Straight Baritone sax?

[LordXiminez]

I was talking to bandleader Vince Giordano a while back, asking him about all the cool old instruments that he had, and he mentioned that he had a straight baritone sax.

Has anyone ever seen one of these before? I'm just curious to see how amazingly huge they are, and how you would even be able to play one. (I can't imagine that they ever produced more that a couple of these instruments, because I can't imagine who would want to buy one! :wink: )

[retread]

They come with a free case of Swiss cough drops.

[Randall]

I have seen a very old pic of one and a guy standing up on a box to get the height to play it....so there defintely is ONE...maybe the same one your friend has?
I'd love to get in contact with your friend about this horn....
Can you give me a contact number or address?

[hornstar]

it would be awesome to have a baritone that was semi-curved, sort of like the Rampone & Cazzani "saxello," played almost horizontal on a stand.

[LordXiminez]

The guy's email is vgiordano@worldnet.att.net , you could try asking him there. If you've got a lot of questions though, he'll probably just give tell you his phone number and when a good time to call is.

All I remember him telling me about it is that he said it was the only one he had ever heard of in the world, and that he got it from the 80-year-old widow of some saxophonist. I forget what the original owner's name was. Benny something.

[Bill Mecca]

I think the picture Randall mentions was in a Dr. Paul Cohen article in Saxophone Journal, and if memory serves the guy playing it (standin on a small stool) was named Benny. It's in my stack of SJ's cluttering up the house. ;-) There was also a picture of a huge sax that reached to the second floor of the bldg. I think that was more a sign than an actual working horn.

[vick]

I thought Conn made that huge sax as an advertisement, so maybe we have a straight Conn bari as well.

[BbWally]

HI GUYS,
I SAW A STRAIGHT BASS SAX IN THE PARIS MUSIC MUSEUM LAST YEAR. ALSO A CONTRA CONTRA BASS THAT WAS ABOUT 14 FEET TALL. IT WAS OPERATED WHILE STANDING ON A LADDER AND PULLING LEVERS ATTACHED TO ROPES THAT CLOSED AND OPENED THE HOLE COVERS. (CANNOT CALL THEM PADS BECAUSE THEY WERE ALMOST A FOOT IN DIAMETER)
bBwALLY :D :USA:

[tensopbass]

I've been knocking around the idea of building a straight bari. Others have replaced the curved section on other horns, but a bari would need the neck moved down and tilted so the horn could lean at 45 degrees. I reckon its a goer, now where can I find a selection of rods and posts to bridge the gap?. I have a spare Amati low A that needs a rebuild. nicko[/img]

[vick]

you can probably comandeer posts from any similar junker horn. the rods you'll have to make yourselves or have someone do it.

[sax_appeal]

In a straight baritone saxophone, like the one tensopbass is contemplating building, I would be interested in knowing how the the keys would be placed so that they are not too far away for the player to operate comfortably. (the sax tensopbass is thinking of will stick out at 45 degrees, and that would mean quite a stretch to the keys.)

[tensopbass]

Sax appeal, good to see I got you thinking!. I plan to straighten the neck first. This would make the horn sit higher, with left hand near the left ear, right hand straight out, quite comfortable, really. The low A key would probably swap to the right thumb. What do you reckon?

[sax_appeal]

I see, with the change to the neck I imagine it would be quite feasible.

[tensopbass]

OK .I did it . Straight bari, saxello style, played sort of horizontal, should raise a few eyebrows. Randall has a pic of it on his Yahoo site
nicko

[Randall]

You really ought to see this! :!:

[tensopbass]

http://lovell.com.au/photos/view_album.php?set_albumName=album01

[Brendan Muse]

:shock: ... :yikes!:

Wow. That defies my ability to describe. Though I don't presume to speak for everyone, I, as a mortal folk, am unworthy to view the electrons that you have redistributed on my screen. :notworth:

[Gandalfe]

tensopbass/necko, assuming this is your project, how does the straight bari sound? Do you have a sound bite? :clock:

[HC]

Holy !!!!! :shock:
How does it play? How tall is it? Gonna sell it? :D
Where to find a case for this thing?

