I have a similar tonal concept for alto and soprano. I like a full, rich, darker sound. However, they are different instruments. Thus, I find that I approach each one differently in terms of playing style. My tonal concept on c-melody is still evolving. I've been doing a lot of experimentation with it over the past 2 years. The c-melody has a naturally unique sound and I've been have a great time exploring it's different qualities. I tend to like a somewhat lighter sound on it than my other horns.

I use Morgan mouthpieces and Alexander Classique reeds on all of my horns. Thus, they aren't going to sound radically different from one another. I use large chamber pieces on soprano and alto. The c-melody mouthpiece I use is a bit different. I think of it as a large chamber piece. But, when Ralph Morgan made it for me he worked in a really nice touch. It's based on a Morgan 6M tenor mouthpiece. The length and chamber volume have been modified to be correct for a c-melody. But, the M model has a bit more baffle than his regular large chamber pieces. This helps to give my c-melody more projection, easier response, and a lighter sound.

[max]

Thanks for all the replies!

I realized something as I was thinking about this overnight - "tonal concept" is far too big a term for what I'm describing.

I do have a distinct tonal concept for soprano that does come out no matter which sop I'm playing (including my Ser III). It is a totally different approach than I take on the tenor.

What I'm talking about is more like adjusting the EQ of the sound. The SML has a similar character/overtone mix to my tenor, within my tonal concept for soprano. Still sounds like me on soprano, just with a slightly different balance of overtones.

It's funny how the most subtle differences make such a huge difference to our ears...

(and yes, I've settled on the TT - what a killer horn!!)

[Razzy]

on bary, i try to put the bary in the garbage( i was forced to pay it when i was young and now dont like it) no offence to bary lovers.


overall, i look for a flexible tone on whatever horn i play, so i express any emotion i feel while i play, and so far, everything is perfect, i wouldnt change my sound for any oter, and im 19

It's ok, we'll let you slide since you spelled bari wrong twice in a row :wink:

And it is strange how young you can find your sound concept. At 17 I've got my concept down on alto, tenor, soprano, and bari, pretty much. They're actually quite similar to yours: I try to achieve a similar concept on all the horns but I use somewhat different equipment. On alto I use a Meyer 5M for both jazz and classical and whatever else but change my reeds accordingly (rico grand concert select and rico jazz select). On tenor, I do the same exact thing except with a 6M. On soprano I play a Selmer metal classic E with RJS 3s reeds, pretty flexible but overall "warm" setup. On bari I use a selmer s80 E and also vary my reeds accordingly.

Now if I could only figure out this clarinet :twisted:

[max]

And it is strange how young you can find your sound concept

Don't be surprised if it changes, though! :P

Your tastes may change, your air production will mature, etc... I thought I had it all together when I was your age, too. In collegt though, I not only outgrow my equipment, but I also changed how I wanted to sound on tenor (my main horn). It's just a natural part of the process...

[tyler_terlecki]

It's ok, we'll let you slide since you spelled bari wrong twice in a row :wink:



well, actually from my point of view, i didnt, since i goto frech school and in frech its witha y:P[/quote]

[Razzy]

Darn! Next time Gadget, next time... :twisted:

[tyler_terlecki]

oh and i did not mean FRECH school, i meant french, lol

[Media Lint]

I have several horns, I'm faithful to none. It depends on my mood and what my projects call for. I often switch around when I realize one isn't cutting through or cutting through too much. I select tenor or alto based on the desired range and key. Then I still have options. Sometimes I start on tenor and find an alto more desireable ... this doesn't seem to occur in reverse.