OVERWHELMED & DEPRESSED .....

[Cameron Wigmore]

Well, I'm not overwhelmed or depressed today, but it happens on occasion. Usually once a month, I feel like there's way too much to learn. I get frustrated with my playing and down on myself for not being better. Basically I sit on the 'pity pot' for a few days. Then I snap out of it and spend a week or so just obsessed with playing, learning, writing, etc. I get happy about music again. Balance and moderation would be great, but I can't force that. Inspiration comes when it comes.

I'm wondering who else goes through this. Can you cats relate?

[Mike Cesati]

You talkin' to me . I hear ya,creativity comes in spurts. Just think back when you started and how far you've come,then think where you want to be. Then just go for it. I prefer to be content just CHIPPING away at the iceberg so to speak.It took me a long time to like the process of growing because I've been very crirical and judgmental of my musicianship. When you listen to guys like Rollins and Joe henderson then check yourself out it can be painful but building on what you got is what to focus on. Keep the faith

[Lowell]

Short answer: Yes.
Long answer I won't bore you but since you are in Edmonton, realise that some of your depression comes from winter and that will soon pass. There is so much to learn that it is overwhelming if you dwell on it. Make a reasonable plan of study and stick to it. Keep some fun in your playing. Do you play with a regular group? Work up three really good tunes with them and attend a local jam. Playing for an appreciative audience is a huge morale booster. Play at a seniors home. A couple big band swing tunes will have them putting you in their wills.

[EllSyd]

Cam,

I always found that there are a lot of "plateaus" (plateaux if you insist on correct French) in learning an instrument. For a while you get better as you practise, then for a while you don't seem to progress no matter how much you work at it, then suddenly after a few days, or weeks, or maybe months if you're unlucky you'll be making progress again. The better you get, the longer the plateau periods.

Maybe that's what you're experiencing - getting depressed when you hit a plateau.

[Andrew]

Yeah...I find myself in that situation a lot...I don't think it will ever "balance" itself out, despite how we all really really wish it would. It's annoying...

[Tim Price]

Guys- I HEAR YA!!!! I hope this makes some kinda sense.
Innocence is a beautiful state,but to play this music, in today's enviroment takes all a person can muster.Today more than ever...we are in a wealth of saxual information.Everything is printed and available.All the tunes you need to know are somewhere within' a flip of a computer button.
Then there's the issue some of us face...like I do...of being your own booking agent and manager.It can be devistating,and reak havok on you and your personal life.And be-sing/overwealing.LOL !
To- BRING ME BACK TO A JAZZ REALITY,OR SAXOPHONE BASED REALITY..I ask myself this question.What
happened to MY childish delight in music? But it is still there, hidden, almost forgotten some daze , overcome with a thousand pressures and responsibilities. Many spiritual paths teach us that we must withdraw from the world in order to find ourselves anew, but few can afford do this.The plane from Philly to a beach in Jamica seems like a cool idea...but I need to make a living.haha-
Complexity theory gives us another way. The state of being overwealmed by details corresponds to a chaotic state, with too many connections active. To allow ourselves to re-create the imagination of youth,as when we first started to play our horns, we need to restrict the information we take in.Break it down...THINK SIMPLE.
Pick up your sax and....close your eyes and....WAIL.Let the horn moan, scream,cry,talk...let the passion out...also drain yourself of your issues today.Your holding one of the most powerful pills to your sanity ever developed-THE SAXOPHONE. No kidding...go in a corner...listen to yourself...forget what you need to know....just be GLAD you know what you do!!! Ya dig???!!!?? Let the horn go-even if you
really are not playing that long..let it wail...you'll feel it inside.
This information we want to absorb-
a new tune to study, a part to get for a band, going on the road, all these add to the combinations of ideas we have. The more we know, the more novelty we can generate, the closer then we can approach that ideal state of a perfect and exciting life that we surely all desire. Excitement in life is to be found !
Look to the MUSIC first...the rest will line up.
Also, I do a lot of reading...I invest in time by MYSELF. I let me focus re-charge.
Read auto-bios of great musicians, put some energy into yourself...read anything.Go for walks ( with NO cd player!! )...let your mind chill.
One of the hippest books I EVER read...is by Hazrat Inayat Khan..called "The Music Of Life". That book if I read one page..I am READY.It's that cool.
I laid it on Ernie Watts and he agrees to, it's a cool book.EVERYONE on this forum should read!!! There's another book- I read by accident...I found it in an airport book shop..It's called "You Can Be Happy No Matter What"...by R. Carlson.It's very basic,and east to understand.Plus a fun read.
- Trust me...doing what I do at times can be the top of the depression ladder! If I think about things like...the $$$ has not changed very much in the last half-decade,clubs have closed etc etc...I go into a DEEP FUNK. Not to mention
the stuff I'm trying to accomplish as a player/educator.
YOU ....must steer your own car, don't let depression do it,and keep overwealming issues in the back seat...in order.Use THEM as steps to help you. I keep a diary of STUFF I'm shedding and TRYING to shed.That helps a lot. FOCUS!!!
I hope this is some what of a help,it's info. that can be tapped into,and food for thought.
OH- one last thing...I'm not a follower of this man but he does say interesting things...check this out- "Man thrives, oddly enough, only in the presence of a challenging environment." — L. Ron Hubbard.
There are many ways to go- hope this helps a bit.

[sessionsax]

Someone smart said that your greatest enemy was yourself. I understand and I think most everyone could join in on this.

My biggest enemy is my confidence. It comes and goes -- and it always stifles creativity.

