Band is a Sport

[SaxPlayer1004]

we should consider band a sport
dictionary.com definition: An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
physical exertion, just ask a bari player or bass player, or marching band person.
skill, ask a random guy whos never played sax in his life to play a charlie parker solo
set of rules or customs- stay in time, in tune, breath properly, backs off the seat.
often undertaken competitively- seat placement, section placement ( a tenor player who isnt good enough to play first alto and was thrown on tenor or bari because of it, but works hard enought o get to first alto) or marching or concert band competitions etc.
whose with me. marching band should be in the olympics !!!!!!!!
or not, but hey its worth a shot. how cool would it to say, "hey i have a gold metal from the olympics"
"in what?"
"Marching Band!"

[pknight]

A thought:

The local public school district, like many districts around the country, is cutting costs to meet income shortfalls. Of course, many of the early budget lines to be cut are those associated with extracurricular activities, such as sports. When there is discussion about this, many people automatically include music as another extracurricular area that might be cut. HOWEVER, in every school system that I know about, music is NOT extracurricular. Music classes, including marching band, are academic courses, taken for credit that applies to graduation requirements.

I appreciate the effort that goes into marching band. In fact, after years of lobbying our school board finally agreed to award 1/4 physical education credit for each season of marching. But it's still academic credit, and I would prefer that we not associate music with non-academic activities. It's hard enough to keep music programs going without lumping them with sports in the public's perception.

[saxybeast]

I agree with the points made. I'd rather not see band grouped as a sport (i'd rather not be seen as a jock just for being in band lol). But I often hear of All-State and All-American football players, but what about All-State saxophonists? My school district recently cut funding to our band by about 2500 dollars. They gave money to the sports programs. While I respect people with the talent to play sports, I feel that us talented players also deserve respect from our peers. We get fatigued from playing just like they do. I've had four concerts in two days, three of which included the concert band, jazz ensemble(where I play lead alto), and various small ensembles(including two charts by the saxophone ensemble that I play lead in as well); the other performance was strictly the jazz ensemble. While it's fun, it's also exhausting.

Band is definitely not a sport. However, we deserve just as much respect as any football, basketball, or soccer player out there for doing what we love, and, in most cases, doing it well.

[BlueNote]

In my school district (or school anyway), you can waiver PE class by taking Marching Band. In the fall we rehearse for the Homecoming Field Show, and by playing at football and basketball games. In the spring time we do the Apple Blossom Parade in Wennatche, Washington, which is a good 2 miles long, typically about 80 degrees out. There are also a couple of other shorter, less intense parades (and definately a lot cooler). Every week we have marching practices once or twice during the week.

It is definately a commitment. We have one of the best marching bands in the state of Washington. We're trying to get into Pasadina (sp?) for the Rose Bowl -- a 4 mile long parade.

Let me tell you, playing music and high step marching in full wool uniform on hot days for at least a mile can be a workout.

[Sigmund451]

Ive tried to convince my Doc that playing saxophone is exercise but he just aint' buyin'.

[sax_appeal]

Ha! You should do what I did and find a doctor who is a saxophonist.
I agree though that it should be classed as a sport- that way I can get my parents off my back (the only sport I play is cricket, and my parents don't think you need to be fit to play)

[Sam]

<<we should consider band a sport>>

Music is the only non-competitive group activity commonly taught in schools.

Most adults spend most of their time in non-competitive group activity.

For the past twenty-five years, more or less, many so-called "music teachers" have worked to make music into a competitive activity. It's wonderful for teachers, because if their kids win "first place" people think they must be better than the teacher whose kids win "second place."

Yes, when I was in high-school 25 years ago, it WAS fun to win at Berklee etc. But it took me a long time to realize what we were forced to pass up to do it.

[Steve J.]

Marching Band is a sport.

If the rest of the music program is not justifiable for solely academic and artistic reasons it does not belong in school. Marching band should be part of physical education.

If "concert band" is strictly a vehicle for improving phsyco-motor development - this is a situation that is expendable or truly does belong in a P.E. or athletic department. If in four years musical knowledge and growth isn't increased equivalent to four years of english or math or history or foreign language knowledge & growth this band class is expendable and does not belong in an educationally justifiable music department.

