Woodshed Origin

[Sigmund451]

Does anyone knows the history or etymology behind the use of this term in music/saxophone culture?

[sopsax]

I always assumed it came from practicing in the woodshed, far from the house so nobody'd have to listen to you.

[BlueNote]

From what I've heard it came from Charlie Parker, but I may be wrong.

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When Bird was young and playing, he went to a jam session, lead by musicians WAY better than him. The sax player (forgot name) took a few choruses, then Bird took one. The band started getting dissatisifed with his playing, so the trumpet player motioned the drummer to do something. So the drummer unscrewed one of the cymbals and hucked it at Bird, missing him. Bird took notice, then left.

Bird then went home from then on and went inside his shed at his house in the back and practiced his butt off for years and years, until he became the icon of 20th century jazz music. He then ran into the same band members who kicked him off the stage, and jammed again. The sax player (same one who pissed him off years ago), after the jam session, hucked his horn into the river because Bird had outdone him like no one else could, and felt that there was no point in playing

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A friend of mine told me that story. Dunno if it's true though.

[paulwl]

As I'm the one who's always b!tching about how music is historically taught thru cruelty, I'll add this:

"Taking someone else to the woodshed" sometimes means teaching them a lesson. Usually by snatching them bald-headed or opening a can of whup@ss. Kinda what Jo Jones had in mind when chucking that cymbal. (Jo was the kind of personality who would park his trap cases in front of the fire door and then complain to management about it.) So perhaps woodshedding is meant to suggest self-punishment: opening your own can of whup@ss when you practice.

The term dates back at least to 1942, when Woody Herman put out a record called "Woodsheddin' with Woody."

[larry]

I've also heard the term "taken out to the woodshed" used as a reference for punishment - presumably that's where yer paw would take his belt to you. Or something.

Not sure if there is a relationship although I think many of my practice sessions are punishment for anyone unlucky enough to hear them...

[pknight]

SORRY. I started this message before the two previous ones were posted, then got sidetracked, and posted after them.

Interesting Charlie Parker story. Not sure if it is true, but it could be.

The more common use of the term "woodshed" has to do with punishment, either from a parent or other authority figure, or in the context of sports when a team has been beaten very badly. Being "taken to the woodshed" is not typically a postive experience, although one may learn something from it. I don't see a clear link between this use and practicing an instrument, but who knows?

[sw3119]

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Bird then went home from then on and went inside his shed at his house in the back and practiced his butt off for years and years, until he became the icon of 20th century jazz music. He then ran into the same band members who kicked him off the stage, and jammed again. The sax player (same one who -censored- him off years ago), after the jam session, hucked his horn into the river because Bird had outdone him like no one else could, and felt that there was no point in playing

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A friend of mine told me that story. Dunno if it's true though.

The last half of that story is only half right. :)

It sounds like your friend got that from the movie 'Bird' (Great Movie!)

The story that I read in a CP Biography was that he indeed went to a jam session to sit in. I believe the band was actually members of the Basie band. From what I've heard, these guys would play several sets as the Basie band and then let people come up and jam with them later in the night. (This would go on until the sun was coming up sometimes.) Supposedly it was Count Basie who signaled to Jo Jones to give him the axe. At which point Jo through one of his cymbals on the stage.

After that embarrassment Parker got a job playing at some resort. The story is that he took a bunch of Basie band records with him and learned to play some Lester Young solos note for note. When he got back he went to sit in with the same group and called a very popular Basie tune that had a very popular Lester Young solo on it and tore the roof off of the place, playing Lester's solo note for note. (At that time Lester Young was about as big a star as you could be)


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As for the term Woodshedding, It generally means to practice a great deal and get much better. It implies some one who leaves the 'scene' (ie not playing in any bands or showing up to jam sessions) for a period of time and then comes back much better that they were before.

As far as being taken to the woodshed. I think that refers to someone who thinks they are really good being shown up by a better player.

[jazzbluescat]

I always thought woodshedding came from a downhome/Southern US expression meaning to do a chore/routine maintenance such as chopping wood. In "olden" days the household depended on having enough wood chopped to cook with and to provide heat. Hence, not a big leap to mean practicing (your ax) or gigging (playing jobs), very necessary "chores."

Where're ya going, man?
Gotta go chop wood. (gig)
or
Gotta woodshed. (practice)

[Mel]

I always thought that the term came something like this...

Back in the days when woodsheds were popular, practicing/playing instruments in the house was not. In fact, at that point, only pianos (okay, so maybe there were some exceptions) were "proper" enough to be played in the house. People who played woodwinds or brass, etc. had to practice elsewhere. Well, the outhouse isn't all that pleasant to spend all those hours in, and not every house has a nice barn. So the woodshed came to be an option, and hence the term woodshed.

