any bassoon doublers?

[SMSHsax]

I have this wonderful opportunity to learn how to play the bassoon to participate in the Orchestra at my school. I took one home and I'm astounded at how fat and full everything from low D down to low Bb is. I love that bass sound. (It even sounds more appealing than a bari sax too! :lol: ) I do see myself needing to practice long tones for a really long time on the upper octaves. Those are harder to maintain a steady sound on. So I was wondering, is there anyone here that plays bassoon as well? It's a rather interesting doubling instrument coming from sax I suppose :D

[bpimentel]

Hi SMSHsax,

I double on bassoon. Lots of work, but lots of fun.

Doubling gigs in musicals, etc., when they call for a bassoonist, most often require doubling on baritone saxophone and/or bass clarinet. And although orchestral parts that double saxophone usually go to the clarinet section, John Cage's Concert for Piano and Orchestra is a notable example of bassoon/bari doubling.

The advice I always give to woodwind players taking up bassoon: bassoon fingerings seem at first to be much more forgiving than other instruments--meaning you can seemingly superfluous keys and something resembling the right note may still come out. But a beautiful, polished bassoon sound demands fingering accuracy. Hold yourself to a high standard as far as LH thumb "vent" keys, half-holing, the low E-flat key on cross-fingered notes, etc.

Have fun!
Bret

[SMSHsax]

Hey Bret, thanks for the tip! I'm trying to make sure to learn all the fingerings the right way to avoid having any problems. I can certainly hear a difference between the correct fingerings and the ones that produce a similar note. =)

Anyway, I wanted to know if you could help me out a bit. I have one reed but I don't expect it will last a long time. I want to buy a few new reeds but I have not the slightest clue on whats out there. What kind of reed would you recommend for a beginner? (note that I also know how to take care of a reed so I don't necessarily need something unbreakable)

Thanks in advance!
Will

[bpimentel]

I feel like a bearer of bad news with the bassoon-related posts appearing the last few days. The bottom line is, bassoon is just expensive and difficult. But I'm not saying it isn't worth it.

Okay:
You're right to expect your reed won't last a long time. Longer than an oboe reed, though. Maximize its life by soaking it in water, not in your mouth. Every so often clean the gunk out of the inside with a pipe cleaner (be careful of the tip). When you're not playing it, store it in a non-airtight reed case so that it can thoroughly air-dry. After it finally gives up, hang on to it and try it again a few weeks later. After they get too soft to be playable, they sometimes seem to stiffen back up a little if you let them rest.

The best way to buy reeds is to get them from a local bassoonist. If you're near a college, get in touch with the bassoon professor and ask if they will sell you reeds or recommend another good reedmaker. A graduate student or even an advanced undergrad ought to be able to make good reeds, and will probably even sell them "cheap" (best price I ever got was $8 per reed). One advantage of buying handmade reeds near home is that they will be made to suit the altitude, climate, etc. where you live (yes, the best bassoonists really take that into account in their reedmaking).

Failing that, you can get mass-produced reeds. Local music shops seem to stock Jones reeds if they have any at all. They are an old standby for beginning bassoonists, but still cost about $8 apiece and are a significant step down from handmade reeds. Do your best to pick one out that is symmetrical from side to side AND front to back, and is at least very close to a perfect circle at the bocal end.

Maybe worth noting: I ordered a Stevens plastic bassoon reed from WW&BW a while back and was surprised by how good it was. No comparison to cane reeds, mind you, but still it has saved my you-know-what a few times in pit work. I don't know how consistent they are from reed to reed. Might be worth trying one as a backup to your backup cane reeds.

Once again, good luck.
Bret

[allthewoodwinds]

I used to double on bassoon and oboe, while playing in a local concert band, 10 years after I had graduated from high school. I also played clarinet, flute and alto sax (primary). People in that band used to kid me that I was some sort of show-off (had multiple stands for my instruments at concerts), but I've always felt that if you've been blessed with musical talents, you should utilize all your resources, because life is just too short. And I really don't give a damn if people think I'm showing off. I love playing music.

