Bass Clarinet ??

[Alan G]

OK - so I play Bari in the Swing Band - and now I've come across the third chart that has a bass clarinet part in the Bari folder.....Hmmmm.

Having never actually played a Bass Clarinet - and only tried to play a regular one a few times - this brings to mind the following questions:

1. Am I Crazy to think about learning it?
2. Is a Bass Clarinet harder to play than regular clarinet?
3. I assume the fingerings are the same as a regular clarinet?

Then, assuming that I actually want to go through with the torture (look at all those fingerings!! - and they're different for each octave -ooooo) - that leads to the obvious quesiton:

What is the best bet for a cheap one? Plastic (resin) Bundy (eek!)? If yer gonna pick up one for less than $500 - what would it be?

Thanks guys and gals!

[Bootman]

Give it a go, Bass clarinet is lots of fun.

[super20dan]

both the bundy and vito are decent basses. most important is that you get a good mpc. its a lot of fun to play . i say go for it

[RS]

One tip on playing bass: use a Fibracell reed. Fibracells sound good and respond well on bass and are much less prone to squeaking than cane reeds.

[sinkdraiN]

I really dig Bass clarinet. I have had success with a cheap Vito plastic bass clarinet and a Vandoren B46 mp. The B46 is a jazz mouthpiece with a wider tip. I second the fibracell as a good all around reed on the bass clarinet.

[Alan G]

THANKS - awesome responses.

Last nite I pulled out the clarinet and the fingering chart. The resistance is really someth'n. Mind you - I play oboe. Is this normal - or is it the old POS (or really excellent - how would I know?) Conn model 78. I'm playing with #2 rico reeds and a clear plastic Bilger MP I picked up a 1/2 price at the local store.

After reading some - it appears that good tone on the clarinet takes some work. Does this hold true with the Bass? In other words - will I have the same difficulty on the bass as I am with the Clarinet?

Now - to find that old Vito on ebay - and sneak it in the house without the wife noticing!

[MojoBari]

A cheapy bass with a good, ~open MP and Fibracell reed really works well for doubling. The Vandorens are good, even the less open ones, and not $$$. I played on several of them for years. I now use a Bay.

Bass is easier than sop clar. You do not have to cover the holes, you get (need) to play loose chops, and you do not really need to play high notes.

But, if you ever want to play Bb sop clar, you should start learning on it first. I was given this advice and I'm glad I spent time on the sop clar.

[RS]

One more tip-- Bass is extremely fussy about leaks. One small leak and the horn can become extremely resistant and stuffy if not unplayable. So make sure your bass is completely airtight.

[Alan G]

Thanks MojoBari - and everyone else!

It'll take a bit of time before I find that *perfect* bass. So I shall commence/continue on the Clarinet (I've always felt the lessor saxophonest because I don't play clarinet..). I had intended - and now, based upon your comments about the range of the bass - I am going to concentrate on learning the scale from G below the staff to C or D above the staff. As those notes become imprinted (hard to do at *sniff* 47), I'll worry about the higher ones......

BTW - lay'n about is Gordon(NZ)'s dissertation on the flute....so lets see:
First - I think I'll work on that hard bari part....then, there's that Oboe thing for church com'n up.... lets try that flute embroucher change...ahh - a differnent reed for the clarinet......"Whats that Honey? Oh - the grass needs cutting....what?, help little Martin with his Math? ...Laundry- what laundry....ugh..taxes need attention......... :D

[Alan G]

oh yeah - MojoBari - is a "regular" clarinet technically called a Soprano Clarinet?

Thanks for the tip RS - anything I pick up will be adjusted/perfected by one of the best WOODwind guys around...

now - lets see whats on ebay 8)

[Gordon (NZ)]

I've worked on quite a number of bass clarinets with several mouthpieces in the box. Sad. So many people think a new mouthpiece can solve adjustment and venting problems. No way! When the instrument is adjusted well it goes well with any but the poorest of mouthpieces, eg the cheesy plastic ones.

Take heed. And they pretty well all need a lot of adjusting etc when they are brand new, both professional and student models.

[MojoBari]

Leaks are more important than mouthpiece by far.

