Reed Burning????

[Roger Aldridge]

I've been having excellent results with Bootman's reed drilling method.

However, an idea about reed burning come into my mind today. I've found that burning reed tips gives better results than using a reed clipper. Therefore, I can't help but wonder how it might work to use a wood burning tool to burn a shallow hole in a reed as an alternative to using drilling equipment.

Has anyone already thought about this and tried it? If so, how did it work?

[Steve J.]

I have never tried a wood burning tool. I Dremel my boot hole at maximum speed suspecting this helps seal the pores. I have experimented with prolonged drilling - to the point of "burning" the hole. I assume this is happening for it discolors the hole brown and is quite warm afterwards. I noticed no difference in reed sound or playability.

I would suspect ..... the hole is a hole. I would think burning a hole would have equal results. Good thought Roger.

Darn Roger! Now you spring this idea.... after I bought the drill and press. I have to believe drilling saves time......... I have to justify this somehow in my head. Like - when you commit to a horn or set up then like something different.... I often think - no - couldn't be - Wow is this really true?

For now I'm committed to drilling..... I hope nobody feels your idea is an improvement - I don't use my dremel for much else.

Seriously .. nice idea. I'm curious also - but this is difficult to test out on one reed. The difference in reeds is often more of a sound and playability factor than the difference in holed or unholed.

Besides - I have never noticed that a burned reed tip is any different then a cleanly clipped reed. Reeds are so individual I could never tell with any certainty.... For me if I need to clip the reed it is well on the downside of its lifetime anyway.
Roger - what do you feel is the advantage in burning tips? I've done this with good results but can't hear or feel the difference between this and a proper clean even clip.

[Roger Aldridge]

Steve,

There's another thread under Reeds where folks are talking about burning the reed tip versus clipping. You'll get some good information if you check it out.

My personal experience is that when I clip the Alexander Classique reeds I use it seems to take the life out of them. Most often I end up throwing the reeds away that I clip. I've tried to adjust them. But, they still don't have the quality of sound that I've come to expect in a Classique. However, when I burn a very thin amount of the tip the reed then plays closely to as it did was when it was new.

There's an old tradition of using certain coins to do reed tip burning. But, I'm using the Runyon reed burner metal template in order to get a better shape for the tip. Using this method I've been able to extend the life of my best reeds. The Runyon template is $12. In the short time I've had it I've already gotten my money back with the good reeds that I've saved. :D

[pknight]

Steve J,

I am planning to go the Dremel route, as you have done. I plan to make a "jig" to hold the reeds for drilling, much like the one Bootman shows in his reed-drilling photos. Since you have the Dremel drill press attachment, can you tell me how, or if, you clamp a board to the base of the press? If this can be done quickly and easily, drilling a box of reeds should only take a couple minutes.

Thanks.

[Roger Aldridge]

Friends,

Here's the deal....

I had 3 newly broken in reeds that sounded borderline to me. So, I figured that this is my chance to experiment with them. I went to the local craft shop and found a reed burning kit for $9.99. (They had more expensive sets. But, I had no idea if this would work or not.) The kit came with a selection of tips in various shapes. One of them was dome-shaped and it looked like a good possibility. When I got home with the kit I got out a metal file and flattened the dome tip. Lo and behold, I ended up with a circular tip, close to a 1/4", and a flat end! :D

I played each reed again before trying out the reed burning tool. I got it's "before" sound in my mind. Then, I burned a shallow hole in the reed similar to Bootman's reed drilling method. The hole came out MUCH BETTER than when I used a hand crank drill. It was perfectly shaped, just the right depth, and the hole was sealed. Of course, the smell reminded me of a camp fire! I washed off the reed and gave it a try. It sounded better than before -- nice full sound, good response. It was a keeper! Feeling encouraged, I burned the other 2 reeds as I described above. These reeds also played better after burning them.

One thing I want to be clear about is that these 3 reeds don't sound quite as good as my best unaltered Classiques. Never the less, they sound pretty darn good. As it stands right now I'd feel okay using them on a gig.

I'm going to play on these reeds for a period of time to see how they hold up. I'll let you know how they do. Anyway, my initial impression is that using the reed burning tool saved 3 reeds that otherwise would have been tossed on the reject pile.

[Steve J.]

Pknight - I don't use a Jig with the dremmel - I simply don't find it necessary. The base plate has slots. Once you lock in a prefered depth, a box of reeds takes a few short minutes. I position the reed and hold the bark end with a finger in the slot to grip well to the base. If you don't pussy foot with the press action there is no slippage.

Roger - very cool. (or hot) ... $9.99? Wow. Congrats. I'm interested in if you feel there is still a shorter lifespan with the burned reeds. I suspect some sealing of the hole needs to occur for best results.