I have found one thing that helps me, and that is to focus on playing things that you like and quit comparing yourself against others.

For instance, I really love Kirk Whalums tone on tenor -- yet when I play, I don't sound "exactly" like him. I have a tendency to compare my playing against anothers and expect them to match -- because "someone elses tone or playing style must be better than mine" (insecurity talking there).

In short, being a good player is kinda like growing up -- remember in middle and high school the feelings you had when you struggled determining who you were and what you wanted to be.

Well life have a way of working that out -- the funny thing is that with our creative side, we never seem to get that balance -- regardless.

Be who you are and it will help with the imbalance. Everyone has a different voice and something to offer.

[Steve J.]

To follow is a quote that is posted in my office. Unfortunately I can't remember the source but I think it is well worth posting here. Its always elevated my spirit.

"Press on - Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

[max]

Calvin Coolidge

(courtesy of Google... :wink: )

[MikeS]

"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
Pogo

[Zman]

Jeez, I thought the enemy was cane reeds...and pad leaks, they're the enemy too... :D

Cam, just keep strappin' on your lig, man. Every day is a new adventure. Mountain peak today, valley tomorrow...then another peak!

[Troy]

For me, it helped a lot when I switched to enjoying the process.

Instead of being disappointed because I'm not where I want to be, I can now keep chipping away at whatever (any goal) and enjoy the process of becoming what I want to be. Much better on the ol' psyche. :)

...and surprisingly, I'm getting better more quickly now than I was when I just was moping around about how I'd never get as good as I want to be.

[hershel]

for many of us(if not all)inspiration comes and goes.
oh fickle fickle muse.
some days it feels great to play when your blue,
and some days it doesn't.
there is the great mysteries of chemistry and mood.
a nap?
some love?
some good choclate?
perhaps beans, greens and rice,
or tim's advice for a walk or a good read.
for me, inspiration just returns.
i just have to hold on till then and do my best
to treat myself right.

[kcp]

Me too! I'm often going through all these existentialist phases where I find that I'm not good enough, where I whish that I'd be more like so and so... but you know what they say, the grass always seems greener on the neighbor's front lawn.

I remember once when I sent an email in reply to a musician wanted ad. The person replyed back to me and we began exchanging to get to know eachother better. Turns-out that the guy I'm corresponding with recognized me, had seen and heard me play before. The guy freaks-out, thinks that I play way too good for he and his band and I'm like: "Uh??? :shock: " I had never realized that someone else would think that of me.

It does feel good when that happens. But it's also a good idea to keep your head cool too, because I suspect that the opposite can happen to :lol:
I think the trick is to just be yourself and be happy of what you have accomplished so far.

[Gandalfe]

If I could play perfectly then I would be bored and move on to something else. Take Tic-Tac-Toe, it's easy to master and predictable, depending on the player. No challenge, so I don't play it much. Chess, golf, and saxophone, I can't/won't spend the time necessary to make it perfect. So I live for those moments when the sax player next to me turns and says, "Wow, that was excellent."

Another indication of the value I place on my time with the sax is, three hours with the band still seems like 15 minutes to me. And after the practice, as others put up their horns, I'm still noodling around. When I get home I am so jazzed that I can't sleep for hours end though it's three hours past my bedtime. Life is good!

[Keith Ridenhour]

Some excellent advice above. Best cure I've found for my problems (whatever they are in the moment) is to take a break and listen to someone else's problems. In other words take the focus off me and try to help someone else. Seems to always work. And Boy I can relate to what Tim said above. I remember clearly getting back into music about 9 years ago and buying that first beat up Buescher Alto and a Duk piece. I noodled in the basement playing Beach Boys and old rock tunes feeling like a million bucks. Now, 9 years later I'll get tired and pissed during the 4th set of a 50 dollar per man bar gig and wonder where did the joy of playing go. It is easy (for me) to forget why I started Music in the first place and get distracted by all the ego, commercial, comparison crap. Hang in there, Cam. A great friend of mine would respond to the ups and downs of my life with one sentence all the time. "This too shall pass. " K

[Cameron Wigmore]

Thanks Tim P and every one.

Keith R - another one is , "e-z duz it."

[MitchP]

We all tend to want to be/sound like someone else. The trick is realizing your strenghths and capatilizing on them. Miles is a great eaxample of this: his tone.

[Oakleaf]

everyone does this. if you dont you or havent from time to time you arent normal. not to be mean or put anyone down. you should want to get better at what you do, and you should want it so bad it posses you. it posses me. Music is a growing experience. you just got growing pains. and not a bad tv show either.

[puresaxman]

Cam-
I agree with most and say that we all get down on ourselves and our playing abilities. Always remember that there are alot of players that don't play as well as yourself. Unfortunately, we've all known someone with no musical talent no matter how much they tried. When I get in a rut,
I put on one of my favorite recordings alone by myself and try to keep up lick for lick. Sometimes I'm close other times we just don't want to talk about it. :( Usually it really helps the depression thing to subside and go away. Keep your head up and remember music is a beautiful thing cherish it as long as you humanly can........... :D

[sessionsax]

One more point on this,

All of us are going to find times when its hard to get motivated and when everything just doesnt gell.

I have had days that I felt my playing had slipped back years -- I just couldnt do what I did the day before.

On days like this, its a good time to work on the basics. Work the scales and long tones. Work on you embrochure and phrasing. Do some finger twisters based on short motifs -- ect.

I have gone as long as a couple of weeks just noodling with the basics, but it helps get me over the hill and has benefits in the long run.

