How much does your Tenor weigh?

[hornimus]

May be useful data for some folks, in more than one way. I weighed mine with neck attached (no mpc), on a bathroom digital scale (metric). Pound values are converted from kg, nothing here is extremely precise.

Martin-made Olds Ambassador: 6.6 lb (3 kg)
Buescher Aristocrat, 156 model: 6.6 lb (3 kg)
Yani T-902: 7.0 lb (3.2 kg)
Doefler & Jorga "Roxy" : 7.0 lb (3.2 kg)
Dolnet Belair: 7.5 lb (3.4 kg)

Don't know why, but the Aristo and the Roxy feel heavier than they are. The Dolnet is just plain heavy to me, and the Ambassador is quite light despite its proportions.

I'd like to know how much some of the pro (vintage and modern) horns weigh, but have none in my closet.

[Emiel]

Hahaha, that's pretty funny, but I'm sorry! I do have a Mark VI and a Keilwerth SX90R at my house right now, but no scale. Still, I remember another Mark VI I had (unlackered) and it was also about 3 kg.

[hornimus]

I hope somebody will weigh their Mark VI, Olds Super, The Martin, Zephyr, Super 20, Top Hat & Cane, Chu, Yamaha Z, B&S, Codera .... etc etc etc.

My assumption is that--as a general rule-- the heavier horns use a thicker gauge of body/bell brass tubing. Does it matter? Maybe, but I dunno. So far, the Dolnet is at the top. What about Buffet Super Dyna-actions, Mark VIIs, Ref 54s, Couesnons, Pierrets ..... ?

[Bootman]

Usually the heavier horns are the modern horns. The reason they are heavier is not extra thickness of brass but rather all the extr keywork, most of which is not needed. It is the same with altos and baritones too.

[sax_appeal]

Hmmm, I was always told 'the heavier the sax, the better it is.' Thats why tenors aren't as good as baritones

[Emiel]

I', sorry sax-appeal, but that's just BS! You can replace the keywork with concrete keywork and I'm sure the horn will be heavier, but it won't sound better. The quality of the sound is mostly in the tube. It's true that some horn's are a bit heavier, like the Keilwerth, but that's because the bell and the ''curve'' are bigger (more metal, more weight)

[Dave dix]

Baritones aren't better then tenors cos they are heavier each type is used for their own purpose.
Modern horns seem thinner due to better machinery to save metal(thinner topier sound then vintage)but are as heavy or heavier due to more seams and bracing to stop warp and bending,here is a list of just my tenors weights with neck(+ or - a couple of ounces due to balancing on my small scales)
1955 The martin 7lb 4oz
1928 buescher true tone 7lb 9oz
1977 selmer mk7 7lb 9oz
1930 martin typewriter(master) 7lb 4oz
1949 conn 10m 7lb 3oz
Its funny that the selmer and buescher are the same weight with the big bell 7 and small bell t/t, buescher is thicker metal but the 7 is braced more,buescher is dark and focussed and selmer brighter and toppier
The conn is the lightest but has a bigger all-round sound.
Dave

[hornimus]

You guys are right, my assumptions were too simplistic, but this information is interesting to me anyway. It might directly reflect body brass gauge to some extent as long as you already know about the keywork/ribbing etc. of the horns involved. And of course, it is unadulterated info for anyone who prefers a lighter/heavier horn hanging off their neck.

Dave, thanks for posting those weights. I was sticking to decimal expression, but figured someone would bring in ounces! This thread may not last very long, but if more people post the weights of their horns, I'll try to convert everything into one list--eventually.

Interesting to see that your The Martin is only median weight; I'd've thought with those thick soldered toneholes, it would be at the top of the heap.

[Captain Beeflat]

Hmmm, always wondered why my neck hurts. My Rampone & Cazzani R1 weighs in at 8lb 6oz (3.8 kg.) I am prepared, however. to put up with this as the sound is directly proprtional! :lol:

[Captain Beeflat]

Forgot to mention that the horn is unbraced, otherwise it's anyone's guess what it would weigh :oops:

[hornimus]

Forgot to mention that the horn is unbraced, otherwise it's anyone's guess what it would weigh :oops:

Do you mean it has had 'original equipment' removed?