How do you actually play it?

[Martin Williams]

Yes I think we all want to know how it performs! Please, give us a reveiw; possibly even a sound clip or two. Congrats, you did a good job, the horn looks killer!

Martin Williams

[sax_appeal]

Wow. Thats incredible.

How do you hold a bari (especially a straight one) horizontally. Does it need to be supported by a custom stand?

[tensopbass]

The Story; Once upon atime I had an Amati bari. The case was weak and it fell out, damaging the bow the top crook and several keys. Everybody said it wasn't worth repairing. I have a warped sense of humour plus I have a straight alto that sounds awesome, so I figured I'd work out the formulea of the radii or the bends(try saying that on a date!) and turn the kitchen stove into a forge. I made wooden forms for the straight bits and bent sheet brass to fit. I cut out toneholes and soldered them in and then made new linkage,Idid the neck move first, offsetting the mouthpiece (as otherwise it's hard to see a chart) then tried it without the bell. It really barked, so I kept going. Low A was hard to link, so I made a rocking right thumbrest to operate it. It all looked too "straight"(pun!) so the red laquer sort of added a touch of humour. I replaced a few pads, the ones I set fire to, but it needs a few more to make it sing. It plays pretty much in tune(better than the original) and the sound is big and bright (bright, like a soprano) I have mounted the old bell brace near the lip and will make a "foot" to save the knocks.I find it easiest to stand to play and put the bell on a footstool. The horn is a little over six feet long. The case will probably be made from a lenght of 8" plastic pipe.
This is my first attempt and I've learnt a lot. It will be for sale, it's more a conversation piece that works rather than a competitor for a MkVI, then I'll build another with improvements (like low G, or LED's, or flames)
nicko.

[Martin Williams]

Since you mentioned ir would be for sale, I'll be first to ask the question that many people are going to have: how much?

Martin

[electricninja]

Ten,

That straight bari picture leaves me 150% amused. Thank you. :D

[sax_appeal]

LEDs? Thats an interesting innovation...

I definately like the idea of the flames, its the first thing that came to mind when I saw that it was red.

Whats next? A straight contrabass, Alpine Horn style?

[schnibs]

jesus h. christ thats a big mutha

[tensopbass]

It's over your side of the pond now. Now resides at http://lachesis.caltech.edu/jayeaston/galleries/sax_family/unusual_saxes_page/sax_php_unusual.html
I think I might do another one, maybe a King Super20 in blue pearl. I'd love to see a pic of the Beuscher if it can be found. nicko

[HC]

I remember the guy that made it posted about it on this forum a while back. I believe it was a beat-up Amanti bari that he made into a straight one.

[Doc Frazier]

staight C melody www.JandJWoodwinds.com

[Steve P]

tensopbass,
Well, I just got a DVD from Jay Easton, and he played this red beauty on it. Spectacular!!! great sound, and it just looks killer. On the DVD he even told the story about 'why red?' (its true... what person would ever paint a hot rod beige)!

Bravo

Steve P

[tapdancesavy]

I look at a straight bari sax once a week when I take sax lessons. My sax teacher, Jay Easton, has a straight bari sax...that is painted fire engine red. He revealed the sax at a University of Washington saxophone night and suprisingly enough didn't have to stand on a chair. There's a picture of it on his website: http://www.jayeaston.com/galleries/sax_family/unusual_saxes_page/sax_php_unusual.html
Scroll down, it's towards the bottom. He has the straight bari sax next to the curved and all of his straight saxes together, it's pretty cool.

[Steve P]

Yep! Thats the very horn being discussed here :)

Jay is a very nice guy. He visited UMN, where I go to school, last year. I had the pleasure of hanging around with him, and talking shop. We compared F-Mezzo's, which was fun. His was only 100 serial numbers away from mine (and his is the first one ever made). He is a great man, and a great player.

Steve P

[Randall]

That horn was made by one of our contributors- nicko....
Can't wait for the next one!

