No more bari

[Jimbob]

In my old topic, I needed help on the baritone sax because I finally got into wind ensemble but my teacher switched instruments on me (I used to play alto but she is making me play bari) and I tried playing the baritone sax but I was having problems.

Well... I'm still having problems with the baritone sax, and I REALLY don't feel comfortable playing in the wind ensemble band. I'm sounding like crap and I know my band teacher hears me but she doesn't say anything. I was trying to tell my band teacher that I was struggling and needed help but she just said oh it takes time. So I kept on bringing the huge baritone home on the bus and I practiced about 2 or 3 hours each day. Well I finally had a private lesson with my saxophone teacher and I talked to him and told him how my band teacher switched instruments on me and he just laughed and he told me that baritones are NOT supposed to be carried home (and no way on the bus).

I talked to my counsler, I quit band, I didn't even give back the sheet music, I just left it on the baritone case at school. I'm just really angry

-My teacher didn't even give me any notice that I was going to be playing baritone, I just brought my alto sax with me at the class and she told me I'm playing baritone from now on.

-I worked hard and bought my own alto saxophone and I'm not going to be able to play it the rest 3 years of highschool

-My band teacher says that 3 years of private lessons are required to be in wind ensemble. Do they require this in other wind ensembles??

I rather just leave band, do some required classes in highschool like a foreign language, and only take private lessons. I still want to do jazz band but I really don't like my band teacher. Ugh I wish I could find some kids around at my school who like to play jazz and we could form a band 8)

haha oh well, the baritone is a really fun instrument to play. Hopefully someday I'll make $5,000 and I can get one :D

[Quentin]

So...what are you like 16 years old?

I'm not really that much older than you, but I have finished a master's degree and now play in a military band. Whenever anyone gets "stuck" on bari the first reaction is always a bad one. And if you think that this will be the last time you ever get "stuck" on bari...think again.

Guess what I auditioned on for this gig...alto. Guess what I played in the section the first year I was here...bari. When I first moved into a city and tried to get an "in" with the local rehearsal big band what do think they asked me to play...bari.

A friend of mine quit band when we were in high school because he and the director didn't see eye to eye. Be careful not to blame the bari for communication problems between you and your band director.

In your defense though...I assume you've been playing a bari owned by the school. Do you know if it really is in good repair? Maybe some of your woes are because you're fighting the horn. I didn't see your old thread so I don't know. You mentioned taking bari to your lesson...does your teacher play a lot of bari? Was your teacher able to help?

I don't know anything about you or your director, but I would say be careful not to burn any bridges. Do you really want to throw away your whole high school band experience over one misunderstanding you're having?

Hope this doesn't sound preachy...just know that you're not the first one to be in a situation like this and this won't be the last time you experience a situation like this with the saxophone or other areas of life.

Good luck and best wishes,
Quentin

[kcp]

I don't know why but there is something that makes me feel mad about Jimbob's story :?

I mean the bari is a pretty big thing to carry back and fowarth from home to school. I think that to the very least, the school should provide two baris, one for home and one for school. No???

Otherwize, this is what you get; A student who gets discouraged and who give-up band. That's a real shame!

[Quentin]

Oh...I just found your old thread.

Y'know could you post a picture of your embouchure? (on both instruments...alto and bari) I'd be interested to see that along with hearing sound bites on both alto and bari.

If you're interested...

[Quentin]

Kim,

You make a great point. But do most schools own more than one or two WORKING bari saxes? Mine didn't...and that's a shame.

Where I work we own 7. And I think 2 are in GREAT shape. 2 more are passable, but the others are in dire need of repair!

But maybe a little time spent after school at school? Maybe Jimbob's teacher doing his bari lessons at the school? There have to be other options.

Before I had a car I always had friends who carted me back and forth. That was cooler than taking any of my horns on the bus. Maybe that's an option.

just a thought...

[HC]

I am very disappointed

Took me 3 months before I stopped squeaking on Bb clarinet (I taught myself clarinet after knowing alto)

Took me a month before I could go over the "break" on Bass clarinet without squeaking

Took me another month before I could hit the high G consistantly on bass clarinet without squeaking

Took me more than a month to play Contra Alto clarinet "fluently"

I practiced my butt off and became the only person in my year to move from the lowest to the highest band (there's 3 bands in my school), but got switched from bass to contra alto clarinet. I never knew about the instrument change until the results came out.

I had lugged a bass clarinet on a bus for a month and half have lugged a contra on the bus a few times (4 and half feet tall case) That thing squeaked and sounded like crap. Unlike other clarinets, it was the low notes that got squeaky. O'yeah, and I HAVE lugged a bari home (YBS-52, 40 pounds with case) home many times. Made a lot of enemies on the bus this way.

What you did was nothing, at least... I didn't feel that you approached it the right way.

