french horn?!

[onesaxgirl5]

so i've been REALLY interested in playing the french horn lately and just today i finally got my band director to sign one out to me. so it's going to be me and this french horn for the next three weeks. I have a grade 3 book (meaning i have to do some fingering work before i can do anything in this book) but i'm EXTREMELY confused. the horn i'm playing with has a..."trigger" key? i think that's what they're called. I can press down the thumb key. so i think that's a trigger..err valve...or something. anyawys, the fingering chart in the back of this book has 2 different fingerings for each note...and i really don't know which one i'm supposed to use. apparently the top fingering is for an F horn and the bottom is for a Bb horn. i can use either if i play a double horn (what's a double horn?). and i "depress" the thumb valve to switch from the f side to the Bb side of the double horn. somebody please please help me. i am SO confused.

[sax_appeal]

You need to sit down with a french horn teacher or player and get them to give you a detailed of the tour, explaining everything and clearing up your questions.

[Kareeser]

My band director was stupefied to learn that I didn't know what a double horn was either.

At the risk of getting it wrong:

I think the thumb-switch is what makes it a double horn. It probably shifts the tone up/down a couple tones from Bb to F, or whatever.

I was thinking on going the French Horn route as well...

[Martin Williams]

I'm on the french horn route also, just got a pretty nice yamaha double for 200 bucks. The thumb trigger from what my french horn playing freinds has told me switches from the key of F to the key of G, and some horns have a SECOND trigger and that one goes to Bb. The Explanation for the Trigger fingerings I was given is that you can play the higher notes more easily by switching to the key of G and changing the fingerings.

I found in the messing around I have mostly done so far, that the technique while far from being the same, is fairly similar to my trumpet so the switch for me should be fun. Good luck those tryin this with me, and let us know how it all goes!

Martin

[SaxPlayer1004]

ok you all are way off. i am a horn doubler. here goes
on a standard french horn you can get a single Bb horn and a single F horn. F is standard, and lower pitched. on the F single horn there is a tuning slide option for Eb (to double alto sax and clarinet n stuff.)
on a standard double horn open is pitched in F, with the trigger its pitched in Bb. some horn players will have the strings reversed (the rotors work off of string not springs) if they play more high stuff. some of the top pro horns are called triple horns. these have a second trigger.
open, low F, 1st down= Bb, both down= high f. this aids in higher notes but makes the horn incredible heavy.
generally notes above the g on the staff are playing with the trigger down on a double horn. this keeps strain from the lips (as youve noticed, that is a SMALL mouthpiece :twisted: . ) newho just keep at it. you can teach yourself horn but make sure you have a tuner and find the right hand position in the bell. start with the "standard of excellence" book 1 for french horn. much easier

[Kareeser]

I'll keep that in mind, thanks, saxplayer1004! :)

My school only rented single french horns, so I am stuck trying to achieve the notes with a tiny mouthpiece and some very untrained lips.

My french horn playing collegues all say I have drawn the short string, saying that learning a single French Horn is much more difficult, but I look at it in that it forces me to strengthen my embouchure so that when the time comes that I DO get a double, I will have no trouble hitting all the high notes.

I hope I have a right philisophy, anyway.

[gary]

This is going to go down as a bit harsh but, man, I just don't understand why some people insist on wallowing around in the darkness (either in action or in giving non-informed advice) when it's so easy to flip the light switch on.

Get a teacher, read Philip Farkas' book "The Art of French Horn Playing".

You can't just grab a handful of keys and get the right notes to come out like you can on sax (relatively speaking of course). Horn is not overly complex, but it's construction, tuning, accuracy when playing and many other aspects are not for making wild guesses about. Do it right from the beginning or you will really delay your improvement considerably or get into bad habits which you will have to overcome later.

[retread]

And remember, if the valves prove too confusing and the mouthpiece too small, you can make a trombone sound like a French horn if you put your hand in the bell and hit a lot of wrong notes.

[Martin Williams]

Ive heard that one before, but I still like it! Very nice retread!

Martin

[Kareeser]

gary...
Don't take this the wrong way... but you only say that because you know half the story. I have lots of stuff going on in my life. I'm going into university next year, and I need all the marks I can get. I need all the time I have to devote to studying, and I can't have it eaten up by taking French Horn lessons. :)

I'm also not looking to become a performance musician, or to work in any field even remotely related to music. I'm also not required to sound good on any instrument. I honk on the sax, and I fart on the French Horn. It's all good, ;)

[gary]

No problem Kareeser. Here's my thoughts on giving advice on any forum. If we're just throwing out ideas and bouncing stuff off of one another, then a bit of opinion and speculation is par for the course.

But sometimes it is obvious someone asking a question doesn't have any experience behind their problem and I feel like those people should get only factual information and not speculation. It just isn't fair to them because, if they're inexperienced, they may not be able to weed out fact from fiction.

[ammo]

Hi! I play the french horn and the tenor sax. My first year of playing horn was horrible; I was doing all the wrong things, and that really delayed my playing. I would suggest going to a horn teacher once and having him run you through the basics of the horn (holding it, embouchure, hand position, etc.). This really helps.
The F/Bb horn, or double horn, is a horn which changes the horn so that it can play higher with less difficulty. How it goes by doing this is trivial, so read this carefully:
When you activate the thumb key, it changes the horn to a Bb instrument. I know what you may be thinking: "Wow, you mean I could play trumpet music?". No. If you looked at a trumpet fingering chart, maybe, but all horn fingering charts have the Bb fingerings transposed for you. Really, just get a good fingering chart with Bb fingerings. The only notes you really need to use with the thumb key are (starting from one octave below the horn's middle C): D, Eb, E in the Bass Clef octave, and everything above Treble Clef Ab.
As for breathing, the ideal breath fills up your entire diaphragm, expanding not only your lungs but also the space around them. To do this, imagine the breath for a yawn. Breathe from below your belly, filling up all the way to the lungs. This is hard and needs practice.
Embouchure is the toughest of all. You should see a teacher about this; it's too hard for me to explain.
Always keep a straight posture; do not let your back touch the back of your chair.
Your hand should form a position like that of your hand around your mouse, except for the cracks between your fingers should be firmly shut. It should be up the bell just enough so that your hand starts to cave in. Your wrist and thumb are the two things that hold the entire weight of the horn.
As for the left hand, curl your fingers! Your pinky should be in the round holder; the rest of the hand is very straight forward.
The horn's positioning is very strange, so here's a picture to help you:
http://www.huntington.edu/music/gallery/ph-moremusic/french-horn-gal-5.jpg
It depends on who you are; you can rest it on your leg or hover it above your leg, but it's better to hover, because that way less sound is absorbed.
One of the things a french horn player must do is be LOUD! When your instrument is pointing behind you, the audience will have difficulty hearing you (unless you're back up against a wall), so really play it loud!
One of the things my teacher taught me was to direct the sound not from my lips to the horn, but outside the horn, to 10 meters behind you! This helps with tone.
If you have any difficulties with the horn, please e-mail me at pufferjacket@hotmail.com and I'd be pleased to help.

P.S.: Dennis Brain is the best horn player ever; try to find some of his recordings!