How could yamaha allow the G1 neck to be so flawed?

[sinkdraiN]

My music rep brings by all the yamaha horns that come in to the shop. I enjoy playing the new horns. ALL the new yamahas with the G1 neck are completely out of tune with itself. Two 62II tenors played fine until you played high C, then every note above that went a little less than a half step sharp. I tried many mouthpieces and had a friend try it as well with the same results. I recently played three 62II altos and all three of them went almost a half step flat from middle C down. I had a student try one without telling him about the pitch prolems and he pinpointed it immediately. An out of tune horn is not worth 100 dollars IMHO. I play a custom alto with the M1 and I am very curious to see how the custom plays with the G1 neck from the 62II I am testing. Yamaha claims that they have a solution and is replacing the G1 necks with an improved one. However, I can not figure out why this was not caught earlier. Did they even play test them?

[Andrew]

Wow...are you sure it just wasn't the horns you tried? I've tried all those horns listed above and they all were amazing horns...no intonation problems or anything.

[psyguy]

I purchased an 82Z tenor at a local music store. I had a pro musician try it out and, yes, the G1 neck is flawed. I spoke with Kurt Witt at Yamaha and he stated resolutely that they are producing a revised G1 neck that will correct the upper register pitch problem. It should be available approximately mid-April. By the way, when we swapped the M1 neck from the 875 to the 82Z, the intonation problem was corrected.
The pro musician was so impressed with the horn's projection, resonance, and keywork, that he recommended it over closeout 62 and 875 models that he/we tried. He plays a 1950's vintage Mark VI and he remarked that the 82Z is the next best horn to his beloved Mark VI.
You ask a valid question. I, too, wondered how they could have missed this flaw before sending out the first batch. My guess, unconfirmed by Yamaha, is that they used a prototype neck in testing the horns prior to boxing and sending them to dealers. They probably did NOT test the corresponding-to-horn and boxed-to-dealer neck. A horn restoration fellow near me opined that the octave hole is probably punched in the wrong place. That was just his opinion. It would be intereting, however, to have Yamaha explain the genesis of the production error.

[Morry]

I had heard that the initial run of necks was good, but something happened to chang the manufacturing process. So, some early horns were fine, but the major production runs after that time had the bad necks. Who knows?

[psyguy]

Morry-

I think you are right. I seem to recall the Yamaha warranty dept suggesting that as a reason for the G1 neck problem.

[Morry]

It is somewhat of a catastrophe for a company that has always been known for its wonderful intonation.

[Brian]

I play an 875 with G1 neck and the intonation is spot on. Best of any horn Ive ever tried.

[sinkdraiN]

Brian, I play a custom with an M1 neck. The G1 neck did not seem to cause as many tuning problems on my custom as it did on the 62II it came with. My M1 neck cleared up the tuning problems on the 62II though. The whole thing is weird. Im glad to see yamaha owning up to it and coming up with a solution for those who already bought these horns.

[Brian]

I agree with you SD. Yanaha, at least is working to straighten the controversy out.

I also agree that there is a critical relationship between the horn and neck. The G1 on one bore will not necessarily give the same results as another bore. This would make perfect sense to me. No difference the the same concept with mouthpiece chamber sizes.

[Joe Jazz]

Anybody besides Saxboy tried the F1 necks? How do they differ from the M1. Am wondering whether to forego the "fixed" G1 on my ordered 82Z alto for an F1....

[psyguy]

I'm going to try the revised G1 neck. If it is a failure, I will try the F or M1 neck.

[Bill08690]

The first few inches of the small end of the neck influences the palm key tuning. Other manufactures have had these problems before. I'm sure Yamaha will fix the problem.

[Jedi2427]

I had been playing old YTS-62's for a few years. I have recently sold them and bought two new YTS-62II's in serial numeric sequence. The new G-1 necks which came with the horns played sharp above high C also. I bought a F-1 neck on ebay because I play a lot os gigs and couldn't use the original necks on gigs. The F-1 neck fixed the problem of tuning, and sounds really great on the the new 62II's. I Will try the revised G-1 necks when they are available, but if they suck I have no problem using the F-1 neck.

I also had in my posession one of the first un-lacquered YTS-82Z's with a G-1 neck, which was badly out of tune. My old 62 neck fixed the problem right away. The 82Z is a very unique horn, even with my old 62 neck, but check this out... I put the flawed G-1 neck on my old YTS-62 tenor, and even though it was out of tune, the sound was a big big improvment from top to bottom. Even though I liked the 82Z sound, I went with new 62II's, mostly because Yamaha has revised the octave key mechanisim and nut, so that any Custom neck will fit and play on the sax. (I believe the neck is a huge factor in determining the saxophone's sound) Along with improved steel springs, the new 62II is a great horn that just got better. [/b]

[SaxHack]

I just got off the phone with a product manager intern at Yamaha. She says the problem is ONLY with tenors; the necks were initially 8mm too short and they have fixed the problem. It appears to be between the buyer and dealer to work out a solution if a problem exists. Just reporting what I was told.

[scale_master]

I heard that some of the Altos have the same problem. Haven't played one myself, they are not available here yet.
I was about to mail order a YAS82Z, but hearing all these rumors, I will stick with Selmer ; have played them for the last 20 tears, and never had any problems. Oh, I had a Super Action I Alto once that had an intonation problem with C# 2, turned out it was the setup, not a major construction problem :wink: .
Anyway, it is sad to see that Yamaha might loose market share due to this. Why don't they just publish the cause of the problem and serial number range and the horn types that have this problem on their webpage? Any car manufacturer does that. This would be transparent customer service...

B.

[katysax]

A couple of years ago I got a Yamaha Custom alto with the G1 neck. I had intonation problems in the palm keys. My teacher said the horn was fine, but I couldn't get it to play in tune. A year ago I talked to the Yamaha rep at NAMM, and the admitted they had problems with the neck. He even told me the reason it was taking so long to get the tenor G1 into production was intonation problems. I finally sold my Custom Alto. At the moment I'm alternating between a Keilwerth and a Yanagisawa alto. I played some 82Zs (alto and tenor) at NAMM. I'd love an 82Z tenor, but I'm waiting for the neck issue to be indisputably fixed.

[averageschmoe]

if i remember correctly yamaha intentionally lowered the palm key tone holes to compensate for people's tendencies to play the upper end sharp. the idea of the G1 neck was to bring the range back in tune. of course this is just what i've come to understand from a second hand conversation (a close friend spent about an hour talking to eugene rousseau about mouthpieces and horns at namm a few years back, and rousseau had much to say about the custom). coming from a school where yamahas are practically gospel i've had many opportunities to play on G1 customs and have yet to find one with less than impeccable intonation. which is why i traded my guardala tenor in on my yts875, and why i'm now eagerly looking forward to trying the new G1 tenor necks.