[Captain Beeflat]

Windmill. No, nothing has been added or removed. "Bracing" is a method whereby much of the keywork can be sub-assembled on plates which are then soldered to the body of the horn.
The R&C is handmade from scratch and the posts are individually soldered on where required-as indeed are most vintage horns. This eliminates the need for plates, &, consequently,the horn must be lighter than the more usual plated modern horn.
I cannot quite understand Bootman's statement claiming that modern horns have more keywork, as my vintage Buescher & Kings have at least two more keys, plus attendant linkage, with their trill keys.
As an appropriate point with reference to bracing plates I would have thought that the plates would act as dampers to the natural frequencies of the horn with a less resonant horn as a result. Maybe this could be a factor with respect to the more beefy sound of a vintage (& modern, unbraced) horn. Any ideas anyone?

[hornimus]

CB, I understand you now. I usually refer to that kind of post bracing as "ribbed construction" or "ribbing."

Come to think of it, per the 'amount' of keywork on modern horns, I have a few here and they are typically more 'streamlined' than their vintage counterparts. The old Conns have a real mess of keywork attached. Still, my Yani doesn't have anything unusual, and its tubing seems thinner than say, the Keilwerth or Dolnet I own, but it weighs in the median range nonetheless. Maybe the bronze tubing makes it heavier?

Per bracing/ribbing and the resonance-damping issue, some will argue that ribbing makes for a 'stiffer' construction that contributes to resonance. Personally I suspect it's insignificant either way, compared to other factors.

[Captain Beeflat]

Wind-mill. You are absolutely correct, I used the word "bracing " when I meant "ribbing". I have no excuse apart from brain fade on my part :oops:
With regard to the ribbing interfering with the natural resonance of the horn I would site a bell or a wine glass- strike them & they will ring out; put a finger on either & strike them & the result will be dulled. I maintain therefore that the ribbing will act similarly; ie. as a sound damper.The "stiffness" is less important than the consistency of the wall thickness.
Surely it follows that, to a large degree, the fulsome sound of the Vintage Saxophone is due, in no small measure, to the fact that they are not of ribbed construction. This could also, in concert with the huge bore and physical weight, account for the huge & vintage sound of the Rampone & Cazzani R1.
If this hypothesis is considered naive, then I feel sure that some Phd. of Acoustic Science will let me know!
Apologies for hi-jacking the subject of the original post, but I cannot help but notice that no-one, not even the Borgani enthusiasts, have claimed a higher weight than the R1 R&C. tenor. To date therefore the R1 must claim the title of World Heavyweight Champion, easily beating into submission the lightweights from France and Asia :D ...Regards...Bb

[pknight]

With regard to the ribbing interfering with the natural resonance of the horn I would site a bell or a wine glass- strike them & they will ring out; put a finger on either & strike them & the result will be dulled. I maintain therefore that the ribbing will act similarly; ie. as a sound damper.The "stiffness" is less important than the consistency of the wall thickness.

Captain,
You might want to peruse the threads in the "Saxophone Finish" section of the forum, as similar issues are debated there on a regular basis. Many would tell you that, unlike a bell or a wine glass, the sound from a sax is not produced by the vibration of the body of the sax. Rather, the vibrating reed sets up a vibrating column of air in the instrument, and it is those vibrations that you hear.

An effective demonstration is to blindfold a listener, and have a sax player sound some long tones. During the tones, have a third person periodically grasp bell or body of the sax firmly. Can the listener tell when this happens? Better yet, blindfold the player also, so he/she can't tell when the sax is being touched (although it could probably still be felt). I would bet that the listener will not be able to reliably tell when the sax is being touched.

I believe that ribbing is used primarily to make sax construction faster and more consistent. Of course, whenever there are differences of any sort between two instruments, people will wonder about the sonic effects, which the marketers will turn to their advantage.

[Morry]

My SX90R tenor weighs 7.5 lbs.

