Best way to get into a conservatory?

[saxman124578]

I decided i would waste all of your time some more and ask for some school advice.

I am going to be a Senior in the Seattle area this next year, I am a very unique sax player indeed, I don't rip the changes like most other sax players, I play very tenderley and "Getz" like. But when I rip....you know it. I am not trying to be a jerk or anything but I have a bright future for jazz saxophone. My problem is finding my right college. I am trying out for the GRAMMY HIGH SCHOOL JAZZ ENSEMBLE and that means this would be a free ticket to almost any college if i get in. BUT, all of the insane monster try out for this group so I don't know my chances on getting in. I am thinking Bereklee, Manhattan, North Texas-as a last resort- or the Thornton School of music at USC. Studying abroad would be cool, but i need to establish a name in whatever city I go to.

I have had about 5 scholarship offers from various smaller music programs in my area and one in California....is this a good sign? I need to go to a school that offers me a scholarship because there really isn't money for college.....but that's how it goes.

Any help would....well, help.

[CodyW]

So what are you asking? If 5 scholarships are a good sign?

[saxman124578]

Well....yeah, 5 schools are mad to get me, but their schools don't have amazing-although good- jazz programs.

I want the big school, I don't buy this crap that you can get just as good education somewhere else....that's simply not true! The competition and the different players of the conservatory's are what sets them apart....those ad the teachers that are and are not ad-junct.

So, still, any help would be appreciated!

[GenericGuy]

I suggest you take the scholarship and school that are most attractive to you and get all of your core classes out of the way for 2-years... then apply to a university with a great jazz program (i.e. North Texas, Flordia, etc) and apply for transfer scholarships. Make sure you keep your grades up (4.0 if possible.)

At North Texas if you receive a $1,000 scholarship from the school you also get in-state tuiton. The easiest scholarships to receive will be academic scholarships (hense, keep up your grades.) There are limited playing scholarships for undergrad and the saxophone world there very competative. I was able to graduate with cash left in the bank, and got a great music education from it. Berklee and Manhattan are great schools as well... but you're going to be paying for those big-name teachers.

BTW, congrats on the scholarship offers you have received.

Jason

[JohnL]

My suggestion is to apply to as many conservatories as you can. The thing I learned last year when auditioning for conservatories is that just because you are a good enough player to attend the school doesn't mean you will be accepted. After auditioning for the Peabody Conservatory in Baltimore I had a really good conversation about the audition with the classical saxophone teacher Gary Louie who said "I was certainty good enough to get in." What he didn't tell me is that because there are so many outstanding saxophonist auditioning, (many of them transfer students) and so few openings, there is no guarantee to that kind of school regardless of your skill level. The jazz studies director at Peabody said that in the first and least competitive year of the program there were 25 students that greatly surpassed the qualifications to fill the program but with only 16 spaces in the program that means 9 great players were sent home.

While the rejection from Peabody was disappointing, I’m now of the opinion that a conservatory undergrad education wasn’t for me. I had another school with a great jazz program on my acceptance list that I simply couldn't afford to go to. Now, I am going to school for free with 2 great private teachers (one of them a sub for the New York Philharmonic) and a very impressive music program. This allows me to hold on to my money for a bigger name grad school education, which I have been told is much more important than undergrad for musicians. After having numerous talks about my choice of schools with professional musicians and great teachers, I would really urge you to consider a smaller school with less of a reputation and more individual attention. I think many monster players find themselves a very small fish in a large pond in the conservatory situation, largely because of the fact that the professors there have had so many great students that it is very difficult to leave a lasting impression on them (this is probably especially true at North Texas with so many saxophonists). A smaller school will likely provide more attention from private teachers and professors. As far as money is concerned, if you are counting on any conservatory to carry the load of a 30,000 to 45,000 yearly tuition I think you might be disappointed in what they will offer regardless of your talent. Most of these schools offer scholarships more on what instrumentation they are trying to fill more than individual merit. While you might be fortunate and receive a huge package from one of these big schools (it's certainty not unheard of), expect nothing.

I hope my advice helps you on your college search. You are about to be in for an intense ride once the auditions begin. Just remember that the best you can do is the best you can do and try not to concentrate too hard on the other guys auditioning. The schools are looking for students that can mature into a great player in 4 years, which may not be the hotshot at the audition.

[paulwl]

The best way to get into a conservatory is with a glass cutter. Try not to knock over any plants.

8)

[saxman124578]

Thanks, everyone....Stuff to think about!

Glass cutter huh? sounds good to me.

[TheChristianSax]

Saxman124578,

North Texas-as a last resort
Not being biased(graduated from there, though not in music :( ), but I would think of UNT as a first resort! The One O'clock lab band is something to be reckoned with!!! Get as much information as you can from the schools you are interested in, such as tuition and financing, housing, programs(music and others), area music scene, surrounding cities, and the geographic area it is situated in to get an idea of other factors that fit your personality. This may give you a better picture of which school fits best with you. Good luck!!

