OBOE! [Archive] - Sax on the Web Forum

frankm

03-09-2003, 05:04 PM

I recently played a musical, and as in almost every musical I've ever been in before, we played the oboe/english horn parts on clarinet ( the book had the parts written for both)....anyway, one of the sax players decided to bring his oboe and have a go at it. Now, he was not what I would call a great oboe player, but the effect on the ensemble sound of the section was incredible....So THATS why the part was written for oboe!!!...so anyway, I got the oboe bug. I borrowed one from the school I teach at and a reed from a friend....after a weekend of fooling around I CANNOT EVEN GET IT TO SQUEEK!!! Now I'm determined to make some noise...I play clarinet , sax and flute....any pointers to start with? Can you recommend a book to help me out? Are private lessons the only way?

Alan G

03-10-2003, 07:43 PM

Gee - ya should be able to get that wonderful strangled duck sound!

Lets start with the reed. You should be able to get noise without it in the instrument. Soak the thing for a few minutes - I usually dip it in water, and let it sit. After ya suck the water out, look at the end of the reed. it should make an oval shape.

Place the reed on your lower lip, which is rolled over your lower teeth (duh - try rolling yer lower lip over yer upper teeth!). The tip of the reed is just inside yer mouth-barely. Now, put yer upper lip (rolled over your upper teeth) on top of the reed. Light pressure only.

Now blow through the reed. You need to push the air from your guts (the oft debated "diaphragm" support). Think of blowing up an air mattress. The reed should make a high pitch squaaaaank sound. If this works, you're ready to try it in the oboe.

It takes a lot of breath support to play. With oboe - you don't run out of air so much as you run out of oxygen (ya gotta let it out).

The fingering for oboe is almost the same (only different!) as sax. try starting with a G. If you could get the reed to speak - but it doesn't work in the instrument - then there's a problem with the oboe. They are very fussy - if there's a leak or the key's are out of adjustment - you may not get a sound. This in fact may be the case if you're trying to play on a school instrument.

Oh yeah - find a teacher! Part of the oboe thing is the reeds. Once you have a playble instrument - you will need playable reeds. A teacher will make sure that the horn is ok - and get ya going on the reed end. As a sax player, you know how much discussion/anguish there is about mouthpieces. Well...with oboe, dealing with reeds is like making your own mouthpiece: Imagine - to play sax ya gotta CARVE A MOUTHPIECE outta wood! Then after ya play it for a while - ya gots ta make another one!

beth

03-10-2003, 09:58 PM

make sure your reed isn't too hard and/or isn't too closed up. make sure you aren't biting too much or taking in too much reed. push down slighty into your lower lip, your lip is the cusion to support the sound.
and, yeah, get a teacher....otherwise you'll form so many bad habits it'll blow your mind....
i speak from the experience.

frankm

03-11-2003, 02:10 AM

Thanks for the tips....I'll keep you posted

frankm

03-21-2003, 06:05 PM

I've had an oboe for a couple of weeks and things are improving...at least now I can squeak! Actually got some tips from an oboist buddy and am having some success. Am I correct in assuming oboe's are extremely touchy when it comes to adjustments....pad seating, that sort of thing?...awful lot of little adjustment screws all over the place!

Alan G

03-21-2003, 06:56 PM

Congrats Frankm on the progress.

Yep - oboes is fussy. :D

Some keys barely move when actuated (open/close).

If you get a decent horn - you will need to find a good technician in your area to periodically adjust it. I recently took mine in... he actually re-"under-cut" some of the tone holes....yes - the tone holes are slightly under cut from the inside - and that affects the tuning! I forget the website - but I read that at the Loree factory - part of the final manufacturing stages involve adjusting the tone holes.

Sheesh.

BTW - I use St. Louis Brass and Woodwinds. They take care of symphony musicians instruments. As an indication of how touchy an oboe is; Marv told me that visiting Oboeists (SLSO is auditioning for 1st Oboe) will have him adjust their instruments on Friday - before the concerts that night and the rest of the weekend.

hmmm - lets see, what to do tonite after the kids go to bed? I know - Carve Some Reeds!!!