[JL]

My Buescher Aristocrat 156 tenor is noticably lighter weight than my MK VI tenor. Also a King Super 20 I tried once (brass bell) was also lighter than the VI. I haven't weighed them on a scale, though.

[shmuelyosef]

I agree that the Selmers (since the SBA, I think) and other modern horns probably weigh more because of the ribbed construction...Keilwerths are the only modern horns (I think) that still do the individual post thing...it is more about ease of manufacture and disassembly than anything else (IMHO).

Now that I am curious, I may weigh the horns I have here tomorrow.

[hornimus]

Cap'n Bb said: To date therefore the R1 must claim the title of World Heavyweight Champion...

It would appear so.

Hey Shmu, weigh your horns for us. I'm curious about the older Zephs/S20s.

[Captain Beeflat]

Schmu...Along with Keilwerths, R&C R1 saxophones are of un-ribbed construction..indeed, this is part of my nomonation for Heavyweight Champion!...It would weigh considerably more than it's 8lb 6oz if it were ribbed. You are correct when you state that ribbing is employed to increase production rates with the ribbed sections made as sub-assemblies prior to gluing the whole thing together...gosh, my neck hurts, but it's worth it for the sound. :D ...regards...Bb

[danodownunder]

SML rev D weighs in at 3.4andhalf kilos and the best sound i have heard on a tenor. Whats that in lbs ?

[Captain Beeflat]

Danz. At 0.35 kilos lighter than the Rampone & Cazzani, your S.ML. is currently the runner up to the title of World Heavyweight Champion :P .....Bb

[danodownunder]

And me with a stuffed neck, but hey thank god for spin straps. The SML is indeed heavy and NO high f# but ribbed post constuction and rolled tone holes and what a huge FAT and LOUD sound it has put my selmer to sleep.

[davidk]

Thread revived from the posting at http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=34977.

King Super 20 (all brass): 3.2kg (7lb according to http://www.manuelsweb.com/kg_lbs.htm)

[Kritavi]

I have been told that the relavtively lighter weight of the Super 20 is due to the light weight of the keys and that the bodies are similar to those of other horns.

[blackfrancis]

Are we weighing the horn before the gig or after? From the 3rd set on, I swear mine gains a pound!

[Pinnman]

Without neck:

Tenor:
Buescher Aristocrat 200 - 6lbs
Selmer SA80 Serie 2 - 7lbs

Alto:
Buescher TT - 4.5lbs
Martins (various) 5lbs
Dolnet 6lbs

Baritone:
Conn 12M (low Bb) - 9lbs
B&H La Fleur (low A) - 11lbs

That's all I can remember, most of these being history.

[hornimus]

Buffet SDA tenor, 3.4 kg
King Marigaux (SML stencil) tenor, 3.4 kg

Problem with my bathroom scale is, it only measures in 0.2 kg increments. That SDA feels a whole lot heavier than anything else I've owned, tenor-wise.

[A Greene]

I couldn't resist:

Alto: Selmer Mark VI (187XXX) original lacquer no High F# Body and Neck

5 Pounds 1 ounce
2.3 Kilograms

Tenor: Selmer Mark VI (95XXX) original lacquer no high F# key. Body and Neck - no mouthpiece.

7 Pounds 1/2 ounce
3.195 Kilograms

I have a postage scale that is extremely accurate.

[Giganova]

This is an absurd thread ... my Dodge Durango weighs 3 tons -- thats why its better than your BMW.... :dazed:

My JK SX90R nickel-silver weighs 2.9 kg, in agreement with what the Keilwerth website says.

[hornimus]

Absurd? One-dimensional, maybe, unscientific, certainly .... I was hoping to see which tenors stood out in sheer weight alone. Some people (not me) want to play tenor but don't because they have aging backs, etc. and prefer something lighter. The info on nickel-silver Keilwerths is valuable in that regard alone.Some people (me) embrace the belief that horns with heavier-gauge bodies might give us a certain sound we want (or don't want).It's not a big deal, nor is it any less absurd than many of the other threads that repeat history here ad nauseam. Absurd as it may seem, it sure attracted a lot of hits (including yours, Giga....). Maybe more people are interested in these factoids than one would assume.
Before too long, I plan to compile a list of all the horns/weights submitted here, once it appears we have a fairly representative sample.