After I learned sax from my Uncle, then played alto, tenor and bari saxes in concert band, jazz band and orchestra, I decided to teach myself clarinet, flute, oboe and bassoon. Our band instructor never had a problem with kids in the band taking home instruments other than their own, to practice and see if they could play an additional instrument to fill-in for absentees. I even taught myself drums so that I could be part of the drum line in our marching band. Because of the easy access to any instrument we (the band) wished to take home, there was a load of woodwind players capable of playing sax, clarinet, flute, bassoon and oboe. I never had a problem switching to double reeds, since an oboe player (who also taught himself to play sax, flute and bassoon) in our band was more than happy to help me along. Boy, just thinking about all those people being able to double on multiple woodwinds makes me proud to have been in that band. I might also add that numerous brass players were also doublers on trumpet, trombone, baritone, french horn, altonium and bass. I digress.

Love playing as many woodwinds as I can. And I might add, that I can easily play jazz solos on all of them. Especially bass clarinet al a Eric Dolphy.

I've always approached learning a new instrument as just all-out fun, and not some drudgery of constantly practicing to become PERFECT (what's that?),
and I believe that is why I've never become frustrated with myself while learning. Right now, I'm learning from DVD's, online and a friend how to play Rock and Blues guitar (already playing some pretty mean solos in the B.B. Box). Since my fingers have been very fast since I've played the tenor sax (read: Don Menza) I'm having no problems picking fast on the guitar. Music is so much freaking fun! I'm turning 54 in May, and haven't slowed down one bit.

[woodwindNYC]

The bassoon was the 2nd wind instrument I picked up (clarinet being the first)...I've been playing since I was 12 (I was fortunate enough to have attended a junior high school that not only *had* a bassoon, they had four of them, and they were all very nice Foxes). It's a tremendously fun instrument to play, but it does require quite a lot of work, as the fingering system isn't exactly the most intuitive.

A good teacher is essential (I was fortunate enough to have been an occasional private student of Judith LeClair while I was an undergrad at Juilliard, and in high school with Daryl Durran at Penn State ), and it is absolutely imperative that your instrument be in the best condition possible, even if it's not the best *instrument* possible.

But, if you're up to the challenge, it is a very rewarding instrument. There's nothing quite like sailing through a Vivaldi bassoon concerto to make you feel like you've gotten something accomplished! ;-)

[jaysne]

I've played sax for over 30 years and just picked up bassoon a couple of months ago. It is tremendously fun.

Yeah, it's a lot of work but so what? Nothing worthwhile is ever easy.

Let's see what I'm saying when I start to work in tenor clef.

[SOTSDO]

I've given up on being able to read tenor clef at sight, and now just write the names of the notes below the offending bars and go to it from there.

Why the world of bassooning seems so obsessed with the reduction of ledger lines is well beyond my ken. Flautists seem to manage quite nicely with huge stacks of the things, and if they become too burdensome, you can always go the "8va" route instead. But noooo - let's shift over to tenor clef for three bars, just to avoid those pesky ledger lines...

One new wrinkle that I discovered over my intense bassoon experiences over the past month is that (on a rack of horns) the bassoon should be on the right hand side. This is so you don't catch the "seal"/crutch with a saxophone when changing horns, and so that the bocal (and occasionally the reed if left on same) are kept pointed off to the right to avoid any accidental contact.

I just finished (during the morning coffee break) cutting a new mortice into my horn rack base that will allow me to turn it all around and line things up with bassoon to the right. It's always something...

One thing I still have not mastered is the switch from baritone to bassoon in two bars of 4/4 time. I'm sure that it can be done, but not by this old man.

Even with a roller stand for the baritone (which I refuse to use, as they damage the horn finish and can ruin alignment on some instruments), there's just not enough time to get the baritone out of the way, to get the bassoon out of the rack and all hooked up, to place the reed on the bocal, and to start making musical sounds.

In one tune of Crazy For You, there's a quick change during the "Shall We Dance?" number, where you shift from baritone to bassoon for about eight bars to cover a soft shoe bass line with the bassoon, then shift right back to baritone for a critical part when the tempo goes swing again. No way on earth that I can manage that, so I'll probably just cover the limited number of notes (maybe sixteen or so in all) on the bass clarinet instead. At least you can play that with a baritone on your lap.

[Chris Peryagh]

Have you tried one of these?

http://howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./pictures/Accs/BsnDutchKneeRest.JPG&pid=34308

I've seen the Royal Marines bassoonists using them and they give much more freedom to the player than a floor spike, seat strap or sling - and none of the hassle of having to hitch/unhitch yourself in a hurry when doubling.