Lets not confuse the need to be physically fit to perform well with real music education goals. If there is confusion I hope things improve.

[rsclosson]

Unfortunately in my school district. If there is ever a need for budget cuts, they go after Music programs and Band. I think these guys would drop Math before they let football suffer! :evil:

[Steve J.]

Math, music, band & football are all important for overall education. If art education is occuring in the band classroom, the value of this is more important than if band is on the same perceived educational level as football or worse yet a club.

If the music band program is at a high academic level its preservation level is rightly justified. It should be cut if it mirrors a club or another sports team.

Marching band is a seperate entity because its music focus is but a part of the whole physically oriented thing. Its focus is simultaneosly as much visual and physical as aural. This isn't music focus. Its more about disciplined coordination. - Physical Education. It should be in that department and justified to school boards that way.

[Razzy]

Something we've always had to deal with is the fact that there are many more sports parents than band parents, so naturally the sports budget will get passed and the band budget will tend not to get passed. However, as the band program develops, good things can happen. This year our budget passed. Of course I'll be in college, darnit :)

That said, I think music is a unique combination of an academic and a physical experience. You can't really lop it into either category totally. Certain classes, as mentioned, are more physical than academic. At my school, marching band, jazz band, and all the volunteer chamber ensembles and smaller groups are extracurricular and occur as after school activities. Music theory, concert bands, orchestras, and large choirs are academic and occur during the school day. It's obvious to see the dichotomy involved when one realizes all of this falls into "music".

Personally I'd rather not see marching band, even, become considered a "sport". Our marching band is non-competitive, and as a result, incredibly fun and rewarding, and at the same time, a unique experience of musical education. Band is one of the few activities that is that way.... builds both skill and knowledge, both character and intellect... let's keep it that way!

[SaxPlayer1004]

i was just thinking though, that if the marching band budget was tapped into the athletic budget as opposed to the music budget we might see a different aspect of it. i mean for concert band a school generally owns the low brass, the bari sax's, sometimes tenors, the low clarinets (alto and down). and percussion. for marching band you have to have all those instruments except low brass because its hard as hell to march an upright tuba (hence the convertibles and marching tubas and sousas) and upright baritones, french horns etc. and you have to buy the uniforms and the drumline stuff. if that all got into an athletic budget we might just see new equipment every 4 or 5 years as opposed to every 10 or 15. i mean i think it would be a disgrace to see under the sports directory for signups
"marching band, football, ice hockey, field hockey ..." but under the budget terms thatd be awesome to have budgets for marching band and concert band.

[Steve J.]

i mean i think it would be a disgrace to see under the sports directory for signups
"marching band, football, ice hockey, field hockey ..." but under the budget terms thatd be awesome to have budgets for marching band and concert band.

?? A disgrace for who? Each dicipline requires ahthleticism, specialized psycho motor skills and specialized physical coordination. Marching Band is more like a sports team than a music class.

[SaxPlayer1004]

agree on that. however i agree with saxybeast. if you look at the stereotype of a jock, how many of us actually fit in with that description. i mean ive been asked if i would play football because im a big guy and perfect as a lineman, but its the whole jock steroetype. i also agree with steve that marching band is much more like a team sport than a music class. if you think about it, how many times are you out in uniform competing on how you look as a team and perform as a team in concert band. no one could care if your seat was 6 inches off line from the rest, but in marching band everyone has to be perfect in the line to get graded properly. but i mean by definition marching band is a sport as i said initially, but it is a much more mentally and fine motor skills demanding than say football or baseball, how many of them can play an instrument while marching in formation. but i still cant see marching band being grouped with bseballe and football etc. just me. still a sport.

[Paul Coats]

"You should do what I did and find a doctor who is a saxophonist. "

Sigmund, contact me, I will give you contact info of several doctors who are saxophonists.

And anyone who thinks marching band is not athletic.... well, watch the movie Drumline. If that does not convince them, nothing will.

And tell me it is not exertion to stand on stage and basically hyperventilate for 4 hours. Just unloading and loading the equipment is work. And 30 minutes into the first set I am sweating, and by the second set, my clothes are soaked. Tell me I am not working!

[SaxPlayer1004]

Thank you Mr. Coats.
Atleast someone else I know sweats like a pig on stage, between me and my conductor I swear we could fill a two liter bottle with sweat. That'd be just plain nasty but you get the jist.

[vick]

I hate to see marching band viewed as a sport, as it was at my highschool. When music becomes something to compete with rather than a form of expression, we've missed the point of music entirely. I was only in marching band for the unfortunate reason that it was required in order to be in the jazz band. I hated it with a passion, we didn't play and express ourselves as players, we fit into a rigid construction that strangled creativity. I prefer to keep music in the realm of art, where there are more and less skilled artists but both are good in their own way.

I will admit it did take work and a bit of exertion, but it was nothing compared to the physical work you undergo in some highshool sports. As a wrestler, I worked and conditioned myself 100 times harder than any marching band has to, or should have to. How many people have been physicaly unable to walk after a band practice from fatigue (If you have I want to hear you play because you must be a monster! :twisted: ). Wrestling took as much finesse as saxophone did (watch the college mid weight wrestlers on ESPN, thats finesse), although I wasn't very finessful (however you say it) in highschool on my horn.

[Steve J.]

I hate to see marching band viewed as a sport, as it was at my highschool. When music becomes something to compete with rather than a form of expression, we've missed the point of music entirely. I was only in marching band for the unfortunate reason that it was required in order to be in the jazz band. I hated it with a passion, we didn't play and express ourselves as players, we fit into a rigid construction that strangled creativity. I prefer to keep music in the realm of art, where there are more and less skilled artists but both are good in their own way.

This is why "marching band" as opposed to a "concert type band" are so different and why marching band is a sport, belongs in the athletic department, and music in the Arts.

Comparing marching band to wrestling athleticism is unfare. Wrestling and XCountry are probably the most physical of all high school sports. Bowling is a sport and Marching Band is physically tougher in my opinion.

Competition is a large part of sport. You are kidding yourself if you consider competition not a part of non marching band music. Even actual Contests and competitions are abundant and important in Music and Sport.
Competetion does not make something a sport.

Is dance a sport or an art? It entirely depends on the context and the focus of whats being studied and practiced.

[vick]

I was not disputing that marching band has been viewed more as a sport, rather I was expressing my dipleasure at it. I only made the wrestling comparison to show what I think should be a sport where competition is necessary and welcome.

Competition is a large part of sport. You are kidding yourself if you consider competition not a part of non marching band music. Even actual Contests and competitions are abundant and important in Music and Sport.


I was not disputing that fact, I was merely stating I wish it wasn't that way. I hate to see music turned into a matter of who's better than who, with a universal standard applied to what the music should be.

This is why "marching band" as opposed to a "concert type band" are so different and why marching band is a sport, belongs in the athletic department, and music in the Arts.


Don't forget, there was also extensive stage band competition, UIL and the such. Along those lines, marching and concert band are one and the same, with one on the field and one on the stage. That is the same reason I didn't enjoy the concert band, as it's point was not to make music but rather to win competitions.

Is dance a sport or an art? It entirely depends on the context and the focus of whats being studied and practiced.

Good point.

[SaxPlayer1004]

Don't forget, there was also extensive stage band competition, UIL and the such. Along those lines, marching and concert band are one and the same, with one on the field and one on the stage. That is the same reason I didn't enjoy the concert band, as it's point was not to make music but rather to win competitions.



how can you say marching band and concert band are one and the same? marching band does not focus primarily on the sound of the music. you can't expect that out of a marching band. there are too many factors affecting each individual instrument that when you come off of the field its almost guaranteed that the band won't be in tune any more. the wind carries away dynamics. instruments are completely different (percussion and low brass especially). Each type was designed for a purpose. Marching designed for viewing pleasure as a half time show incorporating music to keep it interesting. Concert band to enjoy the musical aspect (hence the reason for the recording studio) what is the point of listening to a marching band perform say a Pirates of the Caribbean theme on CD when you could here the same musicians perform the same show inside an auditorium and get better sound quality. Marching band is about 70% visual 30% auditory. Concert band is vice versa.

[vick]

I never said they were exactly the same. I said that the competetive aspect was the same, which is my only problem with the matter. I have nothing against marching band if its out of fun and entertainment, and I loved playing in community concert bands because that too was for the music alone. I just hated the warping of the music into something to compete about.

[Steve J.]

Vick, what bothers me about what your saying is I can't think of how performing music can ever not be competitive...... I guess if you are possibly performing not to the best of your ability....... but that makes little sense.

One competes to be at a skill level to even be able to participate in a Community band. Its competitive to be the best that you can be and have the ability to express yourself musically. Its competitive because you want to be at a skill level that a listener wants to listen.

"I just hated the warping of the music into something to compete about."

How did the music get warped? If its at a level to be competetive it should be at a peak of artistic expression........ far from warping it into something else. Its warping into excellence...... the end goal right?

[SaxPlayer1004]

Every musician competes all the time, to get into bands you have to compete against other applicants. chair auditions thats a huge competition. and formal band vs. band competitions that occur between concert and marching bands.

[vick]

It seems I've dug myself a hole here, let me set what I'm saying straight before it bites me any more than it has.

In my opinion...
The point of the music is not to make the band or win the competition, as it is at times made out to be (if you read Funky Winkerbean, theres a strip just like this). When you compete, you compete against yourself, you don't have to "prove you worth". There will always be someone out there better than you, so try to be the best you can be and don't get caught up in who won what competition or who is what chair. Music isn't something you win or lose, and the competition isn't what makes music. People didn't write those etudes as a standard of competition, those etudes were written to improve you as a player.

SaxPlayer1004, I haven't been saying that competition doesn't occur, I have just been saying there's so much more to music than competition and in my opinion too much importance is placed on how you rank compared to others.

Steve J, I'm not saying competition warps music at all times. I meant to say, when too much emphasis is placed on the competition, it no longer becomes about the music, it becomes about the trophy. It is not the peak of artistic expression, it is the pit of mechanised playing.

I hope I set some things straight.

[SaxPlayer1004]

good job on the comeback vick. we all know that a little much emphasis is placed on chairs ( was at the lions all state band this year got stuck in 2nd bari because of my horn. dont ask) and the first bari was playing a berg larsen on a yamaha 62, and me on my 18 year old abused conn with a yamaha 5c. guy said i could play better but he couldnt grade me higher because of the key problems on my horn. the kid in front of me was a senior. i a freshman and he thought he was bari sax god, and thought getting first chair was everything under the sun. i mean whatever, when it gets that bad in competition for chair ranking in bari sax especially ( 4 baris playing the same part in a 65 piece band. the guys told us all to bring baris instead of tenors, i brought both but they threw me on bari) then you know something is wrong. however without some competition among bands and other people is very healthy. you can see how your band or you as an individual rank against your competition to see how you, or your band needs to improve.

[vick]

SaxPlayer1004, you are 100% correct. I love to have duels and little play offs with other players in good fun, and you get lots of great new musical ideas. That is the way to compete, where the outcome doesn't matter.

Back in highschool, I was first chair, last chair, and everything in between on alto, tenor, and bari. Our sax section formed a new system that improved each of us an unbelievable amount. Instead of having set chairs, we would rotate once a week. We called it band socialism :D. Instead of playing only one part, we got to play five, and there was no animosity at all between us. We each became adept on three different horns and different ranges of the horns on different parts. If you can convince your section to do it, go for it. Beware, some directors might object (we boycotted chair tests in favor of our system and systematically recieved grade reductions, but it was worth it in my opinion.)

[SaxPlayer1004]

Sounds like it was worth it. that's actually a very good idea. never would have thought of that. the problem is in concert band im generally not sure what im going to play until a week or so before. back home i was the only tenor one of 2 altos only bari only tuba, euphonium, bass clarinet, and one of 4 Bb clarinets. so switched depending on my mood. but in my new school there is apparently a bigger sax section (havent started yet) and depending on the whole number of instrument things that system might work. ive heard that we dont have seat auditions and just play whatever we feel comfortable with and its generally understood who plays what. luckily for me i own alto tenor and bari so i wont have any problem, its the rest of the section that might run into trouble, i.e. not wanting to share horns.