[Giganova]

Don't get me wrong ... I wasn't trying to critisize anyone here, but after shape, plating, color and whatnot we finally discuss the weight of saxes. I find that funny.

[Kimsey]

Just to add to the list, my YTS 61 (with neck) 7lbs 7ounces. I am suprised I thought a yamaha would be one of the lighter horns.

[paulwl]

Digital bath scale (readout only to 0.5 lb):

1929 gold Conn Chu weighs between 7 and 7.5 lb.
1933 silver Buescher New Crat, same.

More later. Don't expect much different.

[Frank D]

'49 Silver 10M - 7 lbs., but feels like a ton after awhile.

[hornimus]

Buescher Aristocrat 3.06
King Tempo (Keilwerth New King) 3.13
Martin Committee II 3.23
Dolnet Belair 3.32
Yanagisawa T902 3.32
King Marigaux (SML) 3.41
Vito VSP (Yanagisawa T800) 3.42
B&S Chicago Jazz Earthtone 3.44
Buffet Super Dynaction 3.50
Dolnet Royal Jazz 3.60

These are kilogram weights for tenors I own, measured fully assembled (no mouthpiece) with a digital fish scale I suspended from a ceiling beam. Mostly old information I've posted before, but this time it's more accurate. I thought the CJS was heavier than the SDA, but I'z wrong. A Yani T880 might top the CJS as well. I recall someone posted a Mk6 weight that was on the low end of the range above. My conclusion from all this is, weight don't mean a thing past a sore neck.....:D

[cornific]

wear and tear on the human body may not seem like a big deal but the weight of the horn is part of the ergonomic equation for me. when i was just playing an hour or two a day all i cared about was the tone of the horn but as i began to top four hours a day with my tenor around my neck i started looking for a horn that minimzed the accumulated load. my sml wears me out faster than my selmer. and while i am focussing on skills aquisition this is a lot more imoprtant to me than the tone of every note i play in the day. hey i like the sound of my selmer too. i was seriously considering a couf superba 1 to match my bass and bari, heck i love the tone of the superbas but in the end i went and hung some selmers around my neck for about seven hours one day and didn't feel at all worn down by them so now i am a member of the selmer club. even though i have yet to click with a super twenty i like the idea of a even lighter tenor so i will keep an open mind about that. i believe the weight is a very important element for me as i expect to be spending a good deal of my life with one hangin' from my neck

please weigh in folks, as soon as i get my hands on a decent scale i will be weighing all of my horns

[58tenor]

The infinite dissection of minutiae. This IS absurd! Get a haircut,take off your glasses, wear a lighter shirt or do some neck excersizes. Get rid of that boat anchor metal 'piece. Skip lunch. Better yet, let's get someone to make a magnesium horn. Or carbon fiber. Or just sit down and learn keyboards. Or piccolo. I have dicked up my neck worse from sleeping than anything else.

Strap a bari on for awhile. That weapon will make a tenor feel like a toy.

[Enviroguy]

70's Buescher 400 large bore with original neck - 7.4 lbs.

EDITED: My bathroom digital scales seem to be off a pound.

[tommysax]

Tenor: Yamaha 875 EX Silver Plate = 7.5 lbs.

Alto: Yamaha 875 EX Silver Plate = 4.5 lbs.

JT

[J.Max]

My Keilwerth SX-90R weighs 7.5 pounds...unfortunately, it has 200 lbs of dead weight behind it...

[bari_sax_diva]

Tenor: YTS 875 - 7.5 pounds (interesting that this is the same as the YTS-61)
Baritone: YBS-62 - 12.5 pounds

Whoohoo!

[robinsax]

I've found out that your neck strap could be your worst enemy on a long gig. It could make all the difference of the weight of your horn. Get comfortable one. I like the Neotech, but it makes my neck sweat. I'm currently using a pro tech.