Unfortunately we can't always tune out the bad emotions -- but we can perservere.

[JimD]

When I hit those periods I do exactly what sessionsax says, I play exercises, do development stuff, real basic stuff sometimes, and look forward to tomorrow, or the day after, when it will all flow free again. Also I find that sometimes just sticking on an album and blowing along with it will give me the lift I need. The bad, or not so good, days come around too often to just let the mood overwhelm me so I just keep blowing and know that a better day is coming.

[tledjazz]

For me, it helped a lot when I switched to enjoying the process.

Instead of being disappointed because I'm not where I want to be, I can now keep chipping away at whatever (any goal) and enjoy the process of becoming what I want to be. Much better on the ol' psyche. :)

...and surprisingly, I'm getting better more quickly now than I was when I just was moping around about how I'd never get as good as I want to be.

I think you hit it Troy. Enjoy the journey, value the process. Be in the moment.

All easier said than done. Balancing the challenge of musical growth and development with the rigors of contemporary life (bills, credit histories, day gig (ugh!) marriage, family, home improvements) it can be totally overwhelming. Sometimes it's just nice to hear that you're not alone.

[Wailin']

One of the greatest revival comes from physical exercise. There's not a day that I get home from a full day's work and not want to pick up the saxophone and blow. If you're like me you rechannel the tension you feel inside into thorough practise. I read someplace that Parker was really venting all the hate he felt inside in his music. For every note he played there were ten objects of hate.

When you don't feel like playing go jogging, biking, try lifting weights or some other form of rigorous exercise. You'll feel rejuevenated after to pick up that horn and blow :lol:

[Lyle]

A wise guy once said, "the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know."

I purchased James Houlik's CD, Tenor Tapestry, for inspiration. After listening to James, I was musically depressed for several days. I had thought that my sax playing was not too bad. After listening to James, I thought of my playing as, toot, toot. Although listening to James did deflat my musical ego, it also inspired me to improve my toot, toot.

[Cameron Wigmore]

I'm glad that there are other sax cats who can relate.

[synchro]

I can relate to what alot of people have said here. Some days are frustrating and I feel like giving up completely. Other days I feel like every note is pure and sweet like honey.
People will tell me I sound good, and I think, I'm an amateur and not even close to being good. Other times I blow what I think is a really hot solo and no one says a word.
Just gotta keep marching onward though.

[pepper]

i definately relate to a lot thats written here. sometimes i wonder why i bother spending so much time and energy on something that gives me such mixed results.

i think the hardest thing about trying to learn to play sax is the fact that as a jazz fan your constantly listening (and to an extent measuring up with) musicans of the utmost talent, techniqe and creativity. i've got musican friends who are into punk, pop and rock etc, who never really have this problem. it's like learning to draw from scratch and comparing your work to a Piccasso, Kandinsky or Gorky.

what i find helps is that i think to myself that if someone had asked me 18months ago (when i first started playing) would i be happy with my progress at the present time, i'd have said yes definately.

a lot of the musicans i respect greatly have been playing 40plus years, and have had a lifetime of experience and learning. so the trick is to stick at it and try not to be too down on yourself.

[paulwl]

A lot of things about music depress me. Not all of them are negative things.

Putting in time and effort and not getting anything out.
The knowledge that some have had to put in much more time and effort than I.
The dedication, deep mastery of craft, and total devotion to music shown by some great players, because I know that not only don't I equal it, I really don't even want to. Music is the most important thing in my life, but it's still not that important.
The inevitable self-question: "then what right have you to do music at all?"
The fact that I came back to music to leave the rat race behind, only to discover music has its own rat race.
The fact that I might be doing a lot more if I were part of that rat race. <sigh>
The fact that there are more able musicians than there will ever be opportunity for, and that when you come right down to it, nobody (including musicians) really cares.

At times like these I won't even play a CD or radio, let alone pick up a horn. That's how it is today. Instead I went to Google Groups, looked up as many posts as I could stand to read about how music is supposed to be so tough and how discipline is all, and pounded myself into a deep, deep hole.

I won't say the good times make up for the bad, but I do forget the bad times almost completely then. That's nice.

[Lyle]

I am satisfied when someone, anyone enjoys my sax tooting. It will never be as good as I would like but then, I will never be as good as I would like at anything.
Music is for pleasure! Just to have a beautilful silver tenor sax is a joy. The fact that I can make what sounds like music brightens my day. I find nothing at all in all that to cause depression. Take my sax away, or cripple my fingers; now we are talking depression!

[MJ]

Music and Depression:
To paraphrase Abe Lincoln, "musicians are about as happy as they want to be." I started playing/playing around with a saxophone about four months, though I've been taking trumpet for a year. Now trumpet is hard! What a revelation to be able to play those ridiculously high notes above the staff on the sax! On purpose! Now I plug away at both instruments with my instructor and thoroughly enjoy the musical challenges.
Listening to the great sax and trumpet players, I appreciate their talents and skills. Maybe I won't ever reach the heights of musicianship, but my audiences are pretty lenient over short "concerts" at home or in Grandpa's retirement home.
Because music has been woven through my life all these years, the right song selection on CD or radio station helps lift my spirit in the worst of times. If music isn't enjoyable, what is it?

[paulwl]

For an amateur, it can be enjoy`ble. For a professional (and I'm beginning to wonder whether I am one), it has to be something you do even when there is NO enjoyment involved.