Gordon (NZ)

03-21-2003, 09:25 PM

Compared with a sax, an oboe NEEDS adjusting screws because the keys are so strong that the linkage adjustment cannot be achieved by bending, as on the sax.

Oboes, once they are adjusted correctly, give a lot less trouble than oher woodwinds, because:

1. For most keys,the tone hole diameter is small compared with the distance from the hinge to the centre of the key cup.
2. Where it matters for linkages, the mechanism is very rigid.
3. The multitude of adjusting screws make linkage adjustment very quick and easy for a tech who knows what he is doing.

Typical manufacturing problems though, mainly in cheap models:

- Natural cork under regulating screws. A FAR tougher material is required. I use 'microfiber" which is an extremely tough synthetic leather. This is common in pro models!
- Poor adhesive used, such that these 'corks' fall off.
- Adjusting screws whose travel is not sufficient to do any adjusting.
- Low quality, thick &/or squishy pads.
- Sloppy pivots.
- Linkages which are so pooly aligned that they barely connect.
- Nylon/teflon tipped adjusting screws, the tip material easily bends over, compressing, or otherwise altering its shape.

frankm

03-21-2003, 10:05 PM

Gordon, can I expect to find any of the finer points you mention in a "student" oboe? ..(.ie: One I can afford!)

Gordon (NZ)

03-22-2003, 03:16 AM

I've seen a student Selmer model that impressed me. That is the only one of many models I have seen. I have not seen any student Yamaha model, and at any rate, a Yamaha set up in USA is likely to have many more problems than one set up in Japan, where standards seem to be far higher.

puresaxman

04-01-2003, 05:22 AM

frankm-
you might want to start with fibercane reeds for the oboe. They are much easier to play than the handcrafted wooden reeds that most players use. Also, if your a saxplayer the more time you spend on a soprano will make you a better oboe player. The fingering isalmost identical to flute. Take your time oboe olaying is a very tedious task. You won't sound anywhere near pleasant in the beginning. But, after a while to beautiful sound will start creeping through. Oboe's are one of the most beautiful sounding instruments if they are played well. Best of luck to you....

frankm

04-02-2003, 04:34 PM

Is fibercane a generic term or a brand? I'm looking through a catalog and see fibercane, fiberreed, fibracell.....is there a specific brand you'd recommend? How about size/thickness?

Gordon (NZ)

04-02-2003, 09:52 PM

Frankm, there is now a student model Yamaha around. If it is made in Japan, not USA, it is almsot certainly well made.

puresaxman

04-04-2003, 04:45 AM

frankm- you should be able to find just fibercane reeds. They are sold in individual little plastic cases. You should start with a soft or medium soft reed. Once you develope your chops on oboe possible move up to harder strength reeds. At that time you might want to consider buying the wooden reeds that are available. It will take awile to develope your chops unfortuanetly double reeds are the hardest of all woodwinds to play. Don't get discouraged because you will certainly have to invest some time into it. But after awhile when you don't sound like a wounded duck anymore you will certainly be amazed how beautiful an oboe can really be.. :wink:

Serenade

04-21-2003, 06:21 PM

DO NOT USE FIBERCANE REEDS!!!!

At least do not play on them when you get enough experience. They are VERY expensive and wood gives a better tone quality. A local orchestra will make you a wood one for around 13 dollars. You need strong mouth muscles to break them in though.

Mike Ruhl

06-18-2003, 08:17 PM

This is almost enough to cause me to take up oboe:

http://www.marigaux.com/english/instruments/zoom/pic/zoom_2001_altuglass.jpg

Alan G

06-18-2003, 11:01 PM

oh, wow man.

Too awesome for words.

Wonder how much $$$?

Gee - I play an old King Marigaux oboe....wonder if they take trades

Razzy

06-19-2003, 01:15 AM

Whoa... That is perhaps the most awesome thing I've ever laid eyes upon 8)

beth

06-19-2003, 03:39 AM

oh...my...

i wonder how it sounds compared to wood.
hell, forget that loree i hope to have in the next year or two...lol...