[SOTSDO]

I've seen them (through the Internet), but haven't decided if my limited amount of faggott playing to justify the investment. As I've also decided that I need a more capacious case (I don't want to be one of those guys who totes a fishing tackle box to hold the "extras" of bassoon playing), I'll probably give one a try when I pick up a new box.

The "thigh rest" does seem to answer all of the problem issues: placement in a rack looks like a non issue, supporting the horn in the appropriate position looks doable, there's no 'weld it to the horn' stuff needed, and it isn't all that different than what's been done in the past (for want of a better term, it has a low "geek factor").

The one thing that bothers me is the price: about $400.00 in real money, "...excluding fitting..." (which could mean setting it up on the horn in one sense of the word, but over here would tend to indicate that one of the parts costs extra). That's one vicious tariff, there.

I had two seat straps made over the last couple months, on the theory that I'm bound to lose one of them some day. I used the local S&M leather shop to do the work, giving them a couple of bass clarinet neckstrap hooks for the attachment point, and they turned out an excellent final product. They are smooth black leather on the top, sueded leather on the bottom, with the hook both stitched in and flush riveted for security.

Total cost for the two was along the order of $40.00 bucks. Much less of an impact ion the bottom line of my bassoon budget....

[Chris Peryagh]

Again, it's the 'wait until the US$ gains strength' thing to justify the cost.

As for fitting, it looks relatively easy enough for any tech (or any experienced DIY-er) to do - remove the sling ring and E plate, then fit the steel band over the tenon ring (below the sling ring screw hole) and tighten it up. Replace the E plate and sling ring and check the E plate still closes the crook key without the support fouling anything.

I don't know if it's as easy to fit if you've got a RH crook lock fitted, though I'm sure the maker has designed it with this in mind (in the UK and Europe the LH crook lock is the norm).

[Tim Price]

#!- TENOR CLEF IS PRETTY EASY..Don't run from it. I take my students thru some easy MELODYS in the clef....then....Show them the right way to READ the clef. Melody wise...easy stuff to lock it in.
TRY - - 2 lines of tenor clef a week.
DO NOT DO MORE!!!
Make your summer goal- MASTER THE TENOR CLEF.
2 lines till you SEE/HEAR the notes 2ed nature.

From there its a sail.....its only a clef- hahaha.;) :D

Try this book too...http://www.drdowningmusic.com.au/Tenor-Clef.html
I use it in my bassoon teaching and its very good.

ALSO- a must search out book is ;


#2- - Pictorial Fingerings for Bassoon by Don Christlieb

You might need to search and even photo copy a friends but every serious bassoon player NEEDS this book. Its a must!!! I got my copy from Don when I was studying with him. THE SEARCH IS WORTH IT. Plus some tenor clef concepts in there will help you.


ReMEmBEr WHAT ZAPPA SAID ABOUT BASSOON ; "Some people crave baseball. I find this unfathomable, however, I do understand how someone could get excited about playing a bassoon." ..,,, Frank Zappa quote ;

[Woodwind guy]

Hi,
just thought i'd contribute to this...
Yeah I kinda approacched from the other direction, with bassoon as my main axe, and sax following close behind. The two, especially with tenor and baritone, seem to compliment each other quite well, with no real embouchure issues. Like other members said too, it's great fun, but do it properly, there's not many things worse than a really bad bassoon sound, especially when it has so much potential.
anyway, great!
go for it. :)

[Merlin]

I seem to be getting a bunch of bassoon calls lately. Just did White Christmas subbing on the Reed 5 book yesterday, and have a session booked with a singer in Jan. on bassoon and clarinet.

I'll echo what others have said about there being no shortcuts.

I put my bassoon on the left when I'm doing theatre doubling. WC has a number of fast changes from bassoon to bari. I play the bassoon on a neckstrap, so I just lay it in my lap, and play the bari on stand.

[kelsey]

oops wrong thread

[herbert]

Have you tried one of these?

http://howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=.....JPG&pid=34308


I use this:

http://wincresearch.com/leghook.htm

It has its own stand; and the bassoon can be put in place in a jiff. Also, not so expensive.

Herbert