Saxello!! [Archive] - Sax on the Web Forum

Mike W

03-31-2003, 10:02 PM

I have a King Saxello (My Mom played it in first grade in 1928--it was the only sax her family could find that fit her hands). Mine seems to play more in tune than most--according to what I hear from other folks anyway. But man, are the palm keys low (I have fairly large hands). It is scheduled for a rebuild this coming summer or fall. I usually play my Yani 901 soprano instead (very nice horn). The saxello does have a dark, sweet sound, although put a dukoff on it and it can be quite bright and edgy too. The ergonomics on the Yani are much better though.

Tim Price

03-31-2003, 10:07 PM

m.w- I hear ya..I had some custon stuff done to my palm keys,and some different thumb hook/L.H Thumb button etc.
I just lament when I see some of these saxes cuz' King was way ahead of it's time.
To bad they ain't around today...IMAGINE what might be going on :idea:
Also, imagine how many JOBS might be available in Clevland at the factory! But-that IS another topic.

T.S.

04-03-2003, 10:51 PM

Tim!-

You're one of the few player's I've heard mention Elton Dean! Ahhh The Soft machine...some great saxello playing.

I should have known your eclectic and open ears would have Dug Elton.

MMM

04-07-2003, 05:47 PM

Tim,

have you (or anyone else) played one of the new gold plated Rampone&Cazzani saxellos, just out of curiosity, and would like to share how they compare with the original?

MMM

Tim Price

04-08-2003, 02:31 AM

t.s-yes..I am a big Elton Dean fan.The guy in NyC who used to own "LunchFor Your Ears"...a record shop near the Knitting Factory used to get Elton Dean stuff for me.There's one called "Ninesense"..with a nonette playing all of his larger ensemble charts.Then of course El-Skid with Elton and Alan Skidmore..which is RAW free jazz.Beautiful stuff.
I saw the Soft Machine once live...and it really left an impression.

MMM- funny you should ask that :)
The Rampone&Cazzani saxello is pretty darn cool IMHO.My bud Mike Marcus is using one and it's really WELL MADE..and sounds saxelloish.
I tried it and really liked it.It plays great.Matter o' fact James Carter
tried Mikes ,Rampone&Cazzani and went for one himself.Tho JC would sound great on a garden hose & Lawton mth :lol:
I'd love to get Orfeo Borgani to make a saxello cuz' THEY have some metal that is unique.Tho, my King is right where I want it...nice boosters,
newer thumb hook and thumb rest..and custom wood lamberson mth.
SO, I hate to fish around.But-it's nice to know a GREAT horn exists that is in the sonic ballpark. BTW- English sax player Tony Coe is using a Rampone&Cazzani !!! He sounds beautiful on it,with a H super session mth.Maybe the best newer saxello sound yet.

MMM

04-09-2003, 03:00 PM

Thanks for that Tim, I'll be in Rome next week and I'll definetely take my sop mouthpiece with me. The main reason I asked was because I'm intrigued by the saxello sound, but they are so scarce I'll never get a chance to try one (let alone buy one, unless I win the lottery!).
Cheers,
mmm

Tim Price

04-09-2003, 03:08 PM

:borg: MMM...Get a saxello :lol:
Have a great trip & let us know if you go to the factory.
Hug a few Italian women for me ok,it's good luck :D

Wicked Good

04-09-2003, 06:26 PM

Besides Rampone & Cazzani, who makes a *good* modern saxello? How do the Cannonball saxellos compare?

I ask only because I find I can't play my straight Conn for any period of time before my right forearm starts getting sore as heck. As mainly a clarinet player, that's an issue. A saxello-style soprano seems like a more logical design. Perhaps a curved sop is an even better bet, but I've never tried one, so I have no point of reference.

All opinions welcome! Thanks.

rollen

04-10-2003, 05:43 PM

I caught part of a Hall and Oates show on TV the other day. Chalie DeChant was using a saxello. Awesome sound. He sounds great on tenor also. He blows some nice solos.

