"Coltrane" brand and Antigua Winds

[TheChristianSax]

I just saw this on Ebay. Does anyone know about this brand? "Coltrane is a new brand of VERY high quality and LOW cost instruments made in the Antigua Winds factory". I have heard so many great things about the Antigua Winds sopranos, so this sparked an interest.

http://cgi.msn.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16203&item=3737610 256&rd=1

[pknight]

Never heard of it, but it looks just like my Antigua, down to the style of engraving.

[Dave Dolson]

. . . and the case, exterior and interior. DAVE

[GSR]

I was curious about this myself. I emailed the seller and had asked if he could tell me if the the horn was exactly the same as the Antigua Winds soprano, the 590 in particular since it has the high G key. He told me that he did not have an Antigua 590 to do a comparison with, but does believe it is. I was under the impression that this particular horn was only made for Antigua Winds.
Gary

[Morry]

I know that some retailers, in an effort to compete with the Cannonball horns, had some saxes made under the name Bird. I think Nashville Used Instruments handles them. This may be a similar thing.

[DaveKessler]

Its definately interesting. I have e-mailed Antigua and hope to have a reply soon.

Initial impression is no. In fact, initial impression is Chinese.

Main reason is price. Also, the Antigua factory No Longer uses that case and also all of the Antigua sopranos now use only Metal Resonators, not plastic.

I have seen in my store almost the identical horn under a different name that was Chinese. Same engraving pattern on the Chinese one we saw as well.

Will post once I hear back from Antigua.

p.s. If it is indeed Taiwan, something is very wrong because the Antigua 590 costs signifigantly more then that.

[TheChristianSax]

Thanks for the info Dave. I will be looking forward to what info you gleen.

[DaveKessler]

No reply from Antigua yet but seeing how they are closed at the time of my e-mail, thats no surprise.

I do want to point out that there are some differences in the horns. Primarily, the engraving and the way they do the logo.

Here is the Coltrane:

http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/37/37344/coltrane_8.jpg

Here is the Antigua:

http://www.kesslermusic.com/eBay/586LQ/logo.jpg

Now granted, Antigua has since changed the logo on their horns but the style of how the logo is put on is quite different. The Coltrane looks to be machine engraved (back and forth style) whereas the Antigua is a laser etched (straight line).

Also note how the engraving is right above and below the logo. Completely different.

Granted these things may seem minor but the way they look to me, looks Very much Chinese. Also the lacquer color looks too light, another China traight.

Granted, some may think I am doing this as a business sales thing in saying it looks Chinese but thats not the case. If this were the same horn as the Antigua, I would not be buying the Antigua. I am not going to pay more just because. I would be on the phone with the guy to be finding out how to buy them in quantity.

Lastly, I find it odd that he claims it comes from the Antigua factory but he cant say how it compares: "He told me that he did not have an Antigua 590 to do a comparison with, but does believe it is". Belief and fact are 2 different things.

Best to my knowledge, Antigua is the Only company offering their models (based on previous conversations as well as the fact that the Taiwan factory owner has some ownership of Antigua in the USA, so why would he undercut himself?)

Again, will post more once I hear back from Antigua.

[DaveKessler]

Antigua's reply:

Dave,

Thank you for contacting us reference the "Coltrane" model soprano.

I have registered a complaint to eBay reference the item listed as we are unaware that any "Coltrane" model is manufactured in the Antigua Winds plant. We will follow up with eBay reference this.

Will let you know when eBay replies as this is of great concern to us and our dealers.

Randy Huey

[Kareeser]

That's quite interesting, Dave.

Perhaps a company decided to make a very good copy of the Antigua Winds sax, and tried to replicate the engraving as well.

[VegasChris]

Perhaps a company decided to make a very good copy of the Antigua Winds sax, and tried to replicate the engraving as well.
Wow, a copy of the Antigua, which is itself a computer copy of the Yanagisawa. Where will it end?

[Jerry K.]

I have registered a complaint to eBay reference the item listed as we are unaware that any "Coltrane" model is manufactured in the Antigua Winds plant.

Dave, your Antigua Winds contact didn't really come out and say that these horns were not made in the same factory. Instead he chose to say "... we are unaware that any Coltrane model is made in the Antigua Winds plant." Seems to leave a little wiggle room if you ask me.

Perhaps we will be seeing Kessler Yanagisawa copies in the near future that look a lot like the Antigua Winds horns? Time for another trip to Taiwan perhaps?

Thanks for your very honest and frank replys.

[DaveKessler]

You are correct that he didnt fully deny it, however, the cosmetic differences are enough to confirm to me that they are indeed not made in the same factory.

I e-mailed the seller from my personal account to see if he can back up his claims.

[pknight]

Jinyin (a Chinese company) makes/made a soprano that is/was also a copy of the Yani. I bought one very cheap from Jason DuMars a couple years ago. The construction was pretty shoddy, compared to the Antigua. If this is a Jinyin, their engraving has really improved, as the engraving on the one I had was the crudest example I have ever seen.

[Russ]

Dave,

You mention the engraving above and below the logo is completely different ?

My silver plated model also only carries the name 'Antigua' with a triangle above. And of course the YS serial. The engraving looks identicle to my untrained eyes though :?

[DaveKessler]

Heres where the differences are:

http://www.kesslermusic.com/newcoltrac.jpg

http://www.kesslermusic.com/newantigua.jpg

I have indicated the 2 areas on the Coltrane logo that are different and also indicated on the antigua where the same spots are on the horn where those bits of engraving do not appear.

[Russ]

Thanks for clearing that up Dave. You are of course, absolutely correct.

Regards.