As you know "soprano" clarinet is rarely used to descibe the regular clarinet. More often, it is simply called Bb Clarinet (to distinguish it from the A Clarinet, I guess) or just Clarinet. Being how the Bass Clarinet is in Bb too, I thought the use of "soprano" added clarity to my post. But I am not the first person to coin it.

[Noel Mac]

All of this advice is very good stuff. I would also add that if you are playing classical or just simply not doubling try rico royal grand concert reeds. The vandorens can be a little stuffy for me and if you are ever playing in a Wind Ensemble you need to be able to get loud and stay clear. A good centered, focused tone is a must for a bass clarinet player. I have heard too many doublers who just don't respect the bass in my opinion. I think bass is a joy to play and it can get you some gigs if you can play it decently. I am still working on getting there. Have fun.

[bcnsax]

Check those links:

www.bassclarinet.org/index.html
www.geocities.com/bassclar84/bassclarinetworld.html

I play on an old bassclarinet with a Vandoren B45 mpc and I use vandoren 3 reeds. They work well, but the bcl is an instrument that you have to practise a lot, specially the high notes, it just needs a good air and lips control.

Here are you pictures from my clarinet quartet, too!! :shock:

www.geocities.com/quartetpolicromia[/url]

[DezzaG]

Having played a number of Bass Clarinets during my years I cant stress the importance of getting the best possible that you can afford.The same with mouthpieces, if you can afford to have a look at Walter Grabners website, he makes a great Bass mouthpiece CXBB for under $100.
I use one of these pieces on my Buffet Low C Bass and it performs admirably.
Reeds-Legere, easy to play, sound great no warpage and no squeeks!

Dezza

[MM]

I can echo the previous post; Grabner mpcs are quite good and a good deal, and Legere bass clarinet reeds are terrific. Sometimes you do get high parts on bass, and a good setup along with a good, well-maintained horn will let you pop those notes with confidence, as opposed to playing timidly so you don't squeak!

[Bluemilk262]

bass clarinet is very easy in my opinoin. i picked it up just for fun and taught myself all the fingerings. half of them, are the same as a sax. the low ones are easy to get though. the fingering for a E on bass, is B on sax. D is A, C is G, and u get it. 8-5-1 stuff or whatever. and it looks like a sax so thats cool.

[Ritchie]

Just remember that many instruments are easy to play, but really hard to play well! (Ok, I am guilty to play more instruments than I do play well...)

Bluemilk, if you say half of the notes are fingered like on the sax, then you have not played any high notes on the bass clarinet yet!

[yaucante]

Then comes the next question, especially if you're looking for a nice tone and beginning on the Bass: Low Eb or low A? which one is better, or easier for the late bloomer? And if you're more into jazz, what kind of good beginner mouthpiece is recommended (material, tip)?

I went to a concert with the Louis Sclavis quintet in Tonic, NY, the other day, and man, this was truly a fantastic experience. I love John Surman as well, both on Baritone and Bass Clarinet.

Cheers.

Y.

[paulwl]

Anyone have much experience with the old (5pc wood) Conn 482N or Penzel-Mueller Brillante (made by Noblet)? I have one of each, both in need of overhaul. Great sounding horns up to G or so in the 2nd register (the Conn has the edge here, tho it may just be in better condition). But the high clarion and altissimo are a total loss. I want to be able to play in that register - is it "there" on these 1940s-50s era basses of pro doubler quality?

[Merlin]

Paul, it's common for basses with a single register vent to have a horrible upper register.

The better basses have one vent for the notes clarion B through D#...the other vent takes over from E on upwards. If your basses have this setup, the upper register should be viable. Forget about that range if they have leaks though.

I have a low Eb Selmer from the late sixties, and I can play nearly four full octaves. (low Eb to D4)

[Razzy]

Low Eb? Low A? LOW C?! Somebody clear this up for many! How many different types of bass clarinets are there and which would be the best for someone wanting to take it up to double on for pit orchestras and orchestral music?

[Merlin]

Bass clarinets are currently made in two types: low Eb and low C.

Until the thirties or so, basses were keyed to E. The extension to Eb was added to enable Bb bass clarinets to play the lowest note on A bass clarinets. You still run across A parts from time to time - the worst is bass clarinet in A in BASS clef!