MMM

04-11-2003, 02:36 PM

Tim,

I don't think I'll make the factory, it's too far from where I'll be staying. As far as hugging Italian women, hey I can hug my wife for you!

Will let you know how the hugging goes, oh yes and the saxello of course...
MMM

T.S.

04-12-2003, 08:56 PM

Tim Price-There was also that album with Elton and Keith Tippetts with the cover art of two scorpions on a plate...I've been looking for it for some time..a great album.

I have every soft machine on LP up until the one that came after "Softs" with John Etheridge (talk about blinding fusion guitar!), I can't remember the title,but Jack Bruce played bass on it... Great stuff.

Did you see the original quartet/then trio-Or did you see them with Elton as quartet? (for a while they toured with a bigger band which had several horn players, but I understand the expense ended that pre-maturely).

I was really into Chris MacGregor's Brotherhood of Breath (with Dudu Pukwana) and Keith and Julie Tippett and Centipede and various aggregations of English fusion and jazz.

ozzytenorplayer

06-27-2004, 11:02 AM

Tim,

In your post you mentioned you saw Bennie Maupin in concert with Herbie in the 70's. Lucky you! I have a few cd's of Herbie's with Maupin playing and wondered on which track(s) he is playing the saxello, if you kindly knew. What a monster player the man is.. definately my soprano idol.
8)

Michael Ward

09-02-2004, 04:50 PM

One of the great albums to hear Bennie on Saxello is Survival of the Fittest by The Headhunters .He plays some fantastic saxello , tenor and bass clt. But ...........one of my favourite Jazz Saxello moments is Rahsaan's Afro Blue from his live tribute to Trane on Volunteered Slavery. Rising like a hornet's nest , Rah emerges out of Lush Life and whips up a SONIC STORM on his hot rodded saxello coming on like Trane's dark twin from a parallel universe ! !
Still one of the most exciting sounds in The Music.
Rahsaan! Rahsaan!!

kingperkoff

09-02-2004, 09:21 PM

What about King Curtis' "Soul Serenade"?!!!! He also recorded a couple of albums with the saxello, "You've Lost that Lovin' Feeling" and "King Curtis Plays the Hits of Sam Cooke" (mostly saxello). Isn't that a saxello on Ben E. King's "Spanish Harlem"?I heard that was Romeo Penque.

Michael Ward

09-02-2004, 09:57 PM

Yeh Soul Serenade is beautiful. I didn't know about the Ben E King I'll have to listen to that again. How's that nino doing? Do you play a Soloist on that ? I'd love a 6 Nino . A few years ago when Bill Lewingtons were still on Shaftsbury Avenue they still had a new 6 Nino but they wanted crazy money for it £5000 I remember. John Handy also played saxello .I don't know why people knock the saxello . It's meant to sound like that .The intonation gives it it's flavour . Certainly Elton wouldn't have sounded the same on a regular soprano.

goodsax

09-03-2004, 01:30 AM

What's the difference, if any, between a saxello and a semi-curved sop? If this is a dumb question, WTH, let the flames begin. 8)

saxtek

09-03-2004, 03:23 AM

Depending on the terminology you use, a Saxello IS a semi-curved soprano. I think Paul Cohen once described Buescher tipped-bell sopranos as 1/4 curved, Saxellos as 1/2 curved, and Lyon & Healy "perfect curved" sopranos as 3/4 curved. That makes sense to me and describes these instruments pretty well.

There is really only one Saxello, and that is the one made by King in the 1920s. The new "Saxello style" sopranos are really tipped bell sopranos and they look a lot like the super rare tipped bell horn from Buescher. Earlier in this thread somebody mentioned Charlie DuSchann from Hall and Oates. I replaced him in a rock and Roll band in Florida, and the soprano he used was a Lyon and Healy "perfect (3/4) curved" soprano, an extremely rare instrument.

