Tenor and Alto, difficult to play both saxes good?

[Markus]

I play the alto now for 5 years. A few weeks ago I played a tenor the first time and was impressed. Now I'm thinking about buying a tenor but I still want to play the alto.
Is it difficult to switch between different embochures (alto <-> tenor)?
Is it difficult to adapt between two different saxes, intonation tendencies or differences in playing low notes e.g.?
Is it possible to reach reasonable skills on both instruments?
I practice 1 hour per day. Is this enough for 2 saxes or is it better to concentrate on one?
Who shares his / her experiences?

Thank you.

Markus

[bariman]

A lot of us here on SOTW play more than one size of sax, myself alto, tenor, and bari. Some even on the same gig. It isn't much of a problem, because tenor and alto aren't that far apart. I don't think it's that hard to go back and forth between the two in a practice session, but I usually take around three hours of practice a day. Or you could alternate days with alto and tenor. Any way you do it, have fun doubling!

Bariman

[Helen]

I play soprano, alto, tenor, bari, and bass. In some bands I play tenor and bari. In another I play soprano, tenor, and bass.

The thing to remember is that each horn has its own, unique voice. Your job as a doubler will be to approach each horn differently, and to play each horn as if it was the only one you played. Eventually you will develop tonal concepts for all the different horns you play. This takes time, and definately takes practice on all of the horns.

Because I am mostly a large horn player, soprano and alto are the 2 that tend to get neglected the most, because I just don't have enough time to keep them all up equally.

[Tim Wolfe]

I own an alto, tenor, and soprano. For many years, I played mostly alto.

I agree with the other posters that you can play two or more horns and play them well, but for me I find it easier to focus on the Bb horns: soprano and tenor. In fact, I rarely play alto these days.

I have found that my tenor playing has improved dramatically by focusing 75% of my practice time on it. The other 25% goes to the soprano.

Going back and forth between an Eb instrument (alto) and a Bb instrument (tenor/soprano) was really problematic for me. I'm getting to the point now that when I hear a pitch (say, e.g., concert G) I can go right to it on my tenor or soprano, almost automatically. My ear and my fingers are starting to really work together (after MANY years of hard work, I should add). Adding the alto to the mix seems to screw this up for me.

It may very well be that I am weird or handicapped. Perhaps other sax players are not so easily confused when they double on Bb and Eb instruments. I don't know.

Anyway, you can be successful as a doubler (or tripler!) if you practice both hard and smart.

Hope my rambling comments are somehow useful.
Tim Wolfe

[Talldog]

I feel the same way, perhaps because of starting on the clarinet. (didn't play sax until I was 17) But my relative pitch-natural ear is better on the Bb horns as well. I've played both for years, but my improv is definitely better on the Bb's. My ideas seem to be more idiomatic on the tenor. On alto, I guess I tend to sound like a tenor player, which is OK by me.

[Talldog]

I feel the same way, perhaps because of starting on the clarinet. (didn't play sax until I was 17) But my relative pitch-natural ear is better on the Bb horns as well. I've played both for years, but my improv is definitely better on the Bb's. My ideas seem to be more idiomatic on the tenor. On alto, I guess I tend to sound like a tenor player, which is OK by me.

[Talldog]

I feel the same way, perhaps because of starting on the clarinet. (didn't play sax until I was 17) But my relative pitch-natural ear is better on the Bb horns as well. I've played both for years, but my improv is definitely better on the Bb's. My ideas seem to be more idiomatic on the tenor. On alto, I guess I tend to sound like a tenor player, which is OK by me.

[jvsax]

When I've picked up a new double over the years I've tended to concentrate on it for while until I have it relatively under control, and then I go back to practicing my main axe while the doubles "come along for the ride" so to speak. Every so often I'll focus on a double if I have some special call for it on a gig. I think playing more then one horn is actually a good way to improve on the main horn, too. (opens up the ears, etc.) That said, my ears are still adjusting to the whole Eb thing on alto, but its getting better over time.

[yana sax]

I think it starts to get tricky if you play tenor and have to swap for soprano back and forth. Totally different embousures.

[robbieg]

I've done some stuff where I've played multiple saxes and clarinets during the course of a concert or gig. I think one of the main deals to try and do, to reduce the "shock" of changing horns, is to try and get relatively similar mouthpeices.

Example: Don't play on a really closed Alto mouthpeice and go to a really open Tenor mouthpeice.

