Does doubling help your tone?

[SMSHsax]

I wasn't sure whether I should post this on Tone Producing or here, but I figured since it dealt with playing a 2nd instrument I would post it here.

Anyway, does playing a secondary instrument have any positive side-effects on your tone for your primary instrument?
For example, I heard that a trumpet player who plays french horn has a much more "refined" sound than one who doesn't play the french horn. Is this true? Would the same apply for some woodwind instruments?

[Gordon (NZ)]

If the tone of any instrument can be wrecked by playing another, I'd say it was flute, because what the player does with his lips is almost everything, as far as tone goes.

There is nothing wrong with James Galway's tone on flute. He wrote this in 2002,

"I play the French horn and saxophone (real bad on both) and it has not affected my embouchure at all. In fact, playing the French horn actually improved it. I became more aware of the changes which are necessary on the flute.
My brother plays the flute, Clarinet and Sax and I think he is great on the flute.

As an experienced doubler, I agree. INITIALLY, tone can be messed up, but with more practice, especially with frequent instrument changes, playing other instruments contributes more - the word 'refined' is good - and interferes negligibly.

[HC]

Playing on numerous saxophones and clarinets... I think it makes the embouschur more "flexible". Learning a new kind of clarinet or new kind of saxophone gets easier and easier.

[Benny]

Dan Higgens told me that playing other horns will only help your main axe. At the time I was very skeptical, but now having discovered it for myself, nothing could be closer to the truth.
Doubling on other horns will teach you skills and ways to approach things that you otherwise wouldn't have done had you only played one instrument. My flute teacher gave me some great articulation exercises which I have begun practising on my other horns which have gone a long way to solving some problems, especially on the clarinet and oboe. In terms of style, I find flute articulation very different to other woodwinds but there is so much that I have been able to apply to other music on other instruments.
This year, having decided to really put more time into the clarinet for a while, I thought my saxophone playing would really become rough. Whilst its not where it would normally be, when I play my saxes I am more aware of what makes a saxophone a saxophone and how its dfferent to the clar, flute and oboe - like the Galway comment Gordon brought up.

[sessionsax]

I think that doubling doesn't adversly affect you other instruments tones as long as you spend adequate time keeping you chops up on each instrument. A problem can come in if you --- say for instance -- get so much into doubling on flute -- that you neglect spending chops time on your soprano.

[yana sax]

Very good points from everyone so far. I totally agree with Gordon (NZ);
very good info!

[tombonist95]

I just have something to throw in here. I dont play the sax, my brother does. but i figured id throw in something about doubling. Though you guys say that doubling can only help you, arent there possible combinations that would hurt our embouchure? such as trombone and trumpet? There has to be something

EDIT: and my other question: will it hurt your emouchure if you double on trumpet while playing alto sax?

[bpimentel]

I don't play any brass instruments, but I play all the woodwinds.

You don't see many brass players doubling, other than maybe trumpet-flugelhorn or trombone-euphonium. There are exceptions of course. But I get the feeling the brass embouchure, or, more specifically, the "reed" formed by the lips, is very delicate and easily messed up by playing other instruments. This seems to me like it might be partly a physiological phenomenon and partly a mental one.

That's the same reason that flute is so often the bane of woodwind doublers--the lips really have to be in shape if you don't have a cane reed to depend on.

I think doubling between the woodwinds benefits your playing in some ways, and hurts it in others. The best strategy, I think, is to get good solid instruction on each instrument, and approach each one like you've never played anything else. It's when you try to play a clarinet or oboe like a saxophone that things turn ugly.

Bret

[saxmasta89]

would doubling on trumpet while playin trombone help build a trombone embouchure for higher notes? it seems like that would make sense to me

[SaxPlayer1004]

for saxmasta89, my best friend is a trombonist, primarily a bass player, but plays lead tenor in jazz band, which means hes playing where a trumpet and french horn usually do, about the range of a tenor sax. anywho he tried picking up french horn to see if that would help him, but what makes the difference in pitch on a brass instrument is the size of the mouthpiece. if you put a french horn mouthpiece into a tuba mouthpiece *put the tuba mouthpiece on the tuba, then put the horn mouthpiece into the tuba mouthpiece *its wierd, but it works** then the tuba will play the range of a french horn. the depth of a cup on a brass instrument along witht he diameter has the most affect on range and tone of the horn. a conical mouthpiece sounds different from a cup mouthpiece *french horn is conical, trumpet mouthpiece is semi spherical*. the shallower the cup the easier it generally is to play high notes because of the added wind resistance against your lips. same concept as how most brass players can play higher with a mute in the bell, because the wind resistance pushing back on their lips aids them in going to the next partial.
on the woodwind route, james moody and james carter played with the newport jazz band and came to Mechanics Hall, in Worcester MA, last february and my friends dad was running the sound. after the show, we went backstage, and were talking about music, my friends a sax player also. and Mr. Moody asked if we had played clarinet before sax, because that was what was done when he was growing up, and is what he suggested to his students. the clarinet apparently helps with your embouchure immensely on saxophone and helps with your tone. I was a little skeptical at first, but I picked up my clarinet more and more and my tone has gotten so much better after it. Then i was asked to start double reeds. I'm doing reeds 2 & 3 for Beauty and the Beast, 2 is the oboe e. horn and bassoon book, 3 is the flute clarinet bass clarinet book. and it is really hard when you have an oboe solo then have to jump straight into a flute duet *reed 1 is flute and piccolo*, then straight to a bass clarinet bass line with the bone player.
this is just what i have heard and experienced, by no way is this uniform for everyone.

[tombonist95]

brass is like woodwind in the fact that practice in the right way increases range. a tenor trombone can play abig range. a tenor can be an alternate to an alto or bass trombone. it can get all the range, as long as you practice the right way. the mouthpiece helps, but is not a surefire way to ensure range.

[saxmasta89]

cool..i learn somethin new everyday :D

[SaxPlayer1004]

I was just saying that a shallower cup generally offers high range better than a deep cup. tenor can double bass parts? My friend mentioned above has about another 2 octaves added to his bass range, and he is hitting triple pedal g's. crazy guy he is though.

[saxmasta89]

lol..trombones are cool... awesome range too..one of my best friends has a range of like the 2nd a below the bass staff to f on top of treble

[SaxPlayer1004]

my friend is always nagging at me because i can only go so low on my horns, my response is "ahh, but can you get controlled squeaks" thats what the rest of the band referrs to altissimo on sax bassoon and clarinet. my old band director -graduated summa cum laude from the boston conservatory on trombone could play chords in progressions on bone. my friend cant do that yet, but i can very easily on bassoon and oboe. ahh the wonders of double reeds.