I am largely self-taught and never cared much for traditional music teaching or the way it made me feel about myself or my playing. It's now 25 years after I picked up a sax as a naturally talented kid. Musically, I've grown like crazy - every way but up. I still don't demand 110% perfection, don't bash my head against the frustrating stuff, don't put any pressure on myself to meet standards outside my own. In short, I don't have - don't even want - the work ethic necessary to compete with or even earn the respect of other pros.

Never mind how well I play - I play pretty damn well. That's not important at this level. There's a saying that music is full of talented losers who couldn't hack the harsh, everyday, total demands of it. When they talk about those people, I feel deeply that they're talking about people like me, and I don't feel like I've paid my dues enough to tell tham any different.

[Eulipion2]

I started playing the sax in 5th grade (about 12 years ago), and have since gone on to be a music major in college. At the end of my sophomore year I was so frustrated with music that I gave up, switched schools, switched my major to physics. But I just couldn't stop playing my horn. I took lessons. And after the semester break I'd had enough of physics...I had to play! I'm still frustrated with my abilities, but coming in to my fourth year of school, no matter how depressed I am about my music, I look for what good I can find. Music is a part of us. That's why we play. And I think knowing just how much it means to me, knowing how attached I am to it, and knowing what it's like without it, helps me through my times of doubt.

[JL]

Eulipion said it. If you're a musician, you HAVE to play. That's it. If you keep playing and working (playing?) at it, you'll get better, then get frustrated, then quit, then pick the horn up again out of NECESSITY, and each time around you'll get better. Sometimes it all comes together on the stage and for that moment it's all worth it. You can't quit doing it anyway, so just keep going and dig evdry moment (or at least the good ones). So that's my philosophy and I've been at it awhile.

[Razzy]

paulwl, I think when that's said, it usually refers to those who skate on natural talent, BUT they really honestly think they can become a professional and make a living off of music without making sacrifices and without practicing things they really might not care for, doing gigs they might not want to do at all, or practicing diligently for 4 or more hours a day. You're lucky in that you understand your limitations and don't strive to be something you're not cut out for. The unlucky ones, I meet them all the time, they work at local music stores typically...

[paulwl]

I don't know, Razzy...I know my limitations, but it's the limitations imposed on me by the "expected" way of being a musician that really get me down. I play music I love and believe in, but it's as if I would have to play music I don't love and don't believe in to earn respect - even from other musicians.

That's what I'm not cut out for. I'm just as much about the music as the playing - that's what I signed on for. I just notice some contempt (not personal!) from the hardcore "business" musicians. They speak as if their way is the only way - everything else is slack, suspect, somehow worthy of contempt.

Here's the thing. It's actually rare that I get depressed about music itself. Mostly it's about those g*dd@m expectations - put out there by faceless (imaginary?) pros in some magazine or on a bulletin board. It may be as much my head trip as anything else. Maybe there's some encouragement to be had in that.

Thanks for the kind words, gang...in JL's words, I will just keep going, and dig every (digable) moment. Music is my greatest gift. No one can take it away.

[swingerini]

Paul -- you've been posting this kind of stuff for a few years, now..

:idea: :idea: :idea:
Have you ever considered moving back to the midwest; back to Iowa ?

The NYC area and it's music scene(s) maybe isn't the best place for
a musician w/ your sensitive temperament , and self-consciousness,
introspective leanings .

And ... you're not getting any younger .. maybe a return to your roots
would be healthy for you. :)

Also your penchant for older styles might go over better in someplace
like Davenport, for example . :wink:

You could take your act back to Iowa and escape a lot of the pressures
that you feel coming from your peers(?)

With the bigger cities getting more pressurized, maybe a relocation is
just what you need ?

[Razzy]

I think I know what you mean Paul. It's just funny, I think of limitations as not wanting to do things you don't have your heart in, and you think of them as being forced to do those things... different perspective I suppose. And I know what you mean about the contempt by the big music moguls if you don't do things their way. Hell, I even experience that with my teacher, who wants to develop me into a theater/pit musician. Something I've done in the past and sure would enjoy being better at as a doubler, but it's not where my real passion lies.

[Sigmund451]

Someone said Art is Pain and Pain is Art....well at least I think someone said that. If they didnt I just did.

I worked in the visual arts for a great number of years and its the same old story. Once a mont or two you lay out your work, look through it all and then begin tossing it across the room.

I dont reccomend you do that with your horn....repair rates run over 50 bucks an hour and that kind of fit would put you in debt.

Point being...its natural...crazy...but natural. Go with it, hate yourself for a day and move on. There is always tommorrow to be grandiose :P

[Tim Price]

Wisdom is the ability of an understanding to recognise,imho, it is not knowledge.

Knowledge is the recognition of cause and effect which is independent of good or evil. Realising that a man will die if he has his head removed is knowledge, deciding if a particular decapitation is an accident, a crime or the upholding of justice, is wisdom.

The greater the experience the more extensive the lessons and the better the decisions must become. Hence the older an understanding to draw upon and the wiser the decisions that will result, subject to some crucial limitations.

What is wise to one may be foolish to another. So while knowledge is universal, wisdom is specific.

