New Keilwerths vs. Old keilwerths

[CodyW]

Are there any differences in a SX90R Keilwerth made in 2003 vs. 1993? Was there a point in the serial numbers when keilwerth became "better" or more desirable. It seems like the newer horns have a reputation for being the best modern horns. Well does that include the ones from 10 years ago? And are there any serial charts around on the net? Thanks

[Proud2bAmerican]

Hey, i just bought a keilwerth sx90r black nickel from the early 90s (the old style..) and from what i heard ~> the ones from back then had a larger diameter bell, which led to a bigger, fuller, rounder sound supposedly. The 90s horns are supposedly more "sought after" horns because of this. My opinion of it is that when i play it, i can feel the sound going out of the sax, all around.. not just going straight out of the bell.. if that makes sense. i believe that there really is a noticable difference in that. but thats all i know about, as far as new vs old goes.
can't help you with the charts though. sorry
hope i helped :)

[CodyW]

Good Post. How can you tell the difference between the older style and newer style just by looking at pictures? And does anyone know when this period was when they changed between the "old" style and "new" style? Thanks

[CodyW]

oh, and if you wouldn't mind telling me, whats your horns serial number? Thanks

[CodyW]

ok.. here are some more questions to add on to my list. I'm interested in getting the Sx-90R on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2518850270&category=16 234

The serial number on this horn is 95XXX which dates it to 1990. Would this be a good deal, or for the same amount of money get a "newer" version used black nickel SX90 for around the same price. Are there any mechanical differences between this SX90R and a newer one that was made now?

[Proud2bAmerican]

the serial on my sax is 103387.. im not sure when it was made exactly, and im not sure that you could tell the differences in the saxes just by pictures. The sx90r on eBay looks like an awesome deal though. if it were me, i would spring for that. i absolutly love the sound of my keil. i paid 2660 for mine, and its even got some scratches (no dents) on it in various places. deep and rich truly describes the sound of it.
i can't help you with the other questions though.. sorry
hope i helped :)

[Proud2bAmerican]

~~i just looked up my serial # at http://www.musicgroup.com/instruments/Service/FrameSerialnumbers.htm
it said that my horn was made in 1995.~~
enJoy

[Kosma]

I play an sx90 #104082. I think it was made in '96. I got the deal of a lifetime on ebay. ($1375!) With a WJ flight case no less!
Anyway the only difference I've ever heard of is that they moved the low C tone hole starting at sn113xxx. I've played mine side by side with a newer one and couldn't tell a bit of difference. The differences that proud notes are news to me. I would pay $2000 for that horn but not $2500 considering you can get a brand new one for not much more than that. I don't consider either one better (old or new) btw. Happy shopping.

[SaxyAcoustician]

I do recall that Keilwerth's "black" horns from the late 80s and early 90s were black lacquered, not black nickel plated. You can tell in the ebay photos that it's got a different look than the "black" horns put out by Keilwerth today. From the photos the horn looks like it is black lacquered.

[CodyW]

Would the black lacquer be not good to have compared to nickel?

[Kosma]

My horn is gold lacquered. My friend's horn is black nickel plated. Like I said, I can't tell a difference in the sound. Not to say they all sound exactly alike, but according to many on this forum who have played a number of them, the differences are very small. Any one you get is going to be a great horn. There are no bad ones and no best ones. Mine plays just as great as any other one I've played.

[SteveZ]

i've never been part of the crowd that believes lacquer greatly affects the sonoric qualities of a horn. mouthpiece/reed combo is much more important, in my opinion. if you like the look of the black lacquer or whatever, get it. you'll take better care of it, and that'll make much more of a difference than the color of the horn.

The really old keilwerths, like the new king/toneking, sound awesome. don't overlook them. You can pick them up for much cheaper than modern ones, and the SOUND!!!

:o

[ehopper1]

SteveZ, you are right.
I play a Toneking Baritone Low A (#86585 from 1982).
Response, sound and intonation are really very good.

[T.S.]

Keilwerth might have been offering black laquered horns at one point (I've heard rumours of Black lacquered Coufs) However, I know for a fact that Couf Superba 1's as early as 1978 were offered in Black Nickel, which was called a "Black Gold" finish.
I have been told, but haven't been able to verify that the use of Black Nickel as an instrument plating material is a German invention.

[CodyW]

I talked to mike smith at keilwerth a few months back asking about finishes. He told me that keilwerth horns were NEVER black-lacquered. They have always been black nickel. Some of the older horns have a darker more "lacquered look" to them. He said this is due to enviromental issues. The matter that is used to blacken the nickel is apparently hazardous to the enviroment, so recent horns have a more "brassy" looking black nickel.