Russian bass clarinets were built with extended ranges well before the French makers added them. Therefore, it's not unusual to see extended range parts in Russian lit.

Conn, for one, started adding low D's to their basses. I've seen wood and plastic basses like this.

The low C may have become the standard for extensions because it takes the bass clarinet to the same low note as the bassoon.

Currently, only top end pro bass clarinets have low C's, and you really only need them for some orchestral music and shows.

It is possible to get older low E or Eb instruments extended to a low C. Clarinet maker Stephen Fox here in Toronto is one who builds such extensions.

[MikeH Cl/Sax]

Finding a bass clarinet under $500 may not be easy. I searched long and hard and finally decided that a used bass plus the cost of an overhaul would be right at the price of o new student level horn. So I ended up getting a new vito bass. One way to go is to buy a used bass from a music store or repair tech, you end of with a used instrument that is repaired and adjusted and well under the price of a new one. However you kinda have to be at the right place at the right time. My local music store sold about three a year in the $600 (US dollars) price range, but went through a long time with none available when I was shopping. But having said all of that, I agree that you should learn the "little clarinet" first.

[JS]

Keep working on your "regular" clarinet chops - it's far too easy to approach the bass clarinet like a saxophone! :o
Here's a few tips that I've picked up over the years:
First, a lot of doublers use tenor sax reeds on the bass clary - it gives a little more projection - just make sure that you're using a more "classical" reed, like a Vandoren, Superial Classique, or a Rico Royal - at least that's what guys have told me. Also, if you can find one, try a Bundy. A lot of doublers in the NYC area play 'em as their main axe. Gary Smulyan uses one all the time now - he had a nice wooden Selmer, but told me that the Bundy was not only more durable (less time in the repair shop), but it also projected a bit more.
Have fun!

[Merlin]

I agree, the Bundy is a durable horn, and can be a good doubling instrument, in fact the first recording I did on bass clarinet was on a Bundy. However, the Bundy is really only good up to 5th line F. After that it plays like it's got a sock in it.

And while the body of these horns is quite durable, the keywork has a very mushy feel to it.

[xraydog]

Hi,

In the last 10months I have fallen into playing bari sax. Much of this is with pit orchestras which call for doubling on bass clarinet. I would like to purhcase as clarinet. I was told the Bundy's are a great horn...... Is the Selmer Bundy the same as the Selmer 1430P (newest student bass clarinet)? If not are there any serial numbers to look for? Also anyone have any experience with the new Yamaha YCL 221?

I just can't justify spending thousands of dollars righ now on a wood bass clarinet.

Rick D.

[Merlin]

Selmer USA 1430P and the Selmer Bundy are the same horn. Doesn't matter what numbers are on it. Condition is all that matters.

The Yamaha YCL-221 is by far the best student model bass I've ever played. It's very different from the 220, which was actually a stencilled Vito.

[RS]

A couple of years ago I rented a Selmer student bass (Selmer/Bundy I guess). This horn was just completely unplayable. Anything above the break was a lost cause. I had the store I rented it from send it to their repair shop two or three times and the horn never got any better. Finally I just turned it back in to the store with about a month left on the rental. Just an unbelievably poorly made and poorly designed instrument. If this horn is typical of the current crop of Selmer student basses then they should be avoided. From what I've been able to gather Yamaha seems to be the way to go for a student line bass. I like my pro model Selmer alot but that rental student bass was probably the worst horn I ever played (or tried to play).

[michaelbaird]

I got my Kohlert bass clarinet for $410 off of e-bay. I also had to take it to my repairman for a tune up. It is keyed to low E. I bought a Selmer USA bass off of e-bay for 450.00 and it was a good player and didn't need any work. I would shop around, and get a good mpc. I'm using a Vandoren B45 mpc and a med hard Lavoz reed. I sold the Selmer USA one. I found that anything above the break to be very resistant and stuffy. The Kohlert doesn't seem to have as much trouble with that. I tink some of the stuffiness and resistance maybe due to the nature of the instrument itself. My alto clarinet is stuffy above the break as well. I have to open my throat more and use more breath support. It gets better with practice.