Is the guitar the only instrument around?

[Torachan]

Been looking through all the magazines on music since I became a musician :lol: Seems to me that the only instrument is the guitar. Almost every advertisment is for them as is every article :x Tuition is cheaper, the instruments cheaper and the opportunities seem greater. Not that I am planning on changing my sax for an axe :lol: Everyman and his dog(pants :) ) seems to play either the bass or the guitar. I guess the upside is that the sax player will be harder to come by in regards to Jazz so we will be in demand (even Dog Pants mate LAB :) )

Gotta go (I am at work and I think the boss wants me to actually do some :lol: )

[sax_appeal]

Torachan wrote:
(even Dog Pants mate LAB )

Lets hope so!!!

The simple fact is that people today want to be the next (list famous guitaritst here) they don't want to be the next Parker or Coltrane. This is probably because guitarists are featured a lot more in popular music and are in the media much more than saxophonists.

[MBushaw]

There is a feeling of power hitting a guitar chord through a Marshall stack into an arena. It is a mighty fist. Playing a sax in the same environment through the same amplification, and it is still a light touch, a soft finger on the soul.

[Torachan]

The guitar is certainly versatile. I am sure there is sense of power playing in front of a huge amp blowing away everyones eardrums (once those babies are damaged there is no coming back). I guess it depends on what you want. Funny when practicing I wish the sax was quieter. When I eventually get to play a song (does 4 bars of a French nursery ryhmm count?) I will want it to be louder.

My rant is that in the print media it seems that the guitar is the only instrument around. Sure there isn't going to be the mass market appeal for the Oboe or for the cow-bell but still......

Any thoughts people?

[hornstar]

Saxophone was the lead instrument of the jazz & R&B era, but by the 60's was eclipsed by electric guitar. Guitar is very versatile, relatively cheap to make and purchase, and not difficult to learn to play passably. Its portability and chordal qualities made it ideal for self-accompaniement. Many many people bought guitars from Sears Roebuck Catalog throughout the mid-1900's, which soon made it the most popular instrument in the world. By the 60's, it came to dominate popular music. Guitar players are a dime a dozen. By now, most people have heard everything a guitarist can do, so only those with exceptional technique or style impress anyone these days.
On the other hand, there are very few saxplayers out there, so there is much more demand than supply. People haven't heard enough sax to be familiar or jaded, so you can still wow them with above-average technique. A good to excellent player can do quite nicely with just a sax and a good mic, show up 20 minutes before showtime, and steal the show.

[Sigmund451]

Hornstar, I disagree. To play in a passable manner...unless you call just plain power chords passable is IMHO equally difficult on guitar...perhaps moreso. Being a former guitarist who made attempts at jazz I can tell you that the complexities of sounding good as a soloist are far more difficult than playing a resonably effective passage on sax. Im certainly not implying that sax is easy (at all) but I think it unfair to imply that guitar is a lesser instrument. I do think popular music has a lot to do with your complaint and I will agree that the majority of guitarists dont know what real playing is. Also the financial considerations are HUGE but not decisive. Unfortunately, American culture hasnt the patience to listen to judge real quality much of the time. Britney sure puts on a good show if you turn the volume off!

[kcp]

I think the popularity of the guitar may be explained by its accessibility. Don’t get me wrong, there are no instruments that are easier to play; to acquire skills require practice and dedication regardless what instrument you choose. However, some instruments are easier to learn than others. Mind you, the saxophone is one of them (learning the fingerings) however, when first learning saxophone it is rather very rare that one gets instant gratifying results (ex: to achieve a decent tone is something that beginners often struggle with) Guitar however, if the strings are in tune and that the player knows to finger a couple chords, the results are instantly gratifying.

Another difference might be the fact that guitar and such are “visual” meaning that you can see where you put your fingers on the frets. Soon enough you begin to see scale patterns and such. Also, ex.: if you want to play a 5th higher, it’s always two frets up and one string below from the root or same fret and one string above from the root foe the 5th down. And perhaps, too many aspiring guitarists learn these “short-cuts” rather than learning that the 5th of C is G, the 5th of D is A… etc, which in the long run is resulting into mechanical playing. A shame IMO because there is so much more that can be done with a guitar.

I think every sax player at one point or another has had frustrations playing along with “mechanical-playing” guitarist. Back in the days, I remember playing with guitarists who didn’t even know what key, what chord they were playing. One could ask them to play a chord and they’d play it. For example let’s say Gm - but ask them to play the single note G or Bb or D and they’d had no idea how to. Yet these note are what Gm is made of. And yet they could play by heart and integrally to perfection any Hendrix song you’d call… it always blew my mind.

I’m teaching myself to play bass for the past 2 years. Now I can play decent walking bass lines on nearly every jazz standard in Band in a Box. A lot of people are amazed at how quickly I learned to play that thing. But the truth is I could have never done it without 15 years or so of sax playing. Once you’ve assimilated scales and theory, learning to play any instrument is not a problem since all you have left to do is focus on the instrument.

[Spaz Johnson]

A twelve year old kid goes into Guitar Center, picks up a guitar, plugs it into an amp and hits a single note which is nearly indistinguishable from that same note played by Eric Claptrap or Jimi Headaches (or Kenny Burrell, etc!).

Try that on a tenor sax!

The entire subject of tone production and intonation is alien to guitar.

Want that guitar sound? Buy it!

Want that sax sound? Build it...a little bit each day!

In an age of instant gratification, what chance does an instrument that takes YEARS to just play badly have, when you could be a retired guitar GOD by then?

A really good guitar player is worth his weight in High Octane gasoline, but alas they are smothered out by the weed of mediocrity!

Not that there's a critical shortage of bad sax!

[Sigmund451]

Why are we comparing bad guitarists with good saxophone players? Seems a little biased. Try Pass and Burrell.

[Spaz Johnson]

The comparison was made to show WHY there are throngs of passable guitarists coming out of the woodwork but only a mere handful of "equally proficient" saxophonists, which I interpret as the subject of this thread!

[saxcurious]

I'm a guitar player (12+years) and also play saxophone (just recently).
I think any instrument has its complications and subtleties that are misunderstood by other instrumentalists but it is true that the guitar gets lots of media attention, lots of guitar players are around and lots of mediocre playing too. I wouldn't necesarily call all of them guitarists, many of them are showmen and the guitar is just another prop.
I play mostly classical guitar, but have delved a little into jazz, funk and some flamenco (not real good, but I had a really good teacher) and I can say the following (which might not pertain a lot to popular music)

Your complaints are true but it is perhaps a little bit unfair to blame the instrument for that. It started as a folk instrument and it will always lend itself to easy playing for accompainment but even in folk situations it can get really complicated, this is more notably so if you see the way it is used in non-anlgosaxon folkmusic. Point is that the limitation comes from the player and is not inherent to the guitar.

The time I spend on the tone production and control on sax translates to phrasing and dealing with the polyphony of the guitar (you don't always let all the strings vibrate, even when the vibration is sympathetic). Tonal differences are not as marked as in the sax but you still have to decide if you play close to the bridge or the fretboard, atack angle, proportion of flesh to fingernail, etc.

You do have to work on your tone, even when you can buy things (like strings, pickups, effects...mouthpieces, ligatures, reeds, etc) but maybe only guitarrists notice it. I haven't seen any guitarist that can't distinguish Carlos Santana from his brother Jorge and they both play with exactly the same setup.

That being said, I too wish there was more variety on popular music magazines. Also, playing sax is a really nice feeling for me since it lets me become intimate with music in a different way and I have found that playing more than one instrument enriches your musical horizon enormously.

[Sigmund451]

Spaz, I guess I just dont consider those guitarist as "passable". I dont blame the instrument. I place the blame or responsibility on uneducated ears and the low expectations of the listening public.

As for the publications, they print to make a profit. More guitarists...more public...more advertizement. Its unfortunate that its not about the music.

[saxcop]

I agree entirely with sax curious.
I play both sax and guitar. Because of that I could easily get work in many bands.
What makes a good guitar player is totally subjective. Just like sax, we tend to gravitate to our favorite style. I'm a hard rock guitar player. I'd venture to guess that the jazz sax players on this thread would not call that good music.
However I'd bet I could give most of them lessons in music theory. I can play six notes at a time. So its a bit harder to know the names of all those notes at any given moment. Big deal.
There is something about speed that is appealing with guitar. If you took the fastest sax player in the world, he couldnt touch a moderately fast guitar player for number of notes played in a measure.
I'm not trying to argue that speed makes a good solo. Its just fun.

[Durwin]

I reckon saxcurious has hit it on the nose. There is a tone for the guitar. If anyone thinks that jimi hendrix and yngwie malsteen and joe satriani all sound the same, some ear checking is in order. How hard you hit the strings (how hard you push the air through the mouth piece), what side of the pick or your fingers you hit the strings with (you scoop at the note, lip up, growl it), vibrato (vibrato), effects pedals (effects pedals :twisted: )... The only real differences are the frequency levels and the range of notes (and maybe the loudness but that depends on the system). Im not comparing the guitar to the sax, but showing sax players (who think that the guitar is an intrument where you just plug it in and whack it is what happens) the musicality of the guitar the way they know it on the sax.

[JL]

So who wants to be part of the masses? Go your own way and enjoy it!