Well... the payback for all my effort...
-Not many people could say they had played on 3 kinds of clarinet and 2 kinds of saxophone.
-Highest band in school with students that ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING in band. (I've heard a new person in the lowest band can't even hold a trumpet correctly (!))
-No compeitition, First chair baby :D (only chair if you want to say it that way)
-Have a heck of a better chance getting into all-state.
-And have finally found my "favorite" instrument, (though I like em all)

I know I may have sounded harsh, but I am clearly disappointed. The more effort you put into something, the bigger the payback. With Bari, you had an opportunity to move up in band, which you didn't with alto. You got your chance, why give up now? [/b]

[Jimbob]

Yeah, Well there's a LOT of people from band who quit too. Our school got a new band teacher last year and I think about 10 or more Seniors quit band because of her. Some of the students even made a web petition, trying to get her to resign :shock: (I doubt that would work though) Here is what they said about our band teacher in the petition -

1 Unknowledgeable in the field of music
2 Unknowledgeable in the field of education
3 Incapable of dealing with problems efficiently
4 Subtracting from the success of her students
5 Subtracting from the contentment of her students

anyway, I decided to take 1 year of band and see how she was. Well basically she's just a flute player from new york. There's a lot of things that we do in the class that I don't think is right. For example, We always tune in FM concert. I don't know if this is true but I heard the flute tunes in FM concert and other instruments are supposed to tune in other notes because FM can be bad. Aren't the saxophones supposed to tune in BbM concert?

I just don't think that I should do a music career anymore when I grow up, I LOVE to play music but what music job could I do that would make a lot of money? Because I am a good jazz player (for my age) but I am not THAT extremely good. I just want to get together with friends and jam sometimes. I also want to learn a few other instruments too like piano (my private lesson teacher is a piano and saxophone teacher, so maybe I can switch to piano lessons sometime)

I think even if I got better at the bari, I still wouldn't like playing in band because all the sheet music I did get for the baritone, they were all slow boring parts.

So yeah, for now, I might take jazz band (same teacher though ugh..), I'm still writing some jazzy-funk songs, I'm still gonna take lessons and maybe piano lessons too, and try to start a jazz band with some friends. Next year I will probably go back to band. Or maybe I'll just keep on doing jazz band.. ARGH I DUNNO!!! *explodes*

[Brendan Muse]

Look at it in a purely Machiavellian sense. Being in the top band usually has a certain prestige, and the band director definitely spends more time and energy on people in the top band because there are fewer of them. You can probably leverage this into a tenor or alto seat next year, if you can prove that you are good enough, and since you are right next to the tenors and altos, you have a good judge of how skilled they are.

And, if you've got a district or county band or something like that, you've got a much better shot at it on bari than on alto.

Bari players, so I've been led to believe from other posters, get more gigs, since there are much fewer of us.

Of course, there were days when I brought both my bari and bass clarinet home on the bus. The pair of them took up an entire seat bench thing. :D

By the way, it is easier to hear overtones when you tune to F major than it is when you tune to Bb major. When I was in district last year, we spent an hour of our first day tuning, and it was neat because you could hear all of the overtones. Yeah.

[kevvieg]

Ahhh ...Nothing like a little drama.

I started playing in band when I was 11 years old. I had heard Phil Woods and wanted to play saxophone. My band teacher asked me whether I wanted alto or tenor and I didn't know, but she said tenor had a richer sound so I went for it. I wound up on a "Bel Ayre" with scotch tape holding down the low C# tonehole. Nonetheless, I stuck with it and even went to a jazz band rehearsal, where I saw this bright shiny (HUGE) saxophone being played by one of the teachers. I guess none of the kids wanted to play it. By this time, I was 12 and stood a towering 5'2". I wanted to try it. It just felt so much better in my hands and I wanted to play it. Needless to say that was 25 years ago. I didn't account for the weight and I thought my arms would fall off carrying it to school. (That's right: no bus, and few drives). By the time I hit high school, I was able to leave the bari at school and PRACTISE THERE, eliminating the need to do much bus travelling. Occasionally, I would have to carry it home on the bus (not a school bus, but local transit). I would get grief from bus drivers and other passengers and I would offer to pay an extra fare. The driver would mutter and not accept the double fare, realizing that his argument had no validity if I were willing to pay for my bari's seat. I reasoned that if strollers were free and cluttered the aisles just as much, I had a right to my sax once in a while.

While in high school, I also took up clarinet and bass clarinet and I put a combo together in which I started to also play tenor and alto. I practised alto and clarinet at home, and the larger instruments at school, ensuring that I was always physically prepared for gigs. by the time I hit university, I owned an alto, clarinet, and flute. I wanted to spend some time on alto in my senior year of high school because I knew I wouldn't be able to afford a baritone. What happened when I hit university? I wound up on baritone for 3 of my 4 years. It was explained to me that good alto and tenor players are a dime a dozen (good, not great). But good bari players are much more rare, and that I was a good bari player. Given that my teacher had spent eight years with Woody Herman, I took that as a compliment, rather than a means to "stick" me with baritone. He told me I was good on all my instruments, but so were a lot of people, and that I would stick out more as a strong baritone player. This was not a man who gave compliments, so I took that and ran with it.