[Spaz Johnson]

Paging Jan Harold Brunvand!

Mr. Brunvand to the rumor control front desk!

Paging Jan Harold Brunvand!

Rampant, undocumented speculation seen skulking about SOTW!

This is not a drill!

[gary]

Could you tell me what that means and why Spaz? Thanks. Gary.

[Spaz Johnson]

Glad you asked!

Brunvand is the leading American authority on "Urban Legends",--- tales told to us as true stories even though there is never a trace of first hand knowledge or evidence to support the claims.

He has written several books on the subject, notably:
The Vanishing Hitch Hiker
The Choking Doberman
The Baby Train
Curses, Broiled Again

..,and his "greatest hits" book:
Too Good to be True

All great reading and all pointing out the various flaws in what is going down in this thread (among MANY)! He calls it the FOAF syndrome. It's always true because they heard it from a Friend OF A Friend!

My posts are being excised as we speak, so this may be the end of Spaz the Impaler!

It's been a hoot!
Check out the website!

[gary]

Thanks for the info, Spaz. Brunvand's not exactly a householld name in this neck of the woods. Now that I understand the reference...I agree, in general.

By the way, I have checked out the web site. Unfortunately, my internet connection is not exactly cutting edge so downloading music like on your site is a lengthy undertaking, so I usually have to pass.

[Dentarthurdent]

Spaz, if your posts are being 'excised' it should be quite surreal to read threads where Vortex is apparently arguing with himself.

[Stacey]

I always assumed it came from practicing in the woodshed, far from the house so nobody'd have to listen to you.

Indeed, you should ask my poor sister where she was sent to practice when she started learning to play clarinet back in 1970, at age 13. Yes, out at the far end of the back yard, in "the shed". It wasn't a woodshed, but more of a tool shed and lawn mower shed, but the damage was done.

When I came along and started learning sax in 1979, for some reason I wasn't ever sent out back to practice in the shed. Maybe that's related to the idea that a beginning sax player reaches the point of sounding "listenable" much faster than a beginning clarinet (or violin) player typically does.

"Christine, you take that damned thing out to the SHED!"

She became a very good clarinetist, in the end.

[Vortex]

...you rang?

Oh boy, I was reading through this and suddenly I'm getting slammed in territories I haven't even set a foot in yet. Get a damned life, dent.

Cool thread, there's bound to some truth to it but who knows how much. I gotta agree with mel as pretty well summing it up. That "bend over, junior" type of woodshedding would apply primarily to sports in my neck of woods, particularly school-aged. Still kinda common, in fact.

[Pete]

Vortex, remind me not to come to "your neck of the woods" :).

[gary]

Oh boy, I was reading through this and suddenly I'm getting slammed in territories I haven't even set a foot in yet. Get a damned life, dent.
In case you're not joking, Vortex, I interpreted Dentarthurdent's post as humorous not critical, referring to dialogues between you and Spaz. If Spaz' posts are deleted then you would seem to be talking to yourself.

[Vortex]

Well, they were a bit reiteratory, I'll give 'em that.

[Dentarthurdent]

Gary is right (when isn't he?) - my tongue was firmly in cheek. No offence was intended.
For what it's worth Vortex, I really enjoy your posts and have picked up a lot of useful tips from you. You need to take a chill pill though dude.... 8)

[Sigmund451]

Some nice stories. This thread turned out more interesting than I thought. While its still unclear as to the absolute origin (which may remain a mystery) there appear to be some very plausable answers. Thanks.

[1saxman]

There's no doubt where the term came from. It's much older than 'Bird', and is simply a slang term among jazz musicians for practicing, in a very deliberate and concentrated way, as in holing up in the woodshed day after day. Why the woodshed? In the pre-air conditioned south, with open doors and windows, it was usually the only place around the house to play loud without getting yelled at. When I practice or try out reeds or horns, I go out into the garage. I play really loud, and nobody in the house can do anything when I play inside. Plus, it really bothers the cat.

[Sigmund451]

I tried the garage but my doors are straight grained cedar inset panels. Basically, they reverberate and carry sound much like the top of an acoustic guitar so I have to be aware of the neighbors when I go to the garage.

[Jerrystrick]

Had anyone ever heard that to shed "simply" meant to improve ones chops, to "shed" bad habits, and replace them with better ones?

My shed is off my upstairs bedroom in my apartment in Redondo Beach Ca. I have a corner unit with "bonus" sunroom with sliding patio doors around 6'X12' ish. There are windows on two wall which run the length of the room. I have the computer, a small stereo w/cd, my amp. and mike, and the corner with music books, music stand, sax stand and alto and tenor handy next to the chair for easy access.