(sort of) beginner (sort of) decent mouthpiece

[dragstroke]

Hi, I am 32 and returning to the joy of sax after about a 10-year hiatus. I'm also switching to tenor from alto (always envied their sound). So, I got a horn, which is getting patched into relatively playable shape right now, and I'm thinking on the topic of mouthpieces.

I am fully aware that I won't be able to handle the kind of MP's I used to blow on alto before I quit (if I remember correctly, I was using a metal Selmer F for jazz/rock, some kind of hard rubber for concert). On the other hand, no way do I want to settle for some el cheapo plastic deal ... I've the got the resources to do better and I'd like something I can stick with longer than a month without hating it.

There's a Selmer hard rubber C* at the shop I went to and I'll probably just go for that unless there's something I'm missing. I'm reasonably confident that I can handle that from the outset and won't get unhappy with it too fast.

Any suggestions from the enlightened crowd?

P.S. First post here, great board!!

[MarkD]

Paul C. has an article on this subject that might be of interest to you:
http://www.saxontheweb.net/Coats/mouthpiece.html

You might find that the C* is too closed for what you want to do on tenor.

I started with a C* on tenor after switching from alto and quickly found that I needed something more open. I settled on an Otto Link 5* - not too open; not too closed. I have two ligatures for it as well: the standard Otto Link; and, a Rover Eddie Daniels II. The standard Otto Link ligature plays fairly dark. If I want to sound brighter then I switch reeds and change to one of the multitude of settings offered by the Eddie Daniels II.

Good Luck!

[Troy]

I like Runyons. I have one of the SR versions. I also have a Lawton that I like a lot. The runyon in cheaper and sounds great, if you like the West Coast jazz sound. The also rock well, with or without the spoiler.

[dragstroke]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'm going to refine my question a little bit. Given that I have zero chops for the time being, but should be able to develop relatively quickly having been that route before (I hope!!), and given that price isn't that much of a factor (I could go up to $180 or so if necessary) should I select:

a) an MP suited to a beginner (are these only called "beginner" because they are cheap?), or

b) a better MP that can do the exact kind of sound I want to wind up with a year or so from now, or

c) a compromise between these two extremes?

It seems like advice on buying MP's is geared towards either experienced pro's, or high school students with no money. I don't fit very well in there. :wink:

MarkD, thanks for the article; sounds like a good idea to avoid the C*. I'm looking Runyons over - looks like a lot of range there.

[Dave Dolson]

dragstroke: If it were me, I'd try for the best piece I could find regardless of the condition of my embouchure. In MY opinion, a strong embouchure will only improve results on an already suitable mouthpiece.

For instance, you find one that plays easily for you and sounds good. THEN, as you develop, you increase your endurance, maybe focus your sound a little better, and improve the response in the low end and extreme high register, but the basics of good tone and ease of playing remain.

Many of us like Meyers and Barones, and Selmer's various pieces. I prefer the Selmer Soloist over all others. I imagine that someone who USED to play saxophone could get good results from a pro-line piece without first going through the "beginners". Good luck. DAVE

[ncm]

I'm going to open myself to ridicule on this board, but consider a slightly more open piece like a D instead of the C*. That will let you start and have good success while you develop your chops. Then after you are comfortable you can get into the insane mouthpiece shuffle.

Just my 2 cents.

cheers

[Gandalfe]

I went with another mouthpiece Dave Dolson recommended, a Selmer Super Session and I found it to be an excellent piece for my SOP. I also have a Selmer metal mouthpiece that I thought was a Selmer Jazz but found out later it wasn't a Jazz piece.

I asked a music store (Mills) to bring in some used alto mouthpieces and tried them for over an hour. I ended up going with another Selmer metal and then found a way cool Otto Link Tone Edge on e-bay. I use no other alto piece now, and I am really happy with those choices.

Since the physics of your mouth will come into play you will want to try a mouthpiece before you pay, if at all possible. Good luck!

[singlereed]

I agree witht he Runyon suggestion - these have always seemed to me to be easy to play. I also recommend the Vandoren mouthpieces, they are consistent, high quality, reasonably priced and offer a good choice of designs to give the feel and sound you are looking for. An A28 is great for classical/concert playing, and an A6S or Java series will give a bit more brighness and edge for jazz. If you can, use a tuner to see the intonation tendencies of different designs, it can be easy to like a mouthpiece in the shop and not notice the fact that it is playing flat or sharp for you, especially at the top end.