[shmuelyosef]

I think it starts to get tricky if you play tenor and have to swap for soprano back and forth. Totally different embousures.
On the other hand, this is a very popular double...

[yana sax]

On the other hand, this is a very popular double...

Very true. I think the reason is that tenor and soprano are very much jazz instruments, not that they can't play classical! As you know, there are many jazz saxophonists out there! Playing the two instruments back and forth isn't too hard; I meant if you're a total beginner, it could be tricky!

[saxchado]

The thing to remember is that each horn has its own, unique voice. Your job as a doubler will be to approach each horn differently, and to play each horn as if it was the only one you played. Eventually you will develop tonal concepts for all the different horns you play. This takes time, and definately takes practice on all of the horns.

Very Well Said, Helen! Too many people think that if you can play one, you can play them all. It's true, you know the fingerings, but all too often it's really obvious when a tenor player is playing alto, or vice-versa. The real trick is to have whoever is listening believe that whatever horn you are playing is your main horn. Alto/Tenor is probably the hardest double not because they are different, but because they are very much alike, except for the little nuances that make alto alto and tenor tenor. Like Tim said, Soprano/Tenor is probably the easiest, because they are different enough that it is easier to keep them straight, and the Bb factor helps a lot too.

It's definately possible to do the A/T double, just plan on taking lots of practice time, and being very patient. If you are only going to practice an hour a day, then I'm going to agree with bariman and say that it's probably best to pick one horn a day and rotate.

YANA, for what it's worth, I actually prefer classical Tenor and Soprano to classical alto! If you haven't really ever listened or explored the Bb side of classical, you're really missing something wonderful!

[sax_appeal]

I play classical alto and bari and jazz tenor and I find that tenor is the hardest of the three to play, and not just because I'm playing jazz (which I don't do that often)!

For me, alto is the easiest (though its by no means easy), bari is a fraction harder and tenor is much harder- I just don't have the same control, especially between registers as I do on the Eb horns.

[gary]

'Tag Markus. Aside from the hearing differences (you play at an A on the alto and hear a concert C, you play an A on the tenor and hear a concert G), when you are learning to play tenor make sure you loosen up your embouchure a bit and you might also need to drop your neck strap down a bit. The alto embouchure is a bit tighter. One way to know if you're using too tight an embouchure when you switch to tenor is if you are squeaking or if notes are hanging in the upper register when you want to go lower.

[yana sax]

If you haven't really ever listened or explored the Bb side of classical, you're really missing something wonderful!


I think some people may have misenterpreted my post. I actually said that alot of people play tenor and sop for jazz, but both instruments are equally good for classical. As for me "missing something wonderful", I'm not!!! I recently played a "Fugue and Prologue" on soprano in a sax group at a live concert. It kicked ***!

[saxchado]

No hard feelings implied, Yana. (especially nothing personal) I was simply commenting in contrast to the general assumption that Alto is the only horn worth playing classically.

[Markus]

Thank you for your answers.

Markus

[sax_appeal]

Alto is the only horn worth playing classically? I actually disagree. I play baritone sax classically and thats definately worthwhile.

[yana sax]

Alto is the only horn worth playing classically? I actually disagree. I play baritone sax classically and thats definately worthwhile.

Saxchado was actually defending the fact that other saxes can play classical music!

[yana sax]

No hard feelings implied, Yana. (especially nothing personal) I was simply commenting in contrast to the general assumption that Alto is the only horn worth playing classically.

No hard feelings on my part either! I think that soprano is great for classical. I have never properly played a tenor sax, only tried a mates, so I wouldn't really know what it feels like to even play it! But it sounds good playing classical!

[Markus]

Check out this: http://www.vierfarbensaxophon.de/musik.html
Classical music (for non saxophones) played by a sax quartett.
I like it. It is something different.

Markus[/url]

[sax_appeal]

Geez, talk about observant. I must have missed the first line completely or something! Sorry about that.

[yana sax]

Don't worry 'bout it!

[saxchado]

I actually tried to avoid playing classical saxophone...thought it was a bit of an oxymoron....well, as a saxophone performance major, you can only avoid it for so long. Needless to say, after not long at all, I really fell in love with the genre. I haven't done a lot of classical alto, as everyone already does, and I still get my kicks out of being a little different, so I'd play mostly unaccompanied pieces and transcriptions. There's something very rich and beautiful about classical tenor, and soprano can really sing. I really enjoyed the Stein sonata and a transcription of the Mozart Basson concerto. I play the bassoon as well, but feel that if mozart had known a good tenor player, well.... you get what I mean.