Most of these horns are a lot of fun to play when set up properly. It's hard to find a stand for the tipped bell and Lyon & Healy sopranos, but the King Saxello wins out here because it came equipped with a wishbone shaped stand that remained on the horn when you played, and fitted into a special place in the case.

There is an Eb alto saxello, probably one of a kind from King, in the Fiske Museum, I think.

goodsax

09-03-2004, 06:08 AM

Thanks, saxtec. I owned a Milwaukee semi-curved black nickle body, gold-keyed soprano for awhile. It was, despite it's anonymity, a surprisingly well-constructed and excellent sounding sax. I never found any substantitve info about Milwaukee instruments other than what Jim Labbs (Milwaukee, WS) told me, but he was, and is, selling the brand. I paid $595 for a brand new semi-curved and that was a couple of years ago. I now have a Kohlert straight sop that I had engraved by DuMars last year.
But, I kinda miss that Milwaukee.

Dave Dolson

09-03-2004, 05:13 PM

Somehow, I missed this thread but have now read all the entries. I owned a King Saxello for a while - an atrocious instrument and similar to other Saxellos I'd tried before buying the one I owned. The intonation was as bad as any bad saxophone I've ever owned. Plus, the action and response was mediocre. PLUS, like all tipped-bell sops I'd seen, the Saxello was difficult to set down on stage while playing clarinet or alto.

I recall the original Saxellos came with a little two-legged stand that was affixed to a bracket on the back of the horn, allowing the horn to be placed on it's bell with the two legs forming a tri-pod with the bell. I eventually traded it away.

I know, I know, some players sound really good on theirs, but the ones I've experienced were poor. The only thing going for it was the look.

I also owned a Rampone tipped-bell soprano - an absolutely gorgeous instrument; well-made, great sound and a real player . . . SO much more superior than my Saxello. But like all tipped-bell sops and the Saxello, difficult to lay aside. I traded away the Rampone -but it was a super player.

No one has mentioned Jim Buchman, a traditional-jazz reed player of great skill - I think he may be playing with the Climax Jazz Band from eastern Canada now. He makes his Saxello sound good. DAVE

saxtek

07-04-2005, 03:58 AM

Years ago I made a copy of the rare King "wishbone" Saxello stand for one of my saxellos. I just put the wishbone stand up on ebay today, and I was playing the Saxellos for the first time in quite a while.

I once overhauled a Saxello for Florida jazz star Ben Champion, who always used a Saxello as his soprano sax. He used a slant signature Link 8 on the Saxello, and it played so well I always loved that horn. For a long time I tried lots of Otto Links on my Saxellos and never got the same results. Today, however, I tried some very different mouthpieces, some with fairly small chambers. The Saxellos play better than ever for me with a new Selmer or a Morgan mouthpiece, and I'm having more fun than ever.

William Bua

08-12-2006, 08:36 PM

Good ear Dave,
Jim Buckman was an instructor at a jazz camp put on by the Sacramento Traditional Jazz Society that takes place in Sly Park every August. As the assistant director, I can attest to Jim Buckman's mastery of the saxello. His has a customized stand which comes off a lyre mount near the thumb hook. Jim plays with technical savy and practical fire. Being able to spend one week a year with him and Abe Most as reed instructors was special. Buckman's horn was never out of tune either. Maybe the terrible saxello was worked on by a terrible tech? Who knows. That's my two cents worth; more like two dollars.
William Bua
Keilwerth tone king special tenor
Vito curved soprano (yani sc-900)

xax

08-13-2006, 05:36 AM

Didn't Rahsaan play saxello?

Tryptykon

08-17-2006, 10:45 PM

.

[Edited. .dbl post]

Tryptykon

08-17-2006, 10:47 PM

I'm sure he did .

He was an Ohio native(Columbus) and said he found the manzello and stritch
in the basment of a music store.