-drool-

Gordon (NZ)

06-19-2003, 02:03 PM

I wonder what it looks like when crud, grime, lint, & calcium deposits build up in the tone holes, if not the bore as well. Yuk! Better that this stuff is not seen.

Mike Ruhl

06-19-2003, 02:03 PM

Mike Ruhl

06-19-2003, 02:04 PM

I wonder what it looks like when crud, grime, lint, & calcium deposits build up in the tone holes, if not the bore as well. Yuk! Better that this stuff is not seen.
Even better still if it is kept from building up.

Gordon (NZ)

06-19-2003, 02:05 PM

I wonder what it looks like when crud, grime, lint, & calcium deposits build up in the tone holes, if not the bore as well. Yuk! Better that this stuff is not seen.
....And grime & oil collects on the body around the mechanism.

Hmmm. Perhaps it is made for display only.

Mike Ruhl

06-19-2003, 02:07 PM

Granted, it would be a challenge to keep it clean, but it's not that hard.

michaelbaird

08-31-2003, 04:45 AM

If it is glass run it in the dishwasher :P

Scottias4

09-21-2003, 06:00 AM

Whoa... That is perhaps the most awesome thing I've ever laid eyes upon 8)

ditto.

I play on a buffet. I dont know that much about oboe brands. which ones would you guys say are among the best?

michaelbaird

09-21-2003, 07:55 AM

Loree', Fox, Laubin, Marigaux, Gordet. Loree' is the Selmer of the oboe world, Cabart is Loree's intermediate brand.

Gordon (NZ)

09-22-2003, 03:30 AM

Yamaha's seems quite respectable too.

michaelbaird

09-22-2003, 03:44 AM

I would keep the Buffet for sure as a back up instrument but the majority of the orchestral players play on Loree's. Selmer, Buffet, Yamaha make good instruments, but Loree' is considered the standard, especially the model with the 3rd octave key.

Jack W.

09-22-2003, 05:32 AM

There are some nice pics on that Marigaux page, not only of the glass oboe (or whatever it is). I had always wondered if there were a sopranino oboe, and the answer (astonishingly and horrifyingly enough) is yes -- it is called a musette and is pitched in D, but seems to have most of the same keywork as the standard oboe in C. Also check out the bass oboe, what a weird looking horn. :o

I have an oboe reed but no oboe. I've tried to avoid thinking about learning this horn for a long time. But that sound, that sound ... even though it will probably take me years to get it.... And the other problem is that as soon as I buy an oboe, I know I'll want an English horn too, and that will cost me at least a kidney.... :(

Mike Ruhl

09-22-2003, 02:10 PM

Dont forget the Heckelphon!
http://www.heckel.de/en/prod-heckelphon.htm

michaelbaird

09-22-2003, 05:14 PM

The oboe has the most individual sound. When you get a good reed and your tone is where you want it, in the right hall with the right acoustics, you can have a tone not of this earth. I played it seriously to the exclusion of all other instruments for about 6yrs. I did play my tenor some. The best oboist is Richard Woodhams in Philadelphia. Peter Bowman who played in St Louis can pick out walls in his house and richochet his tone off of them. Wild! I would play it more now but the reeds are such a pain. You can spend an hour making a reed, adjusting it and come up with nothing. The plastic reeds really dont work. Too ducky. The fingerings are easy, very close to saxophone and flute. Playing it is a great adventure if you have the patience. The air column has to remain constant with more intensity, speed and focus for the upper registers or the notes won't be in tune. Playing the oboe has probably helped me develop my altissimo on the saxophone. I can hit C5 when I open my throat right. As far as english horns go, a good one will cost at least 3000.00 (used), and you can't scrimp on price either because the instrument by design is more stuffy in the upper register.

OnyxSax

12-14-2004, 05:34 AM

I just purchased an Oboe. I'm waiting for it to arrive. I figured since I already play the other members of the woodwind family: flute, clarinet and sax, I wanted get a double-reed instrument to complete my "family".

How does the oboe compare to the sax/flute/clarinet fingering-wise?