My point is that I was just a puny kid from small-town Canada who took some initiative in trying a new thing, expanding my repertoire of music and instruments, and embracing new challenges. I had instruments that were falling apart and I made it a point to see that they got repaired (quid pro quo for playing bari). I created gigs for myself. I didn't like playing bari in concert band because that band director and I had philosophical differences regarding repertoire. What did I do? I played clarinet where I felt more challenged. I was cocky and arrogant, but instead of bailing, I insisted on the opportunity to be challenged.

My teachers (before university) were ALL brass specialists. There were no private sax teachers in my area, and I wouldn't have been able to afford lessons if there were. I entered university with a love of music and desire to excel. I was the worst player there in September, but I finished my first year on the dean's list (honours). Of the 110 students who enrolled in music, 13 of us actually received the degree.

Now I am a teacher who has to deal with a broad range of personalities in my classroom. I get kids who have had private lessons from greedy hacks who taught them nothing. I get wunderkinds who can play Hindemith in grade 11 (!). I get kids who think they are very good and aren't. I get kids who are amazing and don't recognize it. I get kids who aren't very musical but they are wonderful human beings who embrace music and work their butts off to do the best they can. I get kids who are really good and know it. Inspite of all the administrative and parental politics that arise, I love my job.

I hate to see you slam your teacher when you may only know part of the story. We can't all be masters of all the instruments. I am a terrible brass player, but I seek advice from colleagues and pass that on to my students who play brass. I have made mistakes as a teacher and I have bruised a few fragile egos. I have had frustrated gifted students who have felt "held-back" because I was teaching to the level of 80% of my students.

Have you considered that the teacher may have too many people who want to play alto, clarinet, etc>? That the most popular instruments don't make up a balanced ensemble? You need French Horns (freedom horns according to dubya), oboes, euphoniums, etc. Part of being mature is taking one for the team and thinking about what might be best for the ensemble. Would you quit a baseball team if you were put in centre field when you wanted to be short-stop?? Have you made an appointment to see this teacher OUTSIDE of class time where you can talk one-on-one, or with a guidance counsellor? Teachers are human and don't like to be challenged in front of their classes. They will get defensive if threatened. Have you had the bari appraised regarding its mechanical condition? Have you chosen a proper mouthpiece?

Don't get me wrong, your teacher could be a total boob, but if that's the case, you will have to deal with such people for the rest of your life. I would work on coping with such things now. Band is a wonderful thing: Cameraderie, discipline, expression, and responsibility are all wrapped up in the experience. Unlike sports, you'll still be able to pick up the sax when you are 80 years old. Don't let a misunderstanding ruin your high school music experience, and don't feel that it's a wise move to bail out when the going gets tough.

You are born cold, naked, and crying. It goes downhill from there :-)

[Quentin]

nice post kevvieg2.

[Shaun SS]

I first started playing Bari in 7th grade. Played in in 7th and 8th grade for the concert band and in Jazz band. Unlike you I was asked if I would like playing it to fill out the bottom of the band. I have to tell you, I loved playing Bari.

Nothing like being in the middle of a solo in Jazz band, the audience is fading away and then bam, nail a hard driving low A to wake everyone up.

I as well had to carry the bari home on the bus. I also live up a steep hill that was almost 1/4 mile long. I had to stop many times to switch arms and some times even take a breather.

Not all bari parts are slow and boring. Make your teacher a deal. "I'll play bari if I can help you pick some of the charts" Make it compermise and find some charts that are not so slow and boring.

I actually haven't played bari since JR High except the other day when I went looking for a good used one. I forgot what it was like and how awesome that low rumble of the bari is.

[SaxPlayer1004]