[thehighend]

Here are accurate weights for modern altos and tenors from the "Big 5," all measured with a precision digital shop scale with 1/100 pound accuracy. The following listed weights are in pounds. All horns have standard lacquer finish unless noted otherwise. I will update as I have access to more saxes. The differences between saxes are pretty small, and probably not worth worrying about. Basically, tenors weigh 7.55 +/- 0.25 lbs, and altos weigh 5.55 +/- 0.10 lbs. Pretty insignificant differences, at least for those new pro level saxes from the "Big 5".

Tenors...
Yanagisawa 991: 7.32
Keilwerth Shadow (plated): 7.36
Selmer Reference 36: 7.41
B&S CJS: 7.61
B&S CJS (Earthtone): 7.62
Yamaha 875: 7.68
Yanagisawa 9932: 7.83

Altos...
Yanagisawa 9933: 5.50
Yamaha 875: 5.52
B&S CJS: 5.61
Yanagisawa 992: 5.62

[cornific]

I've found out that your neck strap could be your worst enemy on a long gig. It could make all the difference of the weight of your horn.

the strap is indeed is a big part of the equation.

The infinite dissection of minutiae. This IS absurd! Get a haircut,take off your glasses, wear a lighter shirt or do some neck excersizes. Get rid of that boat anchor metal 'piece. Skip lunch. Better yet, let's get someone to make a magnesium horn. Or carbon fiber. Or just sit down and learn keyboards. Or piccolo. I have dicked up my neck worse from sleeping than anything else.

Strap a bari on for awhile. That weapon will make a tenor feel like a toy.

in the past i have broken both of my wrists, in particular my scaphoid on the right hand side so i find that my right hand is quite sensative to hand position and weight. for me this sucks as some of my favorite horns like my 6m and sml leave me with either a sore thumb and or sore tendons in the back of my right hand. i never noticed any problems with my YTS 62 or a buffet alto i sometimes play but my 62 has been out of action for a while awaiting a rebuild so i picked up a series II that seems to be fine for me as far as ergo issues are concerned. my sml tenor is my favorite blowing horn as far as the air moving through the horn but it kills my right hand if i play it out front. that is how i like to blow. i have noticed that many of the players who are shown playing sml's have what i would consider to be unusual or convoluted posture when playing their horns. recently i removed the thumbhook on mine, mulligan style, in order to find a new balance point for the thumb and i intend to move the strap hook down about an inch and a quarter as others have done to see if i can make it a bit friendlier to my situation.

to get back on topic though, having the weights of various horns posted here is helpful, not as an obsession, but because it is a hard to come by piece of information that is valuable to some of us who may wish to know what the facts are, for what ever reason.

when i am at home in my studio i play bari and bass as much as i can. i hang the bari from a harness. i only play the bass supported by something other than myself.

when i get home i will weigh those horns as well. i have no idea who could be comfortable with my superba bass hanging from his/her neck. i have tried and for me it simply is a no go. i do love to play it though.

[candiceartisan]

Highend,
Any chance of getting the weights on a CJS alto and Allora Earthtone tenor?

[BobD]

I have a Yani T880. I don't know what it weighs but it's WAY heavier than a series III,VI,VII,10M,Ref36 or SX90R.

[pjwsax]

Thank you thank you to everyone who is posting! I'm going to weigh my horns and post the numbers as soon as I get my hands on a scale that is accurate. I searched for info about weight since I'm interested in getting new horn(s) and unfortunately have been having some issues with tendon pain that have forced me to do some strange things with neckstraps (using two and rigging up a second hook, for starters!) to be able to keep playing. I have a harness on order and with any luck that will help, but all of a sudden the weight of different horns is a big deal. Other players occasionally pick up my (vintage) tenor and comment about how *light* it is compared with theirs, and I've been worried about whether I'll have to avoid certain horns because of weight.

I actually went through all the posts so far and have compiled a list of all the numbers everyone has posted in an attempt to get something approaching a good summary of all this. If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to post some of the resulting statistics once I get them calculated.