Gordon (NZ)

12-14-2004, 02:02 PM

Delicate keys. Some clumsy fingering changes, but all the extra keys on the fancy models overcome that somewhat, once you have a license to drive them.

Halcyon440

01-17-2005, 09:46 PM

Hey! I am new to the forums.

I played alto and tenor sax from 1996 - 2000. And then didn't play much for the last 4 years. (Been playing electric bass) Though I AM heading off to a rehearsal tonight (Latin music) on my tenor. Oh dear let's see what happens.

My first love is Classical music and I decided that I may as well go for it even if I'm a little "old" to start a new instrument. I live in the NYC metro area so I'm sure that someday someone will want me for their amateur orchestra.

After a month of going through a crazy oboe vs. clarinet debate in my head I finally decided to stick to oboe. And I couldn't be happier. I'm in love with it and the English horn!

I've been playing it for a month now and though my sound can still be categorized as ducky, I've definitely improved a lot from that first day where I could only sound three very out of tune notes. My husband says it's starting to sound like an instrument instead of a deflating balloon. :oops: And my scales are close to being in tune now! Weee!!

My teacher thinks I'll pick up quickly, so let's see what happens. I'm playing on a rented Selmer which I had to send to the shop today because the lowest notes aren't responding well and there is something up with my B flat. I miss it already. :( My teacher wants me to buy a Loree and skip getting an intermediate model. Isn't that kind of crazy? I mean, it's like having a baby drive a car or something. But I guess I see what he means that if I really mean to play this seriously (which I do) I may as well invest in the good instrument now since I'll have to do it anyway later on. Also learning on the good horn will probably save me some frustration and I can focus on learning how to make reeds instead of trying to trick certain notes out of the instrument. What do you all think?

Good luck to all you fellow oboists!

01-17-2005, 09:56 PM

The thing is that a better instrument will not be harder to play, but should rather be easier to play.

Michael Ward

01-17-2005, 11:54 PM

How do you oboe players consider Howarth oboes particularly the professional models ? They are used by many players here in the UK.

michaelbaird

01-18-2005, 02:33 PM

Halcyon 440
Buy the Loree', I've owned one since 1978, and it still sounds and plays well. I don't play it much now, but I still practice a few times a week. You must learn to make your own reeds. You will not get to where you want to be, if you don't. Making your own reeds gives you the license to drive one. I's a great ride too! Playing the oboe is more about how you put the air thru it, and that is true with all woodwinds.

I started on tenor when I was 12 and started playing the oboe when I was 14-15. I picked it up fast and was in TN all state band & orchestra my junior and senior year, and all state band on tenor. I was very superstitious about my tone and playing the sax before playing the oboe etc... Screw all of that. Play it because you love it, learn to make your own reeds and get the Loree'. They are considered the best and you won't go wrong.

There are other good brands of oboes. Check out McFarlands Oboe shop in Atlanta for prices on good used ones. As far as Howarth oboes and english horns go, everything I've ever heard about them has been very good. I've never played one. http://www.mcfarlanddoublereed.com/usedinst.htm

beth

01-18-2005, 05:23 PM

i second just going all out and getting a Loree. and learning to make your own reeds. Have you teacher work with you and show you tying and scraping techniques, learn the measurements, etc. learn to tie blanks first - bring them to your lesson have your teacher check them out - then begin scraping and you'll become more comfortable over time.
back to an instrument...
Lorees are the most commonly used and are pretty much the standard in the US (though not at all true for the rest of the world). i believe like 80 or 90% of pro oboists in the US play on Loree. And the standard instrument is the AK bore (american bore) with the 3rd octave key. getting a professional instrument will really improve the ease of playing as well as intonation and other issues. I played on an intermediate instrument for two years in college - and i quickly outgrew it. i outgrew it probably within the first month of college...but i didnt have the money to get a pro oboe. now im playing on a loree and it has made such an incredible difference. skip the intermediate horn. get something that you can play on for years and years and wont hold you back. an intermediate horn will cost you $2000-$3000...plus an eventual upgrade. a new loree will cost you about $5,600 - but you cant get any better.

if your seriously interested in getting a new instrument, check out Nora Post (you said you were in the NY metro area). she's up in Kingston, NY...and right off the thruway, very easy to get to. she usually has many Lorees in stock for you to try out. plus, if you purchase from her, you get warranty service from her, without having to send the oboe to france, check-ups, and a great repair tech (she only repairs oboes purchased from her now because she had such high demand).