Kings being made in Cleveland probably littered the countryside at that time,
being the house brand of sorts.

I think the original bell was removed and an Eb alto(peck)horn bell was soldered
in it's place; although I don't know if this was done before Rahsaan aquired his
or after.

I have a King Alto horn and the bell is detachable by a thumbscrew.
At it's narrowest, where it joins the body of the instrument, it looks like it
would easily be the correct diameter to be soldered to the saxellos bell
section.
http://www.stellabooks.com/images/jazz/jazztheme4.jpg
----
Edit- that's not the best photo, as I've seen others with a larger bell,
so I think he did have a larger bell attached,OR may have had more than
one manzello..not too much of a stritch,,,er I mean stretch of the imagination
08-13-2006 04:36 AM

xax

08-18-2006, 03:25 AM

I asked my tech about Saxellos and he promptly dug out a weird looking mouthpiece that he thought might be for a Saxello...What does a Saxello mpc look like? This thing was reddish brown (bakelite?)had fluted sides (like that Ike Quebec piece) and a mesh looking metal collar. It fit/played on my alto but was smaller than most alto pcs; sounded bright on alto.

Tryptykon

08-18-2006, 03:31 AM

Hey xax ..
you do realize that the Saxello is a soprano saxophone;pitched in Bb ?

King (H.N. White) made a coventionally shaped soprano as well as the saxello
which had the bell, flaring out, at a 90 degree angle .

Tryptykon

08-18-2006, 03:35 AM

http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/king/king/saxello/silver/68xxx/index.htm

xax

08-19-2006, 02:07 AM

Hey Tryptykon,
Yeah I know they're basically a soprano, I just thought maybe Saxellos have a big bore.
Maybe it's just an unusual alto piece or...maybe it's for a stritch. Next time i take a horn into Jack, I'm going to take a coupla pics of the thing and post a "whatzit"?

Joe Giardullo

11-04-2006, 06:06 PM

Hello all

Just found this forum- very interesting.

I play both a straight silver King soprano (1929), my main horn for 35 years, and a silver King saxello, which I just picked up this year.

They are VERY different indeed. I think the bore on the saxello is smaller, for one thing.

And the tone holes for the low notes are much smaller than on my straight King.

And the sound, goes without saying, is completely different. But amazing, too.

About the straight King- I've never found another soprano that has a sound like it. Steve Lacy loved my horn, too.

Yes, Rahsaan definitely played saxello- check out "A Nightingale Sang in Berkley Square" on Roland Kirk Quartet Meets The Benny Golson Orchestra (mercury)!

Joe

Kritavi

11-05-2006, 01:44 AM

Joe, welcome to the site, great to have such an accomplished player here. I'm another saxello owner mine is currently being restored and I look forward to comparing it to my Conns and straight and curved Bueschers.

Michael Ward

05-22-2007, 04:13 PM

what do you King saxello players use for a stand ? thanks

John Gilmore

01-01-2008, 02:55 AM

I've used a regular tenor/alto stand via the right-hand thumb rest.

Michael Ward

01-02-2008, 03:08 PM

Hey up John thanks for answering. How are things in heaven? I really love your playing and Pat's.
Since this I had a stand made using saxrax parts. I just got a 24 disc CD set of Sun Ra live New Years residency in 1980.Cool

John Gilmore

01-03-2008, 05:58 AM

Yeah man, may John Gilmore rest in peace. Or is it, travel in peace? Hmmm...

Would you be able to post a photo of your custom stand here? I think I've read something about that custom order being possible.

Yeah, good score on the 24 disc set. Is that the Detroit residency?
It's great stuff. The Detroit residency has been circulating for a little while now, but someone decided to "package" it and sell it online just recently. Speculation is that the source material is from the very discs that have been shared by traders and Sun Ra enthusiasts this whole time. I certainly hope that the band is receiving some financial piece of that particular pie. Although, I believe any legit royalties from anything still go to the Ra estate. Anything on the radar, that is.