[jazzbluescat]

:blah5: :blah5: :blah5: :sleepy2:

[kevvieg]

As mentioned, the guitar is great to haul out at a party and sing a round of "Kum By ah" or whatever. The saxophone, by it's non-chordal nature, isn't so effective for the campfire sing-along. Unless you're singing Giant Steps :)

[nick_the_sax]

ah the never ending debate.... gotta love it!

i play the tenor sax, ewi, bass guitar, drums and piano, and i can and will say that of all the people i have played with , and all the instruments i have had a burning desire to learn (its a bad habit!), i have had no desire to learn the guitar. i find that what you can play on the guitar, you could play on the bass and it would sound so much more impressive. of course i love spanish and classical guitar, but on the whole i find it tiresome, whiny and fiddly.

i should mention that this comes from experience. i do admire people like scofield, but on the whole i find that most people shouldnt say "i play guitar" as much as saying "i own a guitar". blues guitarists tend to use the same licks (about 10), rock guitarists tend to just play 16th notes the whole time. ive also found that the majority of guitarists (minus jazz) are rather closed minded about music, and if the band they are seeing doesnt have a guitar in it, it is jazz, or crap (which to them is probably the same thing). i also find them impossible to work with as they dont seem to understand the concept of listening. and as was said earlier in this post about the guitar being versatile.... it is, but the players generally are not. they dont seem to get the concept of different keys other than E, A and B.
my group consists of sax, bass, drums and vocals. i found that a guitar didnt really fit into what i was doing, and it just took away from the groove rather than bringing something into it. i have found myself only really enjoying playing with 2 guitarists ever.

sorry i just thought i'd have a little rant about this! of course all this is based on experience, so dont take it as gospel (not that i'd expect you to)!

dont worry im not a miserable old fart. just a bit frustrated!

[jazzbluescat]

........sorry i just thought i'd have a little rant about this! of course all this is based on experience, so dont take it as gospel (not that i'd expect you to)!

dont worry im not a miserable old fart. just a bit frustrated![/quote]

Hallelujah & amen. :D

[michaelbaird]

It is a great instrument. I wish I played one so I could write folk music. I have several CDs worth of original tunes in my head that I can't put to music because I don't play one. A good saxophone player with a developed altissimo range generates more excitement at a club than a guitar player. Trust me. I can get more women, and can play higher on my "Saxocaster" than they can on their stratocaster. Guitar players are a dime a dozen in Nashville.

[goodsax]

...Guitar players are a dime a dozen in Nashville.

And therein lies the primary reason guitars monopolize print media, there are more potential buyers - always follow the money. I doubt the Saxophone Journal publisher is going to be added to the Fortune 500 anytime soon.

[brassnaked]

I play both: archtop jazz guitar and saxophone. Which do I like better?
Neither...I LOVE them both, that's why I play them both.
When I show up somewhere new with both the sax and the guitar, it is the sax that gets the MOST attention...can't say for sure, but I would guess it's because of the very reason this thread started...the guitar is fairly commonplace...the sax, is NOT! Just my opinion...

[Vami]

Hi buddy
Profile ?
I'm from India and got surprised to see forum which had my Mind's quest in it.
I play Acoustic Guitar from past 6 years and just switched my instru to Saxophone, 7 months back.
Why did i Switch ?
I always had inclination for Guitar and Saxophone,so made a decision to finally switch + I wanted to get in to jazz as it's much wider Music term, i guess and believe ...
What's my Gear ?
I have a Conn Chu Alto with Otto Link HR,#6,JAVA #3 reeds and now i'm gettin Conn Wonder 1922 Tenor Sax with Morgan Excalibur #6EL, JAVA 2.5 reeds. So, i'll be more focussed on Sax now and bcos of this my Beautiful Guitars are suffering.
A Question & Thirst ?
Just wandering how it'll be to shift from Alto -> Tenor, As i'm inspired to take up Tenor by Stan Getz Songs and tone. I hope i'm quite justified in my opinion to shift, as i'm a mere beginner and making transition of Saxes so soon. What do u say about it ?
In the end, I hope to become Good Sax player one day like i'm on Guitars.

[electricninja]

I learned over the past year that older, attractive women tend to have an affinity for the sax that they don't have for the guitar. Let's just keep that a secret between us, shall we...?

[brickboo]

To play good music, which anyone desiring to improvise to me, is jazz, is hard to learn on any instrument. Even a comb and tissue paper. I bet a million bucks I can play the one fingered chord which ever one it is on the guitar and then learn the fifth chord to the one fingered chord (or is it an open no finger chord) in less than a week and strum to maybe several songs and woo the girls. Thus more guitar sales. This fact should end this argument.
You can't even play twinkle little star on a sax and make it sound decent in months.
My local store has one $700 sax in stock and 1000 guitars on the wall. Whoever has trouble understanding all of these statements made on this post must be smoking some bad stuff! Ha! Ha!

[Peterk]

One advantage for a sax player to ALSO know how to play guitar is the ability to lay down great backing tracks for your sax.

Guitar was my first instrument but I put it down about 15 years ago. Started teaching myself jazz chords about a month ago and I'm amazed at how good the sax and guitar sound together. I'm probably in the minority but I prefer the sound of guitar comping to piano comping now that I heard and played both.

My advice is to learn both, don't drop the sax completely.