This all shatters via being an artist. :Shocked: :Shocked:

An artist MUST....stand strong.And sometimes...stand alone.
REMEMBER:

Art, especially JAZZ, Constantly Needs Refining The world constantly changes so that previous decisions must be regularly modified in the light of new experience.
This music....is about your feelings ,, your sanity OR lack there of.
You gotta care via the art...but then comes a fine line!
Learning from the experience of previous generations gives humans a huge advantage over other creatures. This is not just about the arts , but about life. Our basic morality which supplies understanding will have been extended and applied over the centuries to create a huge pool of wisdom which will be reflected in an increasingly refined code of living .
With that said. When I get bummed or get dark...or depressed.
I either go to my horn....turn the lights out and....JUST PLAY.
Listen to some MONK. Monk ALWAYS cheers ya up.
And- there are other avenues if ya want to just chill.
Johnny Walker Red
Heinken with a Tequila
Tequila with a Heinken
Grey Goose Vodka
I guess........it's all a matter of prespective.
When ya play you put 100% in to it.
You did your best.
If folks dig it....COOL.
If not.....COOL AS WELL.
The main thing is........DO IT.

[gary]

Whew!!!!

[Lyle]

The degree of stimulation is directly proportional to the stimuli. :wink:

[paulwl]

Food for thought from Tim. The whole-grain, yeasty kind, the kind you want to chew on awhile.

For me, depression is in part a cerebral activity. I can actually muster up a lot of psychic energy to send negative messages and keep myself down. This makes it hard to think deeply about myself and the world around me, because it often becomes an exercise in self-negation.

If I may, an example:

When ya play you put 100% in to it.
You did your best.
If folks dig it....COOL.
If not.....COOL AS WELL.
The main thing is........DO IT.
Hmm.

I know, from long experience, that I'm incapable of "phoning it in." When I perform, play for the 4 walls, or just for the joy of it, I always put 100% into it.

But not when I practice, study, or "apply myself" with any systematic deliberation.

I try new things, but until I know I can concentrate fully on them without frustration or negative vibes, they don't get into my daily routine.

I give myself no $#!+ whatsoever during my practice time. That comes after.

They say, "Be good to yourself." Well, that outlook applied to daily practice may have left great big gaping holes in my chops, my ears, my musical being. "Look at me, I'm age such-and-such and I've played with whosis at wherever, but screw all that! I still can't do so-and-so!"

So do I have to start exposing myself, cautiously and in small doses, to more psychic self-abuse in the woodshed? Because I have the feeling that's what it's going to take to get me doing what I don't do well, often enough to DO it well.

Or maybe I've just talked myself into this belief so I don't have to get any better in concrete, measurable, goody-goody shiny-black-shoes-and-pants audition-winning kinds of ways.

So I come to the belief that sometimes, "doing your best" really isn't. If you haven't stood up to that feeling of hopelessness and frustration and said, "Well, tough. Maybe I deserve it. I'm going to go on through it because maybe this is The Price You Pay."

I picked up my New Aristocrat alto last night. I sounded beautiful, if I do say so myself. I didn't feel beautiful. I felt like a 16-year-old Taco Bell worker trying to get into Jennifer Connelly's pants. I felt like, "Who the hell do I think I'm kidding? No matter how fluently I may move here, this is Not My World."

So what is the problem here? Too much Pain in my Art or not enough?

[Tim Price]

Food for thought from Tim. The whole-grain, yeasty kind, the kind you want to chew on awhile.
So what is the problem here? Too much Pain in my Art or not enough?

Paul- Interesting....
I hear you.Its a fine line isn't it?

If we can see the connection between mind, body and spirit and treat their physical and emotional ailments as a whole,
all of these aspects of being are interconnected.

This body mind connection occurs through vehicles called meridians. We have thousands of meridians, which are energy channels that run throughout the body and are associated with our organs. In eastern medicine, this energy flow is referred to as chi or prana in Indian traditions. Prana means life force.

If this life force becomes blocked from trauma and/or from life’s demands (popularly know as stress), illness can occur. Illness can manifest in many forms.

These blocks in our life force can slow one’s progress toward creating a satisfying life. For example, one can be too ill or in too much pain to try new things.That often causes depression, which can inhibit one’s ability to create. Also, one’s creativity can be blocked by the stress in one’s life. When our creativity is blocked, we will never truly be able to assess what it is that moves us to a place of fulfillment and bliss.

Instead, we want to bring our bodies to a place where our life force energy flows freely. This flow can occur only with a dedicated mind. A mind committed to health and well being. The first step is to pay attention to breathing. If we fill our body with oxygen, we become energized and at the same time relaxed and our life force grows stronger. It is essential for optimal health that we bring oxygen into all of our cells.


My body continues to remind me to slow down, listen, get enough exercise, sleep, eat consciously and devote significant time to joyful, playful and pleasurable activities.Quieting my mind through meditation and practicing therapeutic yoga has allowed my mind to hear what my body and spirit need.
Over the years, I have accumulated a wealth of tools and techniques that one can use on a daily basis to stay centered, clear, focused and healthy. This lifestyle will ultimately lead to achieving ones fullest potential.

We should, I think, have a core system which begins with clearing old relationships with people and things. The clutter from years and projects gone by fall into this category, as do holding grudges, resentments and passing judgments. These outmoded behaviors and objects zap the energy we can instead be devoting to creating supportive relationships and environments that will carry us toward our dreams.Kalman Opperman once told me the most important word in our language is-NEXT !!

I try to organize my life so that it supports me to move to the next level. Another component is to maintain a balanced life that includes mindful eating, physical activity and some form of spiritual practice. Being centered, balanced, healthy, strong and flexible create the self-esteem, confidence, strength and stamina for being successful in life. Spirituality helps one to trust and let go of fear.

