A sampling of the million questions I have...

[fballatore]

Hi all!

I discovered this forum at about the time I decided (after 30 years of wanting) to buy an alto saxophone and learn how to play. It's been a great help so far.

At 47, my goal is not to become a pro (obviously), but I want to be good enough to entertain others, and play informally in a group if the occasion arises.

I've played piano and guitar, and with those instruments, it's easy on day one to play a good sounding chord and some notes. Obviously, the sax is a totally different animal. I just got my sax yesterday, and all I can produce are "wounded duck" sounds. If I practice regularly, how long will it take before it starts to sound better?

Most of what I've seen so far says that 30-45 minutes of practice a day 5-6 days a week is proper. Is that enough? I remember practicing piano for a couple of hours a day.

I thought I'd try to learn on my own with the help of several sources I've found on the internet, but after my first practice session, I don't see how that's possible. I have just too many questions. How do I know that my embouchure is correct? Am I blowing too hard? Too soft? Is my sax set up correctly? Only answers I can get from a live teacher. Is it futile to try to learn without taking live lessons?

Since I don't know how far I'll go, I bought a very inexpensive new sax, figuring I'll upgrade in a year or so. Just about everything I've read on forums and on the internet since I ordered it absolutely trashes this kind of horn. Based on the price I paid (on eBay), I'm guessing it was made in China, and the engraved name on it says "Sky USA". Anyone ever heard of that? Having said that, it looks great to a novice like me (maybe I don't know any better). I'd like some opinions here if possible on this.

Well, enough rambling for now. Thanks in advance for your help!

[saxmanglen]

Someone once said, "Practice doesn't make perfect it makes permanent".

Now that was in relation to my golf game. The lack of formal training has plagued me with permanently ingrained poor habits on the golf course.

Fortunately when I was younger my folks saw to it that I had a private instructor to get me started in a correct way on the sax. Some 25+ years later ,with an 18 year period I didn't play much at all, I was able to come back again and play decently with the foundation laid years ago.

Check with some local players or horn shops and see who's who in the instruction end. It will pay big dividends now and later.

[Newkstime]

I am a teacher and have a number of adult students.. I also teach an adult jazz program.

I really think that it is so important to get a private teacher. Develop good habits and make the whole process more relaxing and fun. I find with lots of adults that there is a good amount of anxiety and I often have a hard time convincing them how well they are doing.

At the Arts center where I teach we also have a New Horizons program which is designed for adult beginners.. If there is one in your area check it out. Getting together with others is a great motivation to stick with it over time.

[KEN K]

Your Sky horn is bottom of the barrel cheap chinese stuff, If it plays I guess you are O K. They need work most of the time even when new.

[Crumit]

Congrats on getting a sax! I started a year and a half ago, when I was thirty-eight, and I know it can seem a little overwhelming at first. The duck sounds are typical for a beginner, so don't let that scare you. A really good idea would be to find a teacher, at least to get you started. Most music stores have instructors, or can recommend someone. It would also be a good idea to have someone look over your horn, to make sure it is adjusted properly. Even one leaking pad can cause you to have to work really hard to make a decent sound.

It doesn't take long to progress when you are a beginner. Within a week or two you will probably be able to play simple tunes, and from there it's up to you. For practicing, I try to give myself an hour per day (not always possible), and more on weekends if I feel like it. I am still a long way from where I want to be, but I found a great teacher and I'm enjoying myself.
That's the important thing. Have fun, and good luck!

[Newkstime]

Oh man.. just saw that part about the Sky Horn..... you can't learn on something like that.... Those cheap horns are just a nightmare... frustration on a case. For beginner horns my favourite is the Yamaha Yas 23... Easy to play, easy to repair... though they aalmost never have problems.

Saxophones are expensive instruments and there just isn't any way around it. If you can find a good used Yamaha and have it tuned up by a respected tech in the area and find a good teacher you will have such a more rewarding experience.

Fighting a bad horn is so frustrating !

[HC]

As far as saxes go, I have to agree to find another one. I also recommend the Yamaha YAS-23. It was my first saxophone and is still my only alto. One of the most frustrating things that I have encountered is to learn a new instrument on something that turns out to be broken. The difficulty, especially for a novice, is to determine whether the problem is the person or the instrument.

I'd also recommend a private teacher. While teaching myself clarinet (I learned sax first), I encountered many problems that took me days to figure out that would of taken a few minutes with a private teacher.

[danny_w]

Hi! I'm 52 and also just started on the sax, so I'm in a similar boat. I first tried teaching myself based on what I found on the internet, but had so many questions about the right way to do things (is the moutpiece in far enough? too far? how hard should i have to blow? etc) that it quickly became apparent to me that I needed to find a live teacher. I'm so glad I did! It has made things so much easier, and has been well worth the money in lost aggravation and peace of mind. I feel like I have progressed very rapidly (it may not seem like that to those that have to hear me). I'm having so much fun, I can hardly wait to get home from work so that I can practice. So find a teacher and stick with it!

[fballatore]

Thanks for all the responses!

I called a local music store that specializes in saxes and other woodwind and brass instruments. I asked if they would look at my budget sax and give me an honest opinion of its quality. Over the phone, he gave me the same advice as many of you - trash the horn! He agreed to let me bring it in, and look at it anyway. He looked it over, spent 10-15 minutes testing it, and surprisingly said that it was a decent instrument, and would be fine for a beginner like me. This was coming from someone that was already prejudiced against the sax before seeing it, and was not happy that it was purchased from eBay instead of a local store. He also had some unkind things to say about what the Chinese are doing to the industry by producing these low cost horns. Based on this, and since my plan is to step up to a "real" sax after a year or so of lessons, I'll take my chances with this one.