[Swingtone]

Yes, I am very interested. Another consideration where pain is concerned is ergos. Some of the older horns may be lighter but cause more pain because of inferior ergos...but I'm sure you already know this.

If you can't afford a Selmer Mark VI, I have found the King horns to be the best in the comfort department, especially the Super 20. As you can see from earlier posts, it's lighter than most vintage horns due to the annealing mfg. process, and seem to have been made for people with big hands, like myself. I have not found any vintage American horns that have better ergos. I hear the Martin's aren't bad, but I think those are on the heavy side.

[Dr G]

If you can't afford a Selmer Mark VI, I have found the King horns to be the best in the comfort department, especially the Super 20.

Interesting - I cannot stand the neck angle on a Super 20 tenor.

As you can see from earlier posts, it's lighter than most vintage horns due to the annealing mfg. process...

No. Annealing does not change the mass of the metal. All the atoms are still there. The density of the brass is constant.

[Swingtone]

edited

[pjwsax]

Yes, I am very interested. Another consideration where pain is concerned is ergos. Some of the older horns may be lighter but cause more pain because of inferior ergos...but I'm sure you already know this.

Since that's at least one interested party, I'll be sure to post once I've finished working it all out.

If you can't afford a Selmer Mark VI, I have found the King horns to be the best in the comfort department, especially the Super 20. As you can see from earlier posts, it's lighter than most vintage horns due to the annealing mfg. process, and seem to have been made for people with big hands, like myself. I have not found any vintage American horns that have better ergos. I hear the Martin's aren't bad, but I think those are on the heavy side.

Interesting, since I am currently playing a King tenor from 1927. My problems are definitely due to a combo of both weight and ergonomics. I'm hoping the harness will fix the weight issue for me, and hopefully then I'll be able to find a more permanent fix for the ergos part of it... When I do get to where I'm getting a new horn, I know that I'm going to need to play it for a good long stretch of time to get a good feel for the ergos before I make the final decision.

[Dr G]

For some reason, I just got a PM from Swingtone that thought I was "picking a fight". If anyone construes my last comment as adversarial, please let me know. I thought it was pretty factual and impersonal - certainly not an attack.

Ergos - I was noting that it was interesting (at least to me) that some find Super 20 so comfortable while they don't work at all for me. I naively used to believe that most horns were at least middle of the road.

"Light due to annealing" - most anyone that has been 'round SotW for the last several years knows that I try to sustain the truth about metals in music - whether it's cryotreatment, annealing, unobtanium or whatever.

I really don't understand what I did to irritate my fellow SotWer with that post. Swingtone, if you're reading this, please consider it a public apology. I did not intend any personal disrespect.

[Bill Mecca]

I didn't see it that way Dr. G.

To add to your comment on neck angles, I had a buddy that had an SBA, and I couldn't get a handle on the neck angle, almost hit my self where it counts! I also tried an LA SAX tenor, leopard spots if you must know, and the neck angle on that was truly whacked... he got a new, more reasonable neck. FWIW, my SDA might suffer from some pulldown, but its the only tenor I have ever really played for a long period, so it's what I'm used to and the measuring stick for everything else. (talk about a heavy horn!) I'll weight it some day. I have a Martin Indiana being rebuilt so we'll see how that compares when it gets back.

[hornimus]

Bill,

Buffet Super Dynaction tenor = 3.50 kg or 7.7 lb

Just about the heaviest horn I own, and one of the few I still plan to keep indefinitely ..... the dark side, yes, but with a sweet ring throughout...

Only, I don't like the SDA ergos that much, and I think the weight aggravates them. I plan to relocate the neckstrap ring; that should just about take care of it, I think.....

[1saxman]

'all the extr keywork, most of which is not needed'

I hear what you're saying, Bootman. I particularly don't like the high F#. More and more makers are now offering tenors without it, so I must not be alone on this.