Mark

kingperkoff

01-03-2008, 02:43 PM

Michael, I play a Selmer C star with #4 Van Dorens on my Mark 6 sopranino. :D

Tim Price

01-03-2008, 03:25 PM

SAXELLO....

I'd be lost without it. I have my back thumb hooks customized by Roberto.
A round metal on the left and a larger metal on the right.This way the saxello just holds firm, without a strap & is comfy.

THE SOUND....fooooggggeeeetaaabout it. THE BEST.

ps- BEN CHAMPION is a fantastic player.

ZephyrSax

01-03-2008, 04:26 PM

Man, this thread makes me want me to go borrow that saxello from my repair tech...! Hmm...

Little Sax

01-03-2008, 07:37 PM

Michael, I play a Selmer C star with #4 Van Dorens on my Mark 6 sopranino. :D

Modern or vintage mpc?

Zacharias

01-04-2008, 07:54 AM

Zacharias

01-08-2008, 05:11 AM

I just noticed that when he was Montreux '72 he had smaller bells on his manzello than some earlier vids ive seen of him.

His tenor had some mods also and extra cluster for near the Left pinky im guesing for extending his range for one had playing.

Little Sax

01-08-2008, 05:46 AM

For those of you who have *actual* King Saxellos, what do you use for a stand?

saxtek

01-09-2008, 07:10 AM

For those of you who have *actual* King Saxellos, what do you use for a stand?

I actually made a stand from a cheap old alto sax stand. I can post photos, but few people would want to go to the trouble. The original "wishbone" shaped stand that came with some 1920s King Saxellos is very valuable because it's harder to find than the horn itself. If you have one, keep it even if you don't use it.

The problem is, the original small (fits in the case) wishbone stand isn't very stable. The horn falls over.
Old Saxello ads sometimes showed a later stand that's better and reasonably easy to make, even 80 years later. Here's how:

On the back of 1920s King Saxellos, there is a diamond-shaped flange soldered to the body of the horn near the bottom. The flange holds what looks like a lyre holder, but it is slightly different. Usually, on a lyre holder, there is thumbscrew that holds the lyre tightly, and when the lyre is not used, the thumbscrew can be left in the lyre holder.

On a 1920s King Saxello, the thumb screw goes through an unthreaded hole in the "lyre holder" on the lower back of the Saxello, and it screws into a THREADED hole in the wishbone shaped stand. When not in use, you leave the thumbscrew in the stand, not the horn. It's easy to lose the screw - not so good.

The later (original) King Saxello stands looked like a cheap (wire) music stand tripod with a square rod sticking out of the top instead of a music stand. They work much better. You can make one using lots of things for a base such as a mike stand, a music stand, etc. Just figure out a way to insert a square brass rod into the top of it. Some different ways to do that:

If your base has a round tube near the top, find a wooden dowel (or drumstick, or broomstick) that can be jammed or glued into the tube in the base, then drill a hole in the top of the dowel and hammer the square rod into the hole (if you made the hole too big, use epoxy).

Now, about that square rod. Where to get one? Most repairmen have stuff like this on hand. Or you can make one out of an old lyre that has a square stem. You need at least 3 inches of fairly straight square rod, and you need the right size rod. The Saxello uses one of the 2 most common sizes, so your chances are good that you can find a junk lyre that will provide the right piece of square brass rod. Some of you may want to bend the rod slightly to hold the horn at an angle, or maybe not. Don't bend it much. You don't need to reproduce the thumbscrew and hole. The stand is pretty secure without a thumbscrew.

My MYSPACE page:

http://www.myspace.com/saxpsychosis

Michael Ward

01-11-2008, 12:49 AM

hello Mark my stand was made for me by my repair man. It utilises a curved soprano peg made by sax rax and a Blayman base. The end result is like a little bass clarinet stand. I haven't picked it up yet.
The Ra set is on Transparency. They keep bringing great stuff out, cheers

John Gilmore

01-11-2008, 03:49 AM

Sounds cool Michael, post some pics when you get it. I'm sure we would all like to see that.