With this awareness, one begins to detect when one is off balance and how to make the necessary corrections to get back into balance. For example, one learns when one needs more sleep or exercise, what foods to eat to refuel, and how to discern healthy/supportive relationships from those that drain energy and hold one back from accomplishing ones dreams. To start is the biggest step,
one needs to begin is desire, willingness and trust in the process.

To much,not enough...The Isle of the Blest grew partly from Dante's Purgatorio, but also from Korin's beautifully simple picture by that name of the Buddhist version, and of course Tolkien's isle in the west, Elvenhome, where no mortal may tread.
Sometimes you need to let the mind just wander...ya know?

Which brings me to....Another quote that is popular is:
"Musicians are incredibly complex, and know far less than other artists what they want and what they are; their psychology is a modern development, and has not yet been understood..."
-E.M. Forster

Interesting yes??

Some things I've been studying that have been of huge inspiration to me as an artist are;
http://www.chopra.com/article.asp?id=9&program=chopra_seminars

http://www.chopra.com/article.asp?id=1&program=for_your_spirit

The 2ed group is something called....Namasté.
I've become aware of it through my friend Charles Lloyd.

It has a interesting theme and direction;

Namasté: I honor in you the divinity that I honor within myself and I know we are one.

It has firmed up issues I wanted to become clear on as an artist.
A few that I liked are;

~Sutra Meditation, advanced psychophysiological techniques to help you activate the expansive qualities of the heart, mind and spirit.

~How to tap into a greater source of energy and creativity(great for an improvisor)

~Subtle release work that offers playful ways to identify and eliminate emotional pain and blockages that keep you from feeling joy

~Ideal daily routines for optimal health that nurture your individual rhythms

~How to deepen your meditative practices to release stress and fatigue and manifest your heart’s desires

As they say YMMV... Thru ~NASAMENTE~
my sense of unity and well-being was expanded tremendously....
THAT IS A POSITIVE THING FOR ME.
These are some things I've used to open channels and try to expand.
~ HTH ~

[JL]

Mindfulness: Paying attention and living in the moment. This is what works best for me, although it is MUCH easier said than done. Playing music is one of those activities that helps you achieve such a state of mind. I find it almost impossible for my mind to wander when I'm in the middle of a solo up on the bandstand. Same is true, but to a lesser extent, when I'm practicing. Unfortunately, value judgments are necessary to measure your progress, but it's important to not get too hung up on them.

I really appreciate everone sharing their thoughts. It makes me realize we all go through negative, as well as positive states of mind. Take heart in the fact that not everyone has the strength and will to put themselves out there as a muscian does. All artists are special people.

[gary]

Thanks, Tim. I've known all of that and experienced it, but not much lately. I needed a reminder BIG TIME! Excellent summary. Thanks so much.

Cheeers. Gary.

[pepper]

thanks to everyone sharing their experiences here, this is one of the most thought provoking threads on site.

i find the conscious mind can be your worst enemy sometimes. unfortunately it's something that you need in order to function, and keeping it in check is an art in itself.

real art comes when you quiten this part of your mind and let your subconsious come into play. maybe easy access to this is what makes some musicians seem so innovative or emotionally direct (parker, pepper, webster etc). when you play from the subconsious is when your really talking.

the methods Tim wrote (very eloquently) about are all beneficial to this, and pretty much everything else you do as a human being.

in my pretty limited (musical and spiritual) experience i would say trying to consiouslly stay within 'the moment' is hugely important, and something to always aim for. whatever your degree of success in doing so, just keep going for the moment.

[Tim Price]

thanks to everyone sharing their experiences here, this is one of the most thought provoking threads on site.
i real art comes when you quiten this part of your mind and let your subconsious come into play. maybe easy access to this is what makes some musicians seem so innovative or emotionally direct (parker, pepper, webster etc). when you play from the subconsious is when your really talking.
the methods Tim wrote (very eloquently) about are all beneficial to this, and pretty much everything else you do as a human being.


Hey-thank you!!
Possessing an active imagination ranks high on my list of cherished blessings. When I hear someone describe themselves as having no imagination whatsoever, I find myself wanting to ask, “But how do you survive?”
In playing music.....one must have an active imagination to not only transfer the actual basics/learned information into actual creativity.
That's why I always push people as students to get foundational skills in memorization AND listening.

It goes hand in hand imho. Eg-IMAGINE THE SOUND.

Or even further...as I describe to advanced improv. students..ACTIVE MENTAL IMAGERY.

I like to read a lot.

The act of reading, for instance, immerses me in an alternate reality. I become easily lost in the pages of a book and many times have looked up only to realize hours have passed. Rather than suffering eyestrain or fatigue after such a marathon reading session, I often emerge reinvigorated, the same way you feel when you come home from a long vacation. This has saved me "on the road" as a musician because most of the time your in transit. LOL!!! Those 2 to 3 hours _on the gig_are nothing' compared to a long bus ride or airport layover.
FWIW-many musicians I've had the privilege to know are voracious readers. Eg-Ernie Watts, Joe Henderson, Phil Woods, Artie Shaw, Charles Lloyd, Bergonzi and Big Nick.
To mention a few. Watts has turned me on to many interesting metaphysical books and studies. In that way, Ernie has been a spiritual guide. ( ASIDE..from his musical inputs) But-reading is a part of study as well.

Concepts of contour, light and shade, proportions, space, composition, and expressiveness are all something any creative musician needs to be in touch with.
No matter if your STING or Joe Henderson or just a hobbyist.
By reading, you come face to face with these.
By reading you examine a variety of topics including memory, intelligence, learning, nature vs. nurture, states of consciousness, emotion, psychological development and personality.