[Paul Coats]

First, the Selmer tenor C* is way too small, regardless of skill level. In the Selmers, for classical, I recommend at LEAST the D, better, E facing. The S80 will not be suitable for general playing.

But regardless of the brand you settle on now, I cannot recommend you buy metal. Your embouchure will change a LOT in the next 3 or 4 years, and the tip opening you can play best on now will not be what you will need in the future.

I DO recommend buying any of the many good mouthpieces in hard rubber or plastic, for now, a facing in the .085"-.090" tip opening range. In the future, you may have it refaced to a larger tip opening.

Only when you are sure that you have settled on a tip opening that works for you, and model, is it smart to buy metal.

[dragstroke]

Thanks for the comments from everyone. I've definitely been dissuaded from going anywhere near the C*! I still don't have the horn out of the shop, but when I get it (probably this weekend), I've decided that I'll just have to take it out and find a shop somewhere around here that actually has some stock in mouthpieces and try them out. I'm armed with a tip opening chart that I found in a Usenet FAQ, the comments posted here, and a bunch of other articles and info.

The biggest problem is finding stock - of the three shops I've been to, they only have between 1 and 4 tenor mouthpieces in the entire shop. Given the variety I see online, I think I need to look a *lot* harder for someone that's got the stock in-house.

On a side note, as a returning player, I have to say that I feel somewhat awestruck -- the volume of resources that are available online now absolutely dwarf what I and my family could find when I was a teenage/early college student. Back then, we just did what the local band directors, instructors, and shop people said. No one talked much about the real differences between mouthpieces, for example, and how those differences affected tone quality, playability, volume, etc. They just said "you need a better mouthpiece. Look, they've got a Brilhart, try that," or whatever.

Oh well, I'm rambling, but once again -- THANK YOU! I think this board has saved me from an early and expensive mistake...

[teacherguy]

Of course, this is just my anecdotal experience.....FWIW

Just wanted to chime in and say that I'm very happy with my new Runyon Custom Spoiler that I bought for my new (old) Yamaha 61 tenor. The tip on this piece is an 8, which is way more open than any of my alto pieces.
It took me a couple of days to get used to the tip opening, but the mouthpiece is really easy to control, intonation is great, and the sound is HUGE! This thing will really wail when I want it too, but at the same time is very controllable and easy to play softly as well.

Less than $70.00 at wwbw.

Good luck with your search.

[Paul Coats]

teacherguy: You remember the old commercial, what are you hungry for when you just don't know what you are hungry for? Something on a Ritz cracker." Well, when a player needs a good mouthpiece, and just doesn't know what to get... I recommend a Runyon Custom Spoiler for general playing. I think if Drag were to try a #7 (.090" tip opening) in this model, he would be able to just concentrate on getting his chops in shape, and have a pretty good mouthpiece in the mean time. I like the Custom Spoilers myself, and use them for most of my general playing, big band, sax quartet (well, we swing), and even played this piece in a 50's-60's rock and roll band. Just a good all around piece. Plus, it is not at all radical. So, there are no intonation or response issues with it. It works on a wide range of sax models.

[teacherguy]

Paul,

Yeah, I remember that commercial! You are right, that piece of advice is given a lot here, so there must be something to it.

The Runyon may not be "the" choice for everyone, but it seems to work well for many people, and the price is reasonable too.

[brucesax]

IMHO, You may want to try a Meyer 5. Something with a nice sound that you can stick with for a while. It's a medium opening but will take some air if you want to push it.

[teacherguy]

Funny you should mention the Meyer 5, as I will be trying one of these this week. It came highly recomended as well. I will post my impressions..........

[dragstroke]

Runyon, Custom SR #5. Amber. :D

I'm amazed -- it's not quite like I just stopped playing yesterday, but wow, it's a lot better than I thought. Thanks to all for the advice -- after getting the horn out of the shop and getting a chance to try a few mpc's, I *know* I wouldn't have liked the C* much - even from the get-go, and almost certainly not after my embouchure starts coming back, which I think won't take as long as I'd feared.

Off to play some more...