Fingering Suggestions for Ref54

[woodwindmaster06]

Do you have any suggestions for fingering a G3, on a Selmer Reference 54 with a T75 Vandoren V16 Metal Mouthpiece, with 2.5 ZZ Vandoren Reeds. I have tried a lot of fingerings none of them work?

[Steve J.]

Try l.h. - octave key, b r.h - side Bb, high F#.

[woodwindmaster06]

Didn't work

[Gandar]

I like

left hand: front high F + octave key
right hand: F + side Bb-key

But I dont know how does it work in your sax.

[woodwindmaster06]

Still didn't work

[woodwindmaster06]

Still didn't work- What setup do you use?

[Steve J.]

woodwindmaster06 -
If I'm understanding correct you cannot produce a G3 with any fingerings. This is quite unusual unless you are not very experienced in playing altissimo. If this is the case witch fingering should not be your primary focus.

Can you produce G3 with a different mouthpiece? Can you produce it on a different Tenor? Different fingerings may not work for you because of the way you are attempting to play the horn. - throat position, airstream, embouchure etc. A particular fingering doesn't guarantee a G3. This note can be tricky until you figure it out. It is a difficult altissimo note until it isn't. After woodshedding it becomes like riding a bike - its harder to forget it.

Producing the harmonic series as high as possible while fingering low Bb, B, C is a good start to producing G3 at will. If F# 3 is comfortable, play it and try slurring to a G3. Fingering is a secondary consideration after being able to produce the note with several possible fingerings. At that point you pick the fingering based on sound, intonation and reliability. This choice changes with the music.

The fingering I gave above produces G3 with my Ref 54 with more ease than G3 on other Tenors. It easily pops out with numerous mouthpieces for me. The timbre is different but reliability and ease of producing is the best. I think you should have and practice different fingerings for all notes and become familiar with their characteristics both sonically and idiomatically in note patterns. but this fingering is extremely easy in popping out in pitch on my ref 54.

If these suggestions are redundant or definitely don't apply, I would see a sax repair person or an experienced sax teacher in person to determine the cause.

[woodwindmaster06]

I finally today after reading more and more about alltissimo notes have reached G3 for the first time ever using Gandars fingering of RH.Front F, Octave Key, LH. F, Bb Side Key, i got there just goining up really slowly and finally I made it up to G3.

[Gandar]

Well, that how I got notes too. I'm too quite new in altissimo and that seemed excellent fingering. It was from "Mel Bay's Modern Etudes for Saxophone by Santy Runyon"-book, wich I borrowed from library because of Santy. Though there was only F# - A . http://www.wfg.woodwind.org/ is good also. Good luck.

[Steve J.]

I have a concern woodwindmaster & I'm posting because I'm playing the same type tenor and think I am more intimate with your struggle. Gandar's fingering will get you a G3 but on my ref 54 this is quite flat in pitch. Pinching up pretty drastically has to occur to actually get it to G3.
I would even venture to say this would happen on other tenors. I think Gandar's fingering is excellent for alto sax. Not for Tenor - out of tune drastically without pinching.

I suggest not using right hand and play G3 with OK & Front F only. Better yet use my original suggested fingering. One advantage of my suggested fingering is it is in pitch only with very relaxed open throat and embouchure. - like the rest of the normal range.

[woodwindmaster06]

Thanks, any suggestions for G#3 or A3?

[woodwindmaster06]

Steve J. I have retried your fingering and it does work better than Gandars, with Gandars the only way I could achieve it is if I went step by step up the scale with your fingering I do not need to do that at all.

[Bootman]

G# 3 is OK,123 and side C.
A3 is OK -23|45(6)

This worked for me on the Ref 54 that I owned.

[woodwindmaster06]

None of those fingerings worked (So far)

[Steve J.]

Bootman's suggestions are right on. They respond well on my ref 54.

I actually use a slight variation on G#3. OK,13 and side C is in better pitch for me. Bootman's suggestion tends to be a little flat for me (I hate pinching) but his suggestion may be more reliable for you until you get more comfortable. Its quite solid.
A3 - OK -23|45(6) works great. You can add low C key & it may solidify things for you.

[woodwindmaster06]

Why are there parenthesis around "6"

[woodwindmaster06]

Do you have to do anything special with your emboture (sp?) tonque, or air flow when you go from G3-G#3, or A3?

[Bootman]

The G#3 fingering works for me across all horns, Sop through Bass. The tuning of th enote is done in the throat and with air speed. The Parenthesis mean that this note is optional according to player/horn variables.

If you're having problems with these notes and other alt range notes then I would suggest greater air speed and air support to overcome this. It requires a relaxed embouchure, not pinched, correct position of the throat and lots of air support. It is the same when playing in the upper range of clarinet and maintaining a big woody sound or a full bodied tone in the upper range of the flute. It is the same for brass too actually. It is simply air support and speed that will make the difference.

[woodwindmaster06]

Still having problems using your advise

[Bootman]

Check your air support. I am certain that this is where the problem lies. To get alt notes you have to relax, not tense up.

[woodwindmaster06]

Is it unusual to be able to Play G3 really well and not being able to play any other altissimo note?