Halcyon440

01-18-2005, 08:59 PM

Thank you very much for your advice. It all makes a lot of sense.

I will continue playing on this rental in order to save up for my own Loree! :D

michaelbaird

01-19-2005, 03:18 PM

This is a bit off the subject, but with regards to reedmaking. I still measure and I use 47mm tubes only, to tie on a blank I measure 27mm from the fold, and the first scrape for the tip I use 20mm from the string. Bobby Taylor principle with the Nashville Symphony taught me how. I would spend alot of time making reeds and listening to old Cleveland and Philadelphia Orchestra recordings,... very calming.

Tim Price

01-20-2005, 01:05 AM

Some ideas here- HTH.

Keep you eyes on-GORDET oboes. Not the oboe you see everywhere but GORDET oboes are dark and full. Joe Viola played GORDET and
so did Harold Gomberg.

Harold Gomberg, the principal oboist of the New York Philharmonic from 1943 to 1977.
Harold Gomberg was the finest exponent of the Tabuteau school of playing oboe.
There's Cd..you might like.-Milton Katims & Collegues: Three Unusual Trios ..it contains Gomberg with playing.. Rhapsodies (2) for oboe, viola & piano-Composed by Charles Martin Loeffler with Dimitri Mitropoulos, Harold Gomberg, Milton Katims. Very important oboe playing. ( imho )
Forrests Music at times sells Gomberg Cds too.... (#CD048) $20.00. JS Bach; Concerto for Oboe, Violin & Strings. Harold Gomberg, oboe, performs with members of NY Phil. Cond. by Leonard Bernstein. Also: conc. ... http://www.forrestsmusic.com/recordin2a.htm

Brian Charles double reeds...will make a Gomberg style reed. Its a tad longer and the heart is different. 1-800-reed-tip. Brian studied with Gomberg.
Just some oboe thoughts. Gordet and...listen to Gomberg..you'll love it.

JMac

01-20-2005, 04:54 PM

For anyone interested - KesslerMusic is auctioning some oboes - including a Loree ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16227&item=3776158 086&rd=1) and a Gordet ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16227&item=3776158 119&rd=1 ). I have purchased saxophones and accessories from Dave (and Chuck) and can say nothing but great things about them (not a paid endorsement).

I wish I had the time (and talent) to put into learning to play double reeds - but I'm still pretty far down on the saxophone learning curve. Maybe one day....

Tim - you (and your passion for music and sharing) never cease to amaze me.

Yvette

11-05-2006, 02:07 AM

It's probably a lot brighter-sounding than wood. Which, depending on the venue, can be a good thing. Those who are interested, I found that out at the Marigaux website http://www.marigaux.com/index_en.html

I have not yet been able to find a dealer who lists the 2001 Altuglass model, at least not on the web.

you can buy them from here

http://www.oboeshop.co.uk/Instruments/Marigaux.htm

it's in pounds because that's in the UK of course...

jaysne

11-10-2006, 02:07 AM

Are private lessons the only way?

Well, they're not the only way, but if you want to learn how to play the oboe at all, you'll need to have a real oboist as your teacher. So many people think that just because they know how to play one instrument, they can figure out anything else. Single-reed players especially often think it's no big deal to switch to double reeds. Well, double reeds are a completely different universe.

The truth is that every instrument has its own personality, its own peculiarities, its own strengths and its own drawbacks. The only way to find out these things is to get someone who knows about them first hand. Oboe has a completely different style of embochure, tongueing, and breathing from sax. And that's just for starters.

Don't find a sax player who doubles on oboe--get a real oboe player. In the two months I took oboe lessons last summer, I came up with a list of 24 tips to help me play correctly that I would have never figured out myself.

Having a teacher makes all the difference between being an oboe player versus being an oboe holder.