I've also heard (though not really played) some classical bari that gave me chills! (that was for you, sax appeal!)

Peace, Love and Great Sax!!

[uksaxman]

I agree with the guys saying you have to treat them as separate intruments, ie evaluate embrochure airstream, and phrasing from scratch. Also have fav players/styles to guide you. I started on tenor a couple of years ago (22yrs on alto) and gigged within a few weeks, but its taken the couple of years to get the airstream/altissimo/instinctive note accessing some of you speak off. I wondered if I should abandon it after about 6 months, but totally glad I stuck with it. Slightly frustrating now, as most people comment on preferring my Tenor playing! when I still have a slight preference for the Alto personally. It has given me acces to all tenor material, which is a huge boost to study material/approach. I think developing the ability to "pre-hear" the notes is the most crucial skill to develop.
Brian

[saxchado]

Slightly frustrating now, as most people comment on preferring my Tenor playing! when I still have a slight preference for the Alto personally.

I feel you, only the other way around. After years of Tenor playing, I switched to alto (our lead player turned into our bass player) and after only a few months, had people tell me I was born to play alto. I much prefer to play (or listen to) tenor.

[MB-913]

Sonny Stitt is a good example who is Master level in tenor + alto.

[saxchado]

I've really turned on to Stitt's playing lately. My favorite album this week has been "Sonny Side Up." It's great stuff!

[regowens]

Have some real fun. Play the alto and tenor at the same time in harmony.

[jacobeid]

I've been playing just as long as you, but I practice at least 2 hours outside of school and 3 during school. Currently I only play alto and soprano and it isn't hard to switch between embouchures. Last week on a concert I had to switch alto->soprano->alto->soprano->alto consecutively for songs. All I did was play a really soft scale and I was good too go. I'm also interested in getting a tenor.

[Razzy]

Been playing both for about five years and, in addition to what's already been said, these points may help you:

- Your alto setup should probably be along different lines than your tenor setup. This will help you to treat the instruments differently, and I also feel like each horn favors a certain kind of mouthpiece, tip opening, and reed. For example, I use a Meyer 6M on alto and an Otto Link 8 on tenor. These feel very different but allow me to get a good concept on both horns; I used to play a Meyer 6M on tenor also, and will occasionally use it for classical playing or an odd on-the-go job, but it just doesn't add up for me now that the Link is in the picture. These mouthpieces allow me to achieve a sound appropriate to the instrument in most settings.

- It's very difficult to develop an "ear" for both instruments. This is the reason many very successful jazz players stick to tenor and soprano: they're both in Bb and they have trained their ears and fingers to respond in that key. Doing both Eb and Bb horns requires a bit more work and ear training to become comfortable. I still find alto and baritone more comfortable in terms of hearing what I'm improvising, transposing, and responding to changes and sounds in a jazz setting because I've had more practice doing all of those things in the key of Eb... not necessarily because I'm a "better" alto player than I am a tenor player, for example.

- In the end, you're going to have to play each instrument a lot to achieve a "proper" sound on it. In the beginning, "wow these finger the same!" is going to make you feel great and like you're an automatic virtuoso on the new horn... but eventually you'll realize that getting your ear locked into the different key of the instrument and getting your embouchure and air into the right spot for your setup on the new horn are monumental tasks which require a bit of work and certainly a return to the basics of playing.

- As much as I admire A/T guys like Sonny Stitt and Dick Oatts, I'd much rather listen to both of them playing alto. On tenor they both have an alto-ish sound. Now Chris Potter on the other hand... probably the only player I can think of who achieves an incredible sound on both horns which is not at all reminiscent of the other horn, dig?

Classical playing is a whole new ballgame so I'm not going to get into it... but for your jazz chops, 'thar she is!' Bottom line: practice both a lot, and try hard to sound good, and you can't help but get good at both.

[Jolle]

Very true. I think the reason is that tenor and soprano are very much jazz instruments, not that they can't play classical! As you know, there are many jazz saxophonists out there! Playing the two instruments back and forth isn't too hard; I meant if you're a total beginner, it could be tricky!
They're both Bb, so you don't have to adjust to another voice-or-what's-it-called-in-english? That's why I switch easily I think. Embouchure is a matter of practice on all instruments. Even on the same instrument with different mouth pieces.