I am 18. Can I start with Tenor directly or only alto first?

[Stanley]

Greetings all!

I am 18 years old and I am interested in learning the flute and the sax. As far as sax is concerned, I wonder whether I have to start off with the alto only or can I get the tenor as my first sax itself...

Is the tenor too big for a 18 year old to hold and play? I have seen the alto and it seems to be right size... Is the tenor much much larger than that? And, what is the average weight (lbs or kgs) of an alto and a tenor?

Apart from size, weight, and cost, is there *any* problem in starting off with tenor?

Maybe like a bass flute (larger than the concert flute), it is larger than the alto and hence need more air to be blowed in and hence require better breathing techniques and stuff, which a beginner won't be having, unless he had practised it on the easier alto before?

Kindly help me...

- Stanley

[Martin Williams]

There is nothing wrong with starting on tenor. Many people do so. The saying that everyone should start on alto sax; or in some cases clarinet, because it takes less is just a old teacher dogma. I personally started on baritone sax when I started sax (1o years old then) Good luck with learning to play!

Martin

[sw3119]

I think you would be fine starting off on tenor. Obviously it is bigger and heavier, but I don't think that should be a problem.

In some ways it may be easier to start on tenor. The smaller a horn you play, the more difficult it is to play in tune. On a bigger horn the notes, pitch wise, are farther apart. On a smaller horn they are closer together and variations in pitch become more noticeable.

I started playing tenor when I was in middle school. It was almost as big as me then. I switched to alto in high school. Now I play both.

It's really up to you. neither alto or tenor should not pose a greater problem than the other.

[Stanley]

I found this thread: http://www.saxontheweb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=20150

From what I have read, I found that the summary was:

There is less music available for Tenor (can't we just take any piano music and transpose it?)

There are no starter books for Tenor sax (Can't we use the alto sax books? After all, they both have the same fingering, right? Will there be any difference regarding position of holding, lips, etc.? If so, what all?)

The Tenor requires "More Air Support". What exactly is this?

Thanks all in advance.

- Stanley

[bariman]

Stanley,
All of your assumptions are pretty-much correct. And yes, there are definetly starter books for T sax. Tenor does require a bit more air support, but is not that much different. Air support is usually used in describing what you need to play baritone or bass sax. It is basically the ability to keep a constant amount of air moving through the sax at a constant preasure. An 18 year-old should have no problem playing tenor.

There is tons of stuff written for tenor sax! It is the most versatile in my opinion, and has the most flexible range as far as soloing. Plus, most of the other instruments not in the key of C (trumpet, Bb clarinet) are in Bb, so you can read off of other parts.

Bariman

[retread]

I do think tenor is the most difficult to play. But I'm still trying to understand the concept that the notes on a bigger horn are farther apart.
Take Concert A. The octaves are 110 Hz, 220, 440, 880, ad infinitum. Looks to me that the notes, in terms of absolute cycles per second, get farther apart a the pitch rises, but the relative values remain the same.

There. Now everyone knows my knowledge of physics rivals that of a rather dull beagle.

[steve]

I started on tenor at 14.....picked up the alto much later. I would consider what type of music you like and want to play. Classical: alto; blues and rock: tenor; jazz: either. These are generalizations...I have heard some killer alto players in blues bands...but I agree with the notion that the tenor is the most versatile. Listen to some players to get an idea of what a well played horn sounds like. Tenor: Stan Getz/Stanley Turrentine/ Dexter Gordon/Lenny Pickett come to mind. Alto: Cannonball Adderly/Paul Desmond/ Charlie Parker/Maceo Parker.

[tenor562]

I started on tenor at twelve, and I'm one of the shortest eighth graders. My hands are pretty small too, I tried to play bari, couldn't reach the keys. You'll be fine on tenor and the only problem will be lugging it around everywhere.

[bariman]

OK here is some stuff strait from the books:

Retread: To understand the physics behind sound, you must understand that sound is in essence the vibration of molecules in a space. How fast the molecules vibrate determines pitch. The speed of the wave is demonstrated by the wavelength, or the distance from one crest to another crest, or one trough to another trough. As more enery is added to a wave, the particles move faster, and the wavelength becomes shorter.

the bps (beats per second) of a wave is directly related to it's wavelength. A=440 means that the medium that is facilitating the wave is completing 440 waves every second. As you add more energy, the wave moves faster, which say pushes the bps up to 500. Since the waves are closer together, a higher pitch is registered in our brains.

The octave, or a double of bps, doubles how fast that sound wave moves. The trick is that you have to think of bps as the # of waves, so as the number gets bigger, the pitch gets higher. Your theory is essentially backwards. :wink:

OK thats about my limit for big words tonight, I think i'll go to bed early. :roll:

Bariman

[Mel]

Bariman, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with your textbook. :)

To understand the physics behind sound, you must understand that sound is in essence the vibration of molecules in a space. How fast the molecules vibrate determines pitch.

Yes.

The speed of the wave is demonstrated by the wavelength, or the distance from one crest to another crest, or one trough to another trough. As more enery is added to a wave, the particles move faster, and the wavelength becomes shorter.

Not quite. The speed of a wave is dependent upon the medium it's moving in. The frequency of a wave is dependent upon the source. The wavelength of a wave is dependent upon the velocity and frequency of the wave. So what this means is that as a sound wave moves, its frequency will be the same as the source, but its velocity and wavelength can change.

the bps (beats per second) of a wave is directly related to it's wavelength. A=440 means that the medium that is facilitating the wave is completing 440 waves every second. As you add more energy, the wave moves faster, which say pushes the bps up to 500. Since the waves are closer together, a higher pitch is registered in our brains.

Yes, there is a relationship between the frequency and wavelength of a wave, and yes, A440 means that 440 cycles are completed per second. However, keep in mind that the speed of a wave and the frequency of the wave are VERY different. When more energy is added, the particles are vibrating faster, but the speed of the wave is the same.


Retread,

Yes, I agree that the difference between notes (in terms of cycles per second) increases as the pitch rises, but I'm not sure what you mean by the "the notes on a bigger horn are farther apart." Are you asking why the keys on a big horn are placed farther apart when the difference in frequencies is smaller?

-->Back to physics: The fundamental frequency (the main note--not overtones) of a tube closed at one end is f=v/(4L), where f is the frequency, v is the velocity, and L is the tube length. If you graph this function, you'll see that a hyperbola forms. So, when the length of the tube is short, little changes will make a big difference. As the length of the tube gets longer, you will need bigger changes to the length to change the pitch significantly. Hope that helps.

[retread]

Mel: "the notes on a bigger horn are farther apart" was sw3119's statement. I should have made it clear that I was quoting him. That was the comment I was questioning.

[Mel]

:oops: Whoops. Sorry, retread. Yes, now your post makes much more sense! :D

[bariman]

Mel,
Your right. It's been a while sence I brushed up on that stuff, and "out of the textbook" was just an expression. We definetly need to come up with some good animations here. It's kinda hard to understand in just words, you know? By the way, it was a little late at night when I wrote that, and I didn't bother to check it. Anyway, thanks for the clarification (sp?),

Bariman

[Mel]

No worries, Bariman! :rr: