Help with reeds

[undercoat]

My daughter isn't really a beginner, as she has been playing for around 3 years and is at (UK) Grade 4. She has got an exam next week and is panicking about it. She has terrible difficulties with her reeds. She uses a Selmer C* mouthpiece on a Conn Saxophone (an old one from the 50s - it has a woman engraved on it and I can't remember what it is called) and uses Vandoren 1.5 reeds.

At the moment she seems to be getting nasty squeaks from her reeds and struggles to find one in a box of 10 that works for her. Lots of puffing and blowing. She practises (almost) every day. Should she have a different strength of reed? Should she use a new reed and just keep persevering with it even though it seems hard work at first? Are Vandoren any good - is it the reed or my daughter?!

Any advice welcomed.

[flyerneil]

Try a fiber reed. The don't always give you the tonal variety, but you can quickly get a consistant sound. I use a fiber on my alto when I perform because I can eliminate sqeaks.


Also your daughter is young and it take quite a lot of mouth muscle to play well. It is similar to being an athelete you have to keep at it.

[DougR]

Where are you in the UK (roughly). If the trouble is "sudden onset" then there may be a mechanical issue with the sax, most likely a leak.
Take the sax to a good mechanic and have it checked over.

The week immediately before an exam is no time to consider a drastic change to mouthpiece or reed type/strength.

[undercoat]

We are in Birmingham and use MIR in Halesowen which has always been very good.

[DougR]

If MIR will do a "While you wait" it would be a good idea to have them check it over.
Are the squeaks happening on high notes or on low ones or just at random?
Sometimes a student will "tense up" while practising before an exam and this can itself cause trouble.
A 1.5 (which make?) is perhaps a little on the soft side, it might well be worth experimenting with a range of alternative reeds - but I would be nervous of doing the experiments before the exam.

[flyerneil]

The fact that you daughter can get one good reed out of ten, suggests a reed issue but it is alway good advice to have the horn checked out.

I recently purchased a variety of strength fibercell reeds knowing some of them I will never use, but it is the only way to be sure of which one works for me. You cannot rely on the ratings the reed manufacturers give you although the fibercell seem to be more consistant. I also have began to pretreat reeds by soaking them overnight. Something someone suggested.

By the way I returned to playing about 5 years ago after 15 years away and have gone through some of the same issues. I made the mistake of changing reeds the night before a performance. It was a disaster.

The moral of the story is change as little as possible untill you have time to work out the bugs.

[Dave Dolson]

undercoat: In my opinion, Vandoren is one the best reed brands. Still, many players can find only two or three good players out of a box of any cane reeds.

I too think that 1.5 may be a little weak, especially for the C* mouthpiece. I use open pieces with Vandoren Java #2 on alto and I shave the reeds down from there to make more reeds play well. The C* is way too closed for me. Most players use harder reeds on C* pieces.

And, I too don't think it is a good idea to put on a new reed just before some crucial performance, given that reeds must be broken in first - and if the new one put on is a dud like so many, then the player is fighting the reed rather than performing the music. Satisfaction with one's performance makes for a better performance.

As to synthetic reeds, they are not for everyone. They tend to run harder than cane at the various strengths - and even the synthtics are inconsistent (albeit better than cane in consitency - reed-ro-reed). Just today, I spent more than hour going through clarinet and soprano sax synthtic reeds and various mouthpieces to find the best combination. If your daughter arranges a synthetic set-up that works the first time, it would be unusual, in my view. If she finds something good, remember that after her embouchure tires she may have more difficulty making the synthtic reed play good when it played great at first. They can be very tiring if the player does not have a strong, experienced embouchure. DAVE

[Chris S]

Here's what I do with all my reeds (I suggest your daughter start doing this AFTER her exams, not before) when I buy a new box. I "condition" them, here's generally how the process works (for me):

When I start on a new reed, I only play it for ten or fifteen minutes the first time. This allows it 'learn' how to vibrate.

The second time I play it, I'll play it for another ten or fifteen minutes, and then I take it off the mouthpiece and put it on a piece of glass or a mirror (I use a mirror) and use some 400 grit sandpaper on both sides, while holding the reed firmly against the mirror. This removes any small imperfections in the surface of the cane.

Third time-I'll play it for about half an hour (sometimes longer) and then repeat the sandpaper process, except with 600 grit. After this, I do the same process again, with a sheet of notebook paper (the equivelant of really really fine sandpaper). After this is done, the reed should look almost shiny.

I've found that this helps my reeds be more consistant and also that it helps them last longer, as the friction from sandpapering also heats up the reed and causes the sugars in the cane to crystalize more.

Also keep in mind that this process will reduce the strength of the reed by about a half strength or so, so if your daughter does move up in the strength of her reeds, maybe a 2.5 or even a 3 might work well.

Hope your daughter does amazingly well on her exam. :D

Chris S

[Chris S]

Here's what I do with all my reeds (I suggest your daughter start doing this AFTER her exams, not before) when I buy a new box. I "condition" them, here's generally how the process works (for me):

When I start on a new reed, I only play it for ten or fifteen minutes the first time. This allows it 'learn' how to vibrate.

The second time I play it, I'll play it for another ten or fifteen minutes, and then I take it off the mouthpiece and put it on a piece of glass or a mirror (I use a mirror) and use some 400 grit sandpaper on both sides, while holding the reed firmly against the mirror. This removes any small imperfections in the surface of the cane.

Third time-I'll play it for about half an hour (sometimes longer) and then repeat the sandpaper process, except with 600 grit. After this, I do the same process again, with a sheet of notebook paper (the equivelant of really really fine sandpaper). After this is done, the reed should look almost shiny.

I've found that this helps my reeds be more consistant and also that it helps them last longer, as the friction from sandpapering also heats up the reed and causes the sugars in the cane to crystalize more.

Also keep in mind that this process will reduce the strength of the reed by about a half strength or so, so if your daughter does move up in the strength of her reeds, maybe a 2.5 or even a 3 might work well.

Hope your daughter does amazingly well on her exam. :D

Chris S

[undercoat]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their messages. My daughter has been reading through some of the other messages on the board and found lots of encouraging information about exams and how to relax. Her practising last night was so much better - no squeaks or panicking.

A brilliant web site - thank you very much!!

[jazzbluescat]

undercoat, Have your daughter try a #2&1/2 reed or even a #3, as thesonandall suggests. If I remember correctly the Selmer C# is a fairly closed mouthpiece, a small gap between the tip of the mpc and the reed.
A rule of thumb, although not written in stone, is: the smaller/narrower the tip opening, the harder the reed and the larger the tip opening, the softer the reed.

I'd say try the harder reed before you go running off spending "big" bucks on another mpc.

[steve]

It sounds like your daughter most likely has a Conn 6m... A fine pro-quality horn. ( I play one made in 1954). The C* is a good mouthpiece for students ( and pros...I recently heard a professor of saxophone music play a concert on his alto sax using a C*....he had a wonderful tone...so she shouldn't view the mouthpiece as just for students). So, in sum, she has good equipment.The squeeks may simply be that the reeds haven't been broken in properly...and/or she may be playing them before sufficient wetting...or the ligature isn't holding the reed flat on the mouthpiece. My suggestion is to try a #2 VanDoren . After 3 years of playing she should be able to play a 2...and it will improve her tone. She should also follow the reed break-in recommendations given by others on this board.