I also found drilling did nothing to improve or hinder the best playing reeds. I relate exactly (except don't prefer classiques) Drilling does free up the stuffy reeds. I simply drill them all when I open the box - only because I have noticed no downside and the drill is out and happening. You kind of get on a roll and look around for stuff to punch holes in. :)

[Paul S]

i would think a soldering iron with a flattened tip would do a nice job of burning a hole - just need to careful with the depth.

i will try it this weekend on some stuffy reeds.

[Vortex]

Hmm... now here's an interesting question. If there's so many people who like drilled/burned reeds, why don't some of these reed companies (Vandoran, Superial, Rico, LaVoz, etc) just sell PRE-DRILLED/BURNED reeds?

[Roger Aldridge]

Here's a follow up to my previous messages about reed burning....

After spending more time with the reeds I experimented with using the word burning tool I'm finding that I have mixed feelings about them. I've found that they hold up much better than the reeds I drilled with a hand crank drill. However, they don't hold up anywhere as well as my better unaltered Classiques. For me, there is NOTHING like a good Classique. Having said that, it appears that I can get at least some short term gain in altering the reeds in a box that I don't like as well as the others. This is better than simply tossing them aside. Never the less, a good unaltered Classique is definitely my reed of choice.

[Steve J.]

My experience tells me the best performance quality reeds are unaltered in sound & response with the boothole. I agree that the best reeds are the ones that play that way unaltered after a break in period. I do find that longevity and response are improved with a polishing. I do find there is no downside to drilling the best quality performance reed. I have noticed no decrease in lifespan of the holed reeds but this is a hard thing to really get a handle on since I rotate reeds. I seperate performance reeds from practice reeds and rotate each so I can not definitively say my drilled reeds last about so long and undrilled last this long.

Roger - Your thoughts regarding longevity raise a level of concern with me. Are you firmly convinced its the drilling that effects lifespan? I don't see the logic in this - but of course I can only conjecture why the drilling or burning works at all. I guess the question of what cause reeds to stop vibrating I don't know the answer to. Perhaps we should start a new topic. Roger-if you have any thoughts or more detailed evidence that the boothole reduces life and why please post. As for now I have trouble agreeing with this only based on my own experience.

I would also love to hear more thoughts regarding this from drillers who have been at it longer than Roger and I.

The only test I can think of is to alternate playing the snot out of two performance quality reeds one holed and one not and measure lifespan. Then you would have to repeat many times in order to insure there is a definite pattern. Problem of course - I find performance quality reeds aren't something I want to be sacrificing........... even for the good of my friends in the saxophone community. Any thoughts on another way to get a better handle on drillings effect on reed lifespan?

[Roger Aldridge]

Steve,

Reed drilling or burning is a mysterious thing. Bootman tells us that he cannot explain why it works. I haven't read any messages from anyone on the Forum so far to help shed much light on this. Thus, I don't have any way to explain why I'm having these results versus you or anyone else.

The only thing that makes sense to me is to simply go with whatever works best for us. At least in my experience, there has been a certain amount of trial & error in selecting the particular mouthpiece, reed, ligature, horn, etc that really does it for me. I'm not able to explain why I prefer the set up I've settled on. I simply go by the results -- the sound coming out of my horn.

[Cameron Wigmore]

Perhaps reed drilling works by removing material from the back of the vamp, allowing more of the reed to vibrate freely. On mouthpieces with a long facing one needs a type of reed that comliments this. Some reeds are thicker at the tip, some are thicker through the heart, and some have less material all the way through. Drilling a reed would remove a large quantity of reed right in the area that affect the lowest notes, (Db, C, B, Bb).

[Mike Ruhl]

Perhaps reed drilling works by removing material from the back of the vamp, allowing more of the reed to vibrate freely. On mouthpieces with a long facing one needs a type of reed that comliments this. Some reeds are thicker at the tip, some are thicker through the heart, and some have less material all the way through. Drilling a reed would remove a large quantity of reed right in the area that affect the lowest notes, (Db, C, B, Bb).
Precisely my impression of why drilling works! Well said.

[Steve J.]

I guess it can be extrapolated that increased reed vibration increases stress on the remaining fewer fibres resulting in the reed not lasting as long. I am still not convinced lifespan is decreased because of the boothole. Why then do the exceptional reeds not have a noticeably lower lifespan than an average reed? Or do they? :? I guess it comes down to quality over quantity. I think I'll change my habit of drilling all untried new reeds. I'll probably not drill the exceptional ones that play quite well out of the box just in case they'll last longer.
Wow this forum is making me seemingly over cautious. I guess better safe then sorry.