ahh, hc, but how many people have said they have played 9 different instruments in the first two weeks of school?
i have already moved allthe way from Bb down to contra alto clarinet. moved all the way down from soprano to bari saxs. played bassoon tuba and euphonium and we have this band called "segundas" where everyone is required to play a 2nd instrument ill get stuck on flute or trumpet. lucky me. but anywho bari is an amazingly easy instrument if in proper repair. has the easiest time getting down to the low notes and is fairly easy to keep in tune etc. its true there is nothing like a low a down the bottom of a chart to wake the band up. then again theres nothing like altissimo soprano but we wont go there. i think you are taking the wrong approach at bari as is your teacher. i have always been fascinated with the extremely low instruments (bassoon and contra bassoon, tubas, bari and bass sax's, contra alto and contra bass clarinets etc) and actually asked if i could play bari. i recently bought my own and its amazing what a bari that is properly set up can do. if you are willing to pay 70 bucks or so to have your bari set up by a PROFESSIONAL (this is key) technician that 70 bucks is worth its weight in gold. the school bari i play now leaks from the low C# tone hole down. neverthe less i get stuck with tuba parts and cant play that low because its in bad repair. band director thinks its me then i bring mine in and can play it. you have to look at this optimistically, you get a lot of bassoon doubles (this ='s solos). if you really want to play alto go up to her and say, " look, i just worked really hard to buy an alto because that is what i want to play. i dont want to play bari, however im willing to give it a go this year until a senior graduates (assuming a senior is playing alto right now) and next year after he/she graduates could i move up to second part alto?" just try that. try talking to her on her level. this has always worked with me. just a thought. its a shame that you quit just beacuse of a saxophone. you can always join a community band. those are always fun.

[Brendan Muse]

Alto clarinet part, perhaps?

[SaxPlayer1004]

good point with that. you can always double that. or sometimes there are alto horn parts, of which the instrument is extremely rare in highschool.

[HC]

Read "Journey to Bari" about people bending over backwards to have a chance to play bari. http://www.saxontheweb.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=18183
There are a lot of crappy band directors, but also a lot of other crappy teachers. If your english teacher is bad, do you drop the class?

Playing bari (god know how) has made me a much better player on alto.

[SaxPlayer1004]

requires more air and breath control. and since the distance betweent he tonehole and the key is bigger on bari it causes your fingers to have to move faster. then you go to the smaller distances on a smaller horn and you can play twice as long passages at quicker tempos. also the bass lines teach you how to phrase the slow stuff properly with feeling which helps all of the alto parts that move

[Biff]

Well, I have to agree with everyone here. Stick with Bari dude, it's well worth it. Don't think of it as killing your arms, think of it as making your muscles stronger so you look good. Don't think of the air capacity as being tough, think of ht as being beneficial to your health.

I personally have benefitted from playing bari because it increased my lung capacity and helped me combat my asthma. I love playing the beast, and eventually want to get myself a Bass sax.

Oh, and don't think of it as a pain getting it home on the bus, you get the coveted seat to yourself, technically. As well, you're almost guaranteed a spot in the bands because almost no one plays it.

Don't let your music teacher stand in the way, play the music for you, not them.

Biff

[SaxPlayer1004]

i was auditioned on tenor into the allstate allstar band and got in. they told all of us to bring our baris if we had them, well we all had baris and for somereason or another there ended up being a bari per 15 people in the band. a lil too much, but being a bari player is great. have solo parts in a lot of big band music, in concertband you can always double the bassoon parts, which equates to TONS of solos. and you get about 5 times more gigs because you play. take our advice seriously dude, weve all been through what you have in one wya or another. and i bet the 80% of the people who have when they got to know the bari for what it was realized, hey this is the sexiest instrument ever and didnt turn back.

[shmuelyosef]

Kim,

You make a great point. But do most schools own more than one or two WORKING bari saxes? Mine didn't...and that's a shame....

I would urge other techs to follow this lead...I have on several occasions scored a couple old King Zephyr baris, done repads on them and then donated them to the schools...I got them for <<$500 and put $50 of pads in...if I value them reasonably (say >$1500 for a good, working bari) then the tax writeoff nearly covers all my expenses and it is just my time that is donated. I feel good about it, especially if I do it in the off season when I am not so busy.

[electricninja]

You want to play alto? Play alto. I don't care if anyone short of Jesus Christ or the Prophet Mohammed come down from the clouds with a bari for you. It's your life. If the wind ensemble director won't budge, then the heck with him/her. :evil:

When I quit the trumpet in 6th grade, my feelings at the time were that it was a drag to take to school and I wanted the hour of free time that the non-instrumentalists got. Know what? I never wanted to play trumpet! I wanted to play sax! But I got passed over, and I wasted years of my life till I had enough money and sense to get an alto. My parents were no help. Bitter? Yeah, a little bit.

Go your own way, let your passions be the guide. If you're a good player and a good person, other people will want to play with you. That's just not happy nonsense talk; it's a law of the universe. 8-)

[barisaxiguy]

hey, in 8th grade and now(9th) i carry my bari to school and home everyday w/ my coffin case, its not that hard...

[BariSaxy]

alto??:!: man, if there's one thing that hurts me the most, its when i hear stories about people who are made to switch from bari to alto. i mean, alto isn't that bad, but in the 5 schools i've been to, there have been WAY to many alto's and tenors, and next to none bari's

[beoheed]

took me three days to switch from clarinet Bb, not bass, to bari, this year I've been playing for six months don't squeek and I bring my Martin I carry home every day on the bus no problem! right on barisaxiguy, by the way my school has two working bari's and one not so much.