[saxman124578]

The thing about UNT is that it is not a sax based school, the 1 o'clock lab band sax's (i heard them about 5 months ago) just SUCKED! they played the most bull-**** I've ever heard, it sucked...no taste...no class....frustrating.

[GenericGuy]

UNT definitely has a lot of sax going on. The 1 O'clock isn't the only thing going on. They normally play student compositions (usually composed by One O'clock members)... I have a feeling you'd drift more towards the 2 O'clock. They play a lot of Kenton and Basie standards. But, there are 9 jazz lab bands and a total of about 100-120 sax players (based on the semester.)

UNT is a bop school... Your Getz description isn't UNT. You'll want an environment that is more West-coast in its approach. You will find no smooth jazz and very limited west-coast at North Texas.

If you want big-band experience there is no school that is better than UNT. If you want combo playing, then Berklee is going to be better. Dollar-for-dollar UNT is far more bang for your buck. You will probably be studying with a player in the One or Two O'clock since Jim Riggs takes a limited number of students. But, the one thing UNT is always good for is finding a place for everybody.

[SaxyAcoustician]

Just get the applications, fill them out, and send them in. Make sure you do whatever the schools ask to get on the list for scholarship consideration.

What else is there to advise and suggest? Oh, and keep practicing because there are lots of killer players out there even at your age.

[TheChristianSax]

The thing about UNT is that it is not a sax based school

I agree with GenericGuy that there is a lot more going on than the One O'clock at UNT. It sounds like you do have a pretty good idea of what you are not looking for in a school, which is good. Like I said, get as much diversified information as you can to make an informed decision, then come up with a backup plan. Again, good luck.

[gary]

I went to UNT twice. The second time there were over 300 sax players. Like bees to honey. Don't know why so many would swarm to such a non-sax-based school.

And..the One O'Clock "sucked"? On what planet?

[SaxyAcoustician]

And..the One O'Clock "sucked"? On what planet?

My sentiments exactly. If you're too good for the 1 O'Clock, then I guess you don't have to go to college for music. Just move to NYC and start hitting it with the pros.

[saxman124578]

No, no, you misquoted me. I never said the 1'Oclock band sucked....they were AMAZING, some of the best jazz i've ever heard....just incredible. What I DID say were that the sax's sucked, and i'll stick by it till i die, because they had no class.....the first tenorist just wasted his Brilhart Tonalin...tsk tsk.

Well thanks for the info on UNT, that really helped me decide I don't want to go there and for what reasons. It's looking like Berklee or Manhattan is in the lead. Though the Thornton school of music at USC is still really nice.

[gary]

No, no, you misquoted me.
And you are absolutely correct. I did misquote you. What I DID say were that the sax's sucked,..."
New comment: The saxes sucked? On what planet?! :evil:

(LOL, sorry, coldn't resist.)
Seriously, when I hear something "sucked" to me that's a pretty comprehensive statement. Surely these folks did not suck. You didn't like their tone. Were there also things about the phrasing, technique, dynamics, etc. that you also didin't like?

Oh, about Berklee and Manhattan. If possible at all, visit both schools while they're in session and talk to the students and faculty. I realize this is just a "snapshot" but I have attended summer sessions of both Berklee (in Italy) and MSM (in the Netherlands) and the faculty, as well as the NY students were different animals.

[saxman124578]

Yeah, I'm definately going to go sit in at a couple of classes next year when i take my tour around Manhattan and Bereklee.

To make my point VERY clear on the UNT saxes......I can't stand saxophone players who have no class, neither of them had ANY, they literally played as many random notes as they could.....and they weren't geniuses either, other college players that i've heard live can rip better than they did and still have some class. They didn't have any taste, I couldn't pick out too many chord tones in their playing.....just a bunch regurgitated Coltrane licks that they've practiced for hours and hours and hours.

[gary]

So you're talking about two soloists and not the entire sax section.

[Aaron__B]

what saxman is saying I've heard also. UNT is known for producing lick-playing brecker clones. It seems however that that's the type of jazz people like hearing. I myself prefer melody over mindless pattern regurgitation.

[saxman124578]

Yes and no gary.....The two tenors dropped the ball on any sort of class or tasteful playing....the lead alto did too, he was an old man playing new stuff....the 2nd alto player was awesome though, he had some good class.....so not the WHOLE section but the majority....bari player was ok....in the middle somewhere.

[justinnike83]

[Chris S]

edited because I was mean to the guy who uses the word 'class' without ever saying what he means by it....

Where is the world headed now that UNT isn't a good school anymore? At least I'll learn to suck really well.

Chris S