If you casually read the theories of Freud, Watson, Skinner, Adler, Jung, Erikson and others to help discover why we are the way we are. That can't hurt on a bandstand with 18 players can it? :lol:

Personnel inventories, journal writing, and field trips will help us gain a better understanding of others and ourselves. An inquisitive mind, a willingness to share ideas, and openness to new ones all becomes part of you.

If you really want to check out some "cool stuff"....look for books by Hazrat Inayat Khan. One is called "The Mysticism Of Sound And Music"..the other..." The Music Of Life". Both are inspirational reads and fun.
In Inayat Khan's vision of human nature, human beings are whole systems that consist of four interpenetrated and interrelated sub-systems, each of which exists primarily though not exclusively on a separate plane: the physical body, the mind, the astral body, and the soul. The physical body is material and exists largely on the physical plane. The mind, which includes the heart, is a field of energy that exists mostly on the mental plane. The astral body consists of a higher level of energy and exists on the astral plane.
Finally, the soul exists on the spiritual or soul plane. It is composed of an even higher level of subtle energy.Another key element in Inayat Khan's vision is his belief that an ongoing evolution is the primary process in the universe.Again, this rings true with musicians.
A third element in this vision is that human beings include elements and qualities both of lower and higher forms of being. From the mineral kingdom, manifested primarily within the physical body, we have received stillness, hardness, and strength.
From the vegetable kingdom, also manifested in the physical body, we have received fruitfulness and usefulness.
From the animal kingdom, manifested in the physical body and in the mind, come our fighting nature and our tendency toward attachment.
From the astral plane, manifested both in the mind and in the astral body, we have received invention, artistry, and genius. And finally, from the soul or angelic plane, manifested primarily in the soul, come illumination, love, and peace.Put more simply, what constitutes the person, in sum, is light from the soul plane, knowledge from the astral plane, inherited qualities from his parents and ancestors, and various aspects of the mineral, vegetable, and animal kingdoms that are expressed through the physical body. Inayat Khan notes that it is the need of each person to "balance all these aspects knowing that he has been created neither to be as spiritual as an angel, nor to be as material as an animal."
It seems deep at first,but after a chapter or two....you get immersed in the journey of his words and thoughts.
Anyhow- I to am enjoying this thread. Thanks everyone.

[JL]

Very interesting that Tim brought up reading. I've always been (and remain) a voracious reader. In relating it to music, I think the important thing about reading is that it FORCES you to use your imagination, unlike some of the other story-telling media such as TV and movies. When you read words off a page, your mind has to take those words and conjure up images and ideas. The words only spark this process, then your own imagination takes over. You pick up some of what the writer had in mind, but you also form your own images. Music works in a similar fashion, and exercising your imagination is necessary for any creative process.

[pepper]

definately hear you on the benefits of reading.

stop me if i'm going off on one here, but one of the other things i find useful is writing down my dreams upon waking. it seems quite tricky to do at first, but the very process of writing it makes your memory of the dream seem that much more real, and in time it feels like second nature.

it really opens you up to whats going on in your subconscious, and is pretty interesting when you can read back over your dreams over the past six months or so - you can see a lot of patterns emerging, as well as how your dreams are affected by whats going on in your waking life.

i definately think this has opened up a lot of creativity in me, as sometimes you'll have a dream that has a really unique mood to it, then you can try and replicate that mood in whatever medium your creating in, be it music, art, writing or whatever else you've got.

also, a bit of an odd one this, but i find chess really good too. all the skills you need to be a decent player can be interchangeable with the skills required for music, art etc. foresight, creativity, memory, planning etc. i think all this gives a certain part of your brain a real workout. sometimes if i've got a bit of a clouded mind a game of chess really blows the cobwebs away.

[Cameron Wigmore]

I just reread the posts in this thread.

Great stuff everyone!

:salute:

[Pgraves]

Well, I'm not overwhelmed or depressed today, but it happens on occasion. Usually once a month,

Does this monthly timing correspond to a similar state that occurs in someone you spend a lot of time with?

Otherwise, very nice helpful responses from all the others.

[Pgraves]

.

[sonnymobleytrane]

Guys- I HEAR YA!!!! I hope this makes some kinda sense.
Innocence is a beautiful state,but to play this music, in today's enviroment takes all a person can muster.Today more than ever...we are in a wealth of saxual information.Everything is printed and available.All the tunes you need to know are somewhere within' a flip of a computer button.
Then there's the issue some of us face...like I do...of being your own booking agent and manager.It can be devistating,and reak havok on you and your personal life.And be-sing/overwealing.LOL !
To- BRING ME BACK TO A JAZZ REALITY,OR SAXOPHONE BASED REALITY..I ask myself this question.What
happened to MY childish delight in music? But it is still there, hidden, almost forgotten some daze , overcome with a thousand pressures and responsibilities. Many spiritual paths teach us that we must withdraw from the world in order to find ourselves anew, but few can afford do this.The plane from Philly to a beach in Jamica seems like a cool idea...but I need to make a living.haha-
Complexity theory gives us another way. The state of being overwealmed by details corresponds to a chaotic state, with too many connections active. To allow ourselves to re-create the imagination of youth,as when we first started to play our horns, we need to restrict the information we take in.Break it down...THINK SIMPLE.
Pick up your sax and....close your eyes and....WAIL.Let the horn moan, scream,cry,talk...let the passion out...also drain yourself of your issues today.Your holding one of the most powerful pills to your sanity ever developed-THE SAXOPHONE. No kidding...go in a corner...listen to yourself...forget what you need to know....just be GLAD you know what you do!!! Ya dig???!!!?? Let the horn go-even if you
really are not playing that long..let it wail...you'll feel it inside.
This information we want to absorb-
a new tune to study, a part to get for a band, going on the road, all these add to the combinations of ideas we have. The more we know, the more novelty we can generate, the closer then we can approach that ideal state of a perfect and exciting life that we surely all desire. Excitement in life is to be found !
Look to the MUSIC first...the rest will line up.
Also, I do a lot of reading...I invest in time by MYSELF. I let me focus re-charge.
Read auto-bios of great musicians, put some energy into yourself...read anything.Go for walks ( with NO cd player!! )...let your mind chill.
One of the hippest books I EVER read...is by Hazrat Inayat Khan..called "The Music Of Life". That book if I read one page..I am READY.It's that cool.
I laid it on Ernie Watts and he agrees to, it's a cool book.EVERYONE on this forum should read!!! There's another book- I read by accident...I found it in an airport book shop..It's called "You Can Be Happy No Matter What"...by R. Carlson.It's very basic,and east to understand.Plus a fun read.
- Trust me...doing what I do at times can be the top of the depression ladder! If I think about things like...the $$$ has not changed very much in the last half-decade,clubs have closed etc etc...I go into a DEEP FUNK. Not to mention
the stuff I'm trying to accomplish as a player/educator.
YOU ....must steer your own car, don't let depression do it,and keep overwealming issues in the back seat...in order.Use THEM as steps to help you. I keep a diary of STUFF I'm shedding and TRYING to shed.That helps a lot. FOCUS!!!
I hope this is some what of a help,it's info. that can be tapped into,and food for thought.
OH- one last thing...I'm not a follower of this man but he does say interesting things...check this out- "Man thrives, oddly enough, only in the presence of a challenging environment." — L. Ron Hubbard.
There are many ways to go- hope this helps a bit.



Tim You never GET Down in the Dumps! Say it Ain't So. You are the most positive, enthusiastic musician I have ever met!!!!

[amoram]

Guys- I HEAR YA!!!! I hope this makes some kinda sense.
Innocence is a beautiful state,but to play this music, in today's enviroment takes all a person can muster.Today more than ever...we are in a wealth of saxual information.Everything is printed and available.All the tunes you need to know are somewhere within' a flip of a computer button.
Then there's the issue some of us face...like I do...of being your own booking agent and manager.It can be devistating,and reak havok on you and your personal life.And be-sing/overwealing.LOL !
To- BRING ME BACK TO A JAZZ REALITY,OR SAXOPHONE BASED REALITY..I ask myself this question.What
happened to MY childish delight in music? But it is still there, hidden, almost forgotten some daze , overcome with a thousand pressures and responsibilities. Many spiritual paths teach us that we must withdraw from the world in order to find ourselves anew, but few can afford do this.The plane from Philly to a beach in Jamica seems like a cool idea...but I need to make a living.haha-
Complexity theory gives us another way. The state of being overwealmed by details corresponds to a chaotic state, with too many connections active. To allow ourselves to re-create the imagination of youth,as when we first started to play our horns, we need to restrict the information we take in.Break it down...THINK SIMPLE.
Pick up your sax and....close your eyes and....WAIL.Let the horn moan, scream,cry,talk...let the passion out...also drain yourself of your issues today.Your holding one of the most powerful pills to your sanity ever developed-THE SAXOPHONE. No kidding...go in a corner...listen to yourself...forget what you need to know....just be GLAD you know what you do!!! Ya dig???!!!?? Let the horn go-even if you
really are not playing that long..let it wail...you'll feel it inside.
This information we want to absorb-
a new tune to study, a part to get for a band, going on the road, all these add to the combinations of ideas we have. The more we know, the more novelty we can generate, the closer then we can approach that ideal state of a perfect and exciting life that we surely all desire. Excitement in life is to be found !
Look to the MUSIC first...the rest will line up.
Also, I do a lot of reading...I invest in time by MYSELF. I let me focus re-charge.
Read auto-bios of great musicians, put some energy into yourself...read anything.Go for walks ( with NO cd player!! )...let your mind chill.
One of the hippest books I EVER read...is by Hazrat Inayat Khan..called "The Music Of Life". That book if I read one page..I am READY.It's that cool.
I laid it on Ernie Watts and he agrees to, it's a cool book.EVERYONE on this forum should read!!! There's another book- I read by accident...I found it in an airport book shop..It's called "You Can Be Happy No Matter What"...by R. Carlson.It's very basic,and east to understand.Plus a fun read.
- Trust me...doing what I do at times can be the top of the depression ladder! If I think about things like...the $$$ has not changed very much in the last half-decade,clubs have closed etc etc...I go into a DEEP FUNK. Not to mention
the stuff I'm trying to accomplish as a player/educator.
YOU ....must steer your own car, don't let depression do it,and keep overwealming issues in the back seat...in order.Use THEM as steps to help you. I keep a diary of STUFF I'm shedding and TRYING to shed.That helps a lot. FOCUS!!!
I hope this is some what of a help,it's info. that can be tapped into,and food for thought.
OH- one last thing...I'm not a follower of this man but he does say interesting things...check this out- "Man thrives, oddly enough, only in the presence of a challenging environment." — L. Ron Hubbard.
There are many ways to go- hope this helps a bit.

Waw, this is very inspiring for me. It helped me a lot. Thinking this way and knowing more people are like this..
thanks!