New embouchure....squealing

[scottyhoop]

I'm having some probblems with squealing after changing around my embouchure and switching reeds. I was at lesson with Eric Marienthal this past weekend, and he was trying to fatten up my sound. I was using a hard bari star reed on a dukoff 8 on alto. We worked on opening up the throat, thinning the lower lip(possibly rolling lower lip out a bit), etc....One thing we discussed at length is reed strength. He believes that the reed I was using was way too hard for the mouthpiece. In his words I am working too hard. So I dropped down to blue vandoren 2.5 which is what he plays. I think my sound and control are much better now, but I am squealing like crazy! I like the changes he made alot, but I can't get the squealing out of there. I tried altering reeds, sanding in different areas, moving the reed around on the mouthpiece, moving the lig...still no luck. Any suggestions are welcome...I will be seeing Eric soon, and I would like to have this nailed down before then. Thanks!!
Scott

[SaxColuss]

Oh man! Eric Marienthal! great to noe u r studying with him. i'm a not a guy that he noes of course but can u pls jez send my regards to him. a true genious he is.... take care,man...Sax On!

[MitchP]

Adjusting from a hard plastic reed/dukoff combination to a softer cane reed is pretty dramatic. It sounds like your embouchure is still thinking of all the work it had to do. Try playing the mouthpiece alone first and hang in there, you'll get used to it.

[Morry]

Man, so what do lessons with EM cost?

[Tears June]

scottyhoop

I think many people here are interesed to know how you can get lesson from Eric Marienthal. He is a famous top artist, a sax star! How you can get lesson from him? How much he charge you an hour? What other things you learn from him?

:cry:

[ABrit]

OK here we go :idea: ......... this will probably sound like "sacrilege" to some and "How to suck eggs to others". I find that my main reason for squealing is the reed starting to bow out to the edges "when viewing from the front edge".......... Like an old bit of dried toast.

My way to remedy this is to take the reed between the index finger and thumb of both hands and apply gentle pressure to the centre of the reed with the thumbs whilst pulling down on the outer edges :shock: , don't apply the pressure to near the front of the reed, more to the area of where the ligature would be located, don't apply too much pressure and only do this when the reed is wet or you could end up with 2 half reeds :cry: . Might not sort out your problem scottyhoop, but it does it for me sometimes!

Good Luck.

[scottyhoop]

The squealing is getting better but I still haven't gotten rid of it. I think what I have found is that the bari reed let me get away with some bad habits that a vandoren blue won't let me. I'm starting to be able to feel when its going to happen, but I must admit that I was a bit humbled by the whole experience. After going to college, playing lots of gigs, etc...I thought I would be able to adapt pretty quickly to the changes Eric and I made to my embouchure. I was wrong!! I'm moving in the right direction tho, so I do see some light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks to all of you that posted helpful tips on this problem. Be well!!!
Scott

[DaveR]

I would say that a blue vandoren + Dukoff D chamber is almost garuanteed to squeal! The blue vandoren's tip is designed for classical response and is much thinner than reeds like Javas, V16s, La Voz or Rico............
BUT if you really feel you want to go this way, you should have your mouthpiece refaced by a really good tech so that the rails are perfectly even. If the rails are even slightly off, the vandoren classic will tend to squeal like a pig due to the unstable vibrations and combination of the high baffle and ultra thin reed tip. As an experiment, try a V16 or maybe a Java instead, I bet you find this helps the problem without losing too much brightness!

And please don't think I'm dissing EM, he's a fantastic player; his piece obviously works with these reeds - doesn't he play a Beechler on Alto and a Larsen on Tenor?
And he's right about using softer reeds.
Best of luck

[Paul Coats]

I agree, I have seen many problems with Dukoff/Vandoren Blue Box reeds... and the squeeling problem went away rather easily with a simple reed change.

[Stencilman]

I've always played Plasticovers but my local stores now only carry Vandoren Blue Box and Hemke :-( Having never tried them on soprano, I bought the last two boxes of Vandoren soprano reeds the store had. Squeeled like mad on my Dukoff D9.

I ended up using a Dremel tool to trim back the tip (who did I loan my reed clippers to?) If they were too hard after trimming, I sanded them back away from the tip. Out of the two boxes, I was able to come away with about 8 playable reeds.

Fibracells are the only reeds I play now on SATB.

[scottyhoop]

Well, i tried switching to Javas on tenor, haven't gotten to alto yet, and it helped with the squealing quite a bit, but its not the sound i'm looking for. A little bit fuzzier on the Javas. I have a lesson with Eric this weekend, so I'll let all of you know what he recommends, but I'm thinking I may have to switch moutpieces to get the right combination for me. I love the sound on the dukoff, but it's just not working for me right now. Would like to try some Beechlers I think. Most of the people I've heard on them I've really liked. Thanks again for all of your posts. Always nice to get some outside views! Be well!
Scott

[MojoBari]

I have a pretty good track record in fixing mouthpieces so they do not chirp. I know my way around a Dukoff too. I do not need more work, but I can help you if you really want to make the Dukoff work.

[Balladeer]

scottyhoop:
I'm using a Beechler Bellite 7 on alto. I like it much better than a Dukoff, but I, too, have some squeals and chirps, especially when I really pumping power through the horn. I'm still using the stock lig with the Bellite. Would you tell us, please, what lig does Eric Marienthal use with his Beechler and about how much mouthpiece does he take in his mouth.

Thanks.

[scottyhoop]

I have already talked to Eric about ligatures...He uses an Oleg ligature. You can find them on wwbw.com or just do a search for them. I'll check on the mouthpiece placement thing for you. Be well....
Scott

[JL]

scottyhoop, before spending money on a new mpc, I strongly suggest you try a V-16 reed (actually get a few to try) on your tenor. That might do the trick.

[scottyhoop]

Well, met with EM and we decided a dukoff is not for me. Picked up a beechler bellite 7 and I absolutely love it. Cleaned up a lot of things instantly, but still lots of work to do on it. Def. was the right thing to do. The Dukoff just wasn't what I was looking for at all.
Thanks for all of your help everyone!!!
Scott