Yeah, I saw that Transparency also has the Horseshoe Tavern coming out. From '78! I need to pick that one up for sure.

Mark

Giganova

02-14-2008, 04:43 AM

Michael Ward

02-14-2008, 05:14 PM

They're great stands but won't work for the original saxello. The bell is at a right angle.

selmer

02-14-2008, 05:51 PM

Hey Tim, I play on a King Saxello and think i prefer it over a normal soprano.....yes i have to work more with my mouth, but the sound makes up for it. I can't get oner the build quality....15 years on i have to repair it less than my other horns.

Little Sax

02-14-2008, 08:24 PM

I have one of Phil Barone's saxellos, which is a fantastic.

Check out the Saxrax saxello pegs if you are in need for a stand, they are great and can be combined with all other Saxrax stands.

http://www.saxophones.co.uk/acatalog/saxraxsaxellosm.gifhttp://www.saxophones.co.uk/acatalog/pegraxaltosm.gif

Unfortunately what everyone seems to be calling a "Saxello" these days are really more like the tipped-bell sopranos that Buescher made. A "real" (i.e. King) Saxello has a 90 degree angle on the bell.

Zacharias

02-24-2008, 01:48 AM

Kirk would just use the piano or his armpit

blowhead9

02-24-2008, 09:05 PM

The Saxello went for, (take a deep breath and have a seat) $3550.00.

I`ve always wanted one, but will have to wait until they go back out of style.

John Gilmore

02-27-2008, 12:47 AM

Has anyone modified their King Saxello to an articulated G#? Is that possible?
That's my only gripe. I love the keywork otherwise, and I'm getting the intonation pretty solid across the range now. The trick for me is using a much smaller tip than I would have ever used. I'm finally able to make that small tip sound big. I'm a firm believer that, given a little time, you will sound like you no matter what mouthpiece you've got. The sound is so great, and really is different from soprano. I don't think I'm going back.

Michael Ward

03-03-2008, 08:01 PM

Mark I've been using my old Cstar that I use successfully on my V1. I don't think it plays as well on the saxello. I think I could go for something more open with a lot more kick and I have a Lamberson on order which I think will be good. The saxello is much more focussed or smaller bore than my V1. These two sopranos are my favourites along with the curved TT which I would like to re own one day. I still didn't get my custom stand from my tech yet. cheers Mike

Michael Ward

05-21-2008, 11:16 AM

I now have my custom built king saxello stand and it is superb. It is basically a scaled down version of my Blayman bass clarinet stand and breaks down for transport. I'll see if I can get a photo.

KingSaxelloman

06-12-2008, 07:10 PM

1929 King Saxello For Sale

I've had this beautiful baby since I rescued it from a kid who wanted to sell it to buy a "new soprano!" Evidently, he didn't know what he had!!! I took one look at it and said, "I'll take it!"

It was in descent shape when I first bought it, but I immediately took it to my saxman, Dr. Sax Ken Beason, and had it overhauled. It played, and still plays, oh so sweet. By varying the reed strength I can make it sound like an oboe or english horn, or with a soft reed it is brassy just like a trumpet! I played dixieland with it for years, playing at all the Texas Rangers home baseball games with my band.

I rarely play anymore, and I have two kids in college, so I can use the extra money for their expenses. Seems ashame, but I'd rather have someone get it who will enjoy it's marvelous sounds!!! It's in great shape, you may like some minor adjustments made based on your playing style and preferences. It come with a hardshell road case, the original case was falling apart when I got it, and also comes with a Selmer C* mouthpiece. Email me for more info. I take PayPal, beeing one who buys and sells items on Ebay often (US13Doolittle).

PRICE.........$3,500.00

Thanks,

Doug Connolly
email: dougconnolly@tx.rr.com