[Pakriff]

Yamaha 61 tenor: 7.48 pounds
Conn 1932 Transitional tenor: 6.82 pounds

[pjwsax]

I've compiled all the weights given in this thread so far (as of October 20, 2006 @ 19:00 EST) and have worked out the statistics. Keep in mind that these results are only as accurate as what was posted. First, here's the results of all the numbers given:

Tenors
sample size: 42
minimum: 6.000 lbs / 2.722 kg
average: 7.312 lbs / 3.317 kg
maximum: 8.375 lbs / 3.799 kg
range: 2.375 lbs / 1.077 kg
std dev: 0.417 lbs / 0.189 kg

Altos
sample size: 9
minimum: 4.500 lbs / 2.041 kg
average: 5.257 lbs / 2.384 kg
maximum: 6.000 lbs / 2.722 kg
range: 1.500 lbs / 0.680 kg
std dev: 0.523 lbs / 0.237 kg

Baris
sample size: 3
minimum: 9.000 lbs / 4.082 kg
average: 10.833 lbs / 4.914 kg
maximum: 12.500 lbs / 5.670 kg
range: 3.500 lbs / 1.588 kg
std dev: 1.756 lbs / 0.796 kg

And for simplicities sake...
68% of all the altos weigh between 4.734 and 5.780 lbs (2.147 and 2.622 kg)
68% of all the tenors weigh between 6.896 and 7.729 lbs (3.128 and 3.506 kg)

Obviously the numbers for tenor are going to be more accurate than those for alto because there were almost four times as many tenors weighed. I would take the numbers for bari with a large grain of salt, since there are only 3 of them in the sample and there was a pretty big difference between their weights.

In the process of compiling these numbers I noticed that there was a wide range of accuracy in the weighing methods. In an effort to determine how much this may or may not effect the results, I went through everyone's descriptions of what they used to weigh their horns (if they even mentioned how they weighed them) and assigned a "score" to the weighing method. Using this, I was able to re-run the statistics with some of the least accurately weighed horns excluded. Rather than ask everyone to append their posts with a description of how they weighed them, I simply excluded the ones that were more than likely not very accurate (i.e. guesswork or rounded off more than about 0.2kg / 7 ounces) and gave the benefit of the doubt to those who didn't describe how they weighed the horns. The result of excluding these was minimal (i.e. the average alto and tenor weight changed by about 1%, or 0.06 lbs / 0.0275 kg), in my opinion, and only ended up removing 3 altos and 6 tenors from the samples. Only including the horns that were weighed very accurately reduced the sample size of tenors to only 18, but still only changed the averages by a little over 1%; not so much as to be useful to our discussion at this point.

If anyone is interested in more info about how I calculated this stuff, just ask away (or PM me). If anyone wants the raw data (spreadsheet), PM me and we'll work out how to get you the file.

Enjoy!
-peter

[thehighend]

Peter, I am guessing here, but I think most people are interested in a comparison of different specific models. Such a comparison should be done on the same scale, of course. Sample averages don't speak to which models are heavy, and which are light. But, at least you had some fun with Excel, right? ;)

[pjwsax]

Peter, I am guessing here, but I think most people are interested in a comparison of different specific models. Such a comparison should be done on the same scale, of course. Sample averages don't speak to which models are heavy, and which are light. But, at least you had some fun with Excel, right? ;)

Good point. Here are the numbers for the tenors only, since there weren't enough examples of altos or baris posted. Most models only had one example posted, and those brands that had many postings tended to span a wide range of time (i.e. Buescher: 5 tenor postings, 5 different models, spanning over 50 years of production). There were a few horns that had a few weights given for the same model, but not many. As such, these averages are highly suspect, but here goes...

All examples of a given brand (where there was more than one example):

B&S 7.605 lbs / 3.449 kg
Buescher 6.992 lbs / 3.171 kg
Conn 7.064 lbs / 3.204 kg
Keilworth 7.188 lbs / 3.261 kg
King 7.158 lbs / 3.247 kg
Martin 7.059 lbs / 3.202 kg
Selmer 7.251 lbs / 3.289 kg
Yamaha 7.520 lbs / 3.411 kg
Yanagisawa 7.490 lbs / 3.397 kg

...and the few where multiple examples of a given model were posted...