As it turns out, the owner also runs a studio in addition to the music store, and he said that there was an excellent teacher available that works quite a bit with older students, so I signed up for lessons. The owner told me that since I'd be taking lessons there, he'd maintain my sax for free!
I'm very excited, and can't wait to start my lessons. I'll keep everyone up to date.

Thanks,

Frank

[saxmanglen]

Smart move Frank. You'll get on the right track from the beginning. Congrats on signing up for lessons. Have fun and keep blowing.

Glen

[HC]

Excellent move in getting your sax checked out. I am glad that you are lucky enough to find someone who gave an honest opinion of your sax instead of telling you to junk it. I wish you the best of luck in your pursue of saxophone. Feel free to ask us any questions you might have.

[steve]

I can only comment based on my experience. I'm self-taught ( don't) but I learned on a good horn ( MVI tenor) (do).
I regret not having had lessons...I'm sure I would have progressed much faster with some help. I plan on finding a good teacher to help me undo bad habits.
I don't regret learning on a good horn. If you amortize the cost over the number of years you plan to play and the satisfaction you will get from a good sounding horn, the extra cost is easily justified. Also, resale value of a good horn should be better. If you are serious, I suggest that you keep the student horn as a backup and get a decent pro quality horn.

[Gandalfe]

I suspect that if fballatore makes it through a year of lessons and is still interested in playing, he will make the move to a professional sax. It is just the nature of the beast. And if he doesn't last a year, he got off cheap.

[steve]

But....is he more likely to make the year with a horn that may discourage him? Or will his motivation and excitement to play outweigh the problems with the cheapo horn? I can only relate to how it worked for me...when I switched from a crap horn to the VI I really got fired up to practice and improve...plus I couldn't blame the horn for my duck honks.

[fballatore]

Gandalfe -

Exactly. I absolutely plan to move up to a much better horn if I continue. It might not even take me a year to make that decision. I couldn't justify spending $1,000+ on the sax if this (lessons, practice, committment) turns out to be something I can't handle. I feel so much better that I had an expert check out my sax. It actually sounded good to me when he played it for a couple of minutes (he thought so too). I was all set to return it if he gave me the thumbs down. I start lessons on January 5, and can't wait. I bought a couple of books and a DVD, and I'll try to teach myself the basics and practice until my first live lesson.

Happy Holidays everyone!

Frank

[fballatore]

Well....

Thanks everyone for your comments. I've returned the cheapo sax, and think I got a good deal on a used YAS-23. I'll have it in a couple of days, and start lessons next Wednesday. I can't wait to get going - I'm very excited!

Thanks again!

[saxchado]

good move! I hope you enjoy your sax as much as we all do ours.

[Greyduster]

Remember:
"Amateurs practise till the get it right. Professionals practise till they can't get it wrong".

I should point out that I am a rank amateur. The major component to being a pro is the the time to practise that much.

[Gandalfe]

I should point out that I am a rank amateur. The major component to being a pro is the the time to practise that much.

I'd add and the passion; time and passion to practice that much. When you talk about the passion necessary to succeed I am always reminded of the following quote:

"My life is music. And in some vague, mysterious, and subconscious way, I have always been driven by a taut inner spring which has propelled me to almost compulsively reach for perfection in music, often-- in fact, mostly-- at the expense of everything else in my life." -- Stan Getz (1927-91)

[fballatore]

The latest comments bring me back to a question I had earlier...

Is 1/2 an hour to 3/4 hour of practice a day for 5-6 days a week enough? Most things that I've read seem to say that if you practice more than that, you'll lose more than you retain. I just don't understand that... Everything else that I do fairly well involves as much practice or repetition as I can give. I would think that especially something like playing the sax that relies so heavily on the embouchure would benefit by as much practice as possible. Isn't the embouchure mostly about "muscle memory"? Or am I wrong? At this stage of my life, there are so many things competing for my time, but I think I can put at least an hour a day (and sometimes more) into practicing. Wouldn't that get me to a stage of competency sooner? I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

Thanks!

[HC]

You could only practice or play for so long before your embouschur becomes sore enough that you simply could not play any more. As time goes on, you'll build up more and more of a resistance. So I'd say practice as long as possible.

[tensopbass]

Buy a really flash, expensive horn for two reasons. 1. You'll get lots of help cos nobody likes to hear a good horn played badly. 2. Every time the repayment is due you redetermine to play it well so you don't have to admit you made a bad choice! nicko

[rini]

Well, 3/4 hours might be enough..but only if your overall playing ability is already top class.

I'd say 2 hours is a minimum. 3-5 times a week. If you can, if you have time, play as much as you're able to. 'Until you drop'' :lol:

And of course you must know what and how to practice. Sometimes it's very difficult to advance, sometimes you have days when you're able to play anything. Good days, bad days. That's life, you've to accept it.

I'm now 66 and have played professionally since 21. I put the horn down in '85 and started to play again some years ago. It was quite easy to 'return'. I'm no virtuoso, but I try to practice at least 2-3 hours a day, 3-4 times a week. And if I have time and feel that the enviroment is permissible, I try to play more, and more often.

rini