B&S Chicago Jazz Earthtone 7.602 lbs / 3.448 kg
Conn 10M 7.094 lbs / 3.218 kg
Keilworth SX90R 7.131 lbs / 3.235 kg
Yamaha YTS 61 7.459 lbs / 3.383 kg

[Giganova]

You forgot to include the Keilwerth nickel/silver tenor, as I have posted on page 2:

"My JK SX90R nickel-silver weighs 2.9 kg, in agreement with what the Keilwerth website says."

This seems to be by far the lightest tenor sax tested.

[pjwsax]

You forgot to include the Keilwerth nickel/silver tenor, as I have posted on page 2:

"My JK SX90R nickel-silver weighs 2.9 kg, in agreement with what the Keilwerth website says."

Actually, your horn is included in the average of the three SX90R's posted:

Keilworth SX90R 7.131 lbs / 3.235 kg

I did not list it separately in my last post because yours was the only posting that specifically mentioned "nickel-silver", and I was only posting averages.

This seems to be by far the lightest tenor sax tested.

You are probably right. Pinnman posted a Buescher Aristocrat 200 with a weight of 6 lbs (which is 2.722 kg), however he did say that was without the neck. How much does a tenor neck weigh? ;-)

And since we're talking extremes, the award for the heaviest tenor posted to-date goes to...Captain Beeflat's Rampone & Cazzani R1 at 8.375 lb (3.799 kg)

[frasermanx]

Ok .. without keycups and rods, and tubes, and guards .. just the body tube, elbow and flare ..

WHAT IS THE WEIGHT? I don't suppose many people know except manufacturers who may have tried to use thinner guage of brass...

But I will try to measure the thickness at the tonehole or somewhere that will accurately determine the difference since I have 4 different manufacturers in the "shop" right now

.. but I need to locate a micrometer first

Hey anyone have these measurements? Thickness of body brass?

I ask because the Conn stencil I have now is the best of all and is the lightest .. it vibrates when knocked .. like a bell -- weird .. strange

Frz

[Yellowhorn]

P. Mauriat black-pearl tenor:

Weight: 3.50 Kgs
Sound: Warm

[johnvs]

Dave Guardala tenor(year 1995), Black Nickel, 3,6 kgs.

[ThreeSaxes]

Gold plate 1998 Cannonball:
7.55lbs (3.42kg)
Measured on a scale with 0.005lb resolution.
Geeks of the world, unite!

[Hotspur]

My tenor weighs about 10lbs It's made of silver and has stones where the mother of pearl should be so it weighs a little more than an average tenor

[rispoli]

B&S 2001 lacquer Tenor: 3.25 Kgs
I am surprised of the difference between the Guardala above and my unit (were said to be the same...)

[ryp(nz)]

YTS-61S: 3.45(ish) kg
I weighed it nearly 2-3years ago.
Interesting someone earlier said the a 875 weighs nearly the same - the 61 construction is flange post construction as opposed to post on ribs.

[Ruediger Kramer]

B&S Guardala 501 (blacknickel goldbrass): 3,7kg

B&S Medusa series for Courtois (silverplated): 3,7kg


-

[tristanhall]

with the case... depends on what kind of day/week i'm having

[themacintrasher]

Lighter than my (nonexistant) bari.

[bari_sax]

I have a form of blood cancer that damages bones. It was caught early and I am in remission (yes!) after only one vertebra was affected. As a result, I am limited to lifting 20 pounds, and my wife has assumed the role of enforcement officer.

Therefore my KW tenor in it's case with an assortment of metal pieces weighs 19.5 lbs.

Curiously, my Naked Lady Conn bari in it's case with mouthpieces also weighs exactly 19.5 pounds.

I am hoping to one day acquire a bass sax and I am confident that it will weigh 19.5 pounds as well.

[frankeric]

YTS 875 EX 7.2 lbs

[sxmix]

I don't have a scale on hand, but my Super 20 is significantly lighter than my Series III.