[tensopbass]

Soon, Randy, you just have to be patient. BTW, what colour would you like?
nicko

[Randall]

Hmm...depends on the flavor.
If it is a King Super 20, then I need silver plating?!:shock:

I don't know...I guess emerald green is prolly the best color. With paua pearls, of course.:D

[tensopbass]

It's the Zephyr Special......maybe emerald metalflake with Paua full pearls.
Found a guy that does "real flame" with an airbrush. Flames with emerald......maybe not! nicko

[Bootman]

Do it Green and Gold just to rub it into them about the Socceroos making it to the world Cup.

Nicko,
can you send me soem current pics please?

[Randall]

Nicko,
don't you DARE send Boot any! That horn is mine!:D :D :D :D

I too would like to see the pix.... ;)

I think I will order mine without the flames....
How long till she's done?

[tensopbass]

Do it Green and Gold just to rub it into them about the Socceroos making it to the world Cup.

Nicko,
can you send me soem current pics please?

Boot, long time, no hear. Green and gold ! Aussie,Aussie,Aussie! No pics yet, unless you want to see a pile of bits. I was planning to do three of them, all Zephyrs, so I could get a discount on the tube rolling. It's a long term thing, so don't expect much for about 6 months at least as there are several other things on the workbench.
Mine's going to be silver belled, and I'll have to talk to Sherry H about an upside down engraving. How about "Super Sonic"

[tensopbass]

And they'll all be Bb's. Can't have Jay cracking a darkie as his is the only low A

[VeryBari]

Anyone try the new automotive "ghost" enamels on a sax? I think that would be a much worthier application than my neighbor's obnoxious Mustang GT.... what say?

[tensopbass]

Cranked up the hacksaw again. The Zephyr is still a pile of bits, but I found another Amati, a Bb, that I could use the old patterns on. It is nearly a player, and I hope to have it ready for Summer School in January.
Didn't do the L.E.D.'s. but did turn all the lower toneholes so they are are in a nice neat straight line. Oh, and got rid of all those nasty keygaurds, no chance of hooking them on the pants!

[tensopbass]

found that pic of the Buescher

[jaysne]

All I remember him telling me about it is that he said it was the only one he had ever heard of in the world, and that he got it from the 80-year-old widow of some saxophonist. I forget what the original owner's name was. Benny something.


It was Benny Moten of the Benny Moten swing band. I remember that article, and how Dr. Cohen mused about the horn's whereabouts. So it sounds like the horn survived!

[BarrySachs]

found that pic of the Buescher


That is Vince Giordano with the straight baritone! I played thet horn in Vince's kitchen a few months ago.

Get thee to a repaiman!

[Martinman]

Get thee to a repaiman!

I don't think Hamlet played bari, sorry.;)

[tensopbass]

Here it is, all prettied up in "stealth" black.

[ssleb]

Beautiful.

[Randall]

nicko....Nicko....NICKO!!!!:shock:
What do you need?

[kavala]

Straight bari's were a gimmick in the old Vaudeville days.

[rhysonsax]

Saxophone Journal Volume 17, No. 5 of March/April 1993 had a Paul Cohen article on the Buescher straight baritone and it incorrectly identified the player as "Bennie Moton" [sic]. It asked readers "who is Bennie Moton ?".

And of course, Bennie Moten was a pianist and band-leader.

Saxophone Journal Vol. 18 No. 2 of September/October 1993 had the Paul Cohen article "Straight Talk on the Straight Baritone".

It included these words: "As it turns out, the straight baritone player in that column [the earlier sax journal article] was Benny Meroff, not Bennie Moten. Moten was a well-known band leader, known as the founder of the Kansas City style of swing jazz. Benny Meroff was a Vaudevillian showman and saxophonist, and is best thought of as a popular entertainer of the 1920s and 30s."

Saxpics has some brief information on Meroff's straight baritone and its rediscovery in his widow's upstairs bedroom.

http://www.saxpics.com/buescher/truetone/straight-bari.htm

Everything I've seen suggests that Meroff's Buescher baritone was a one-off.

All the best

Rhys

[tensopbass]

Randall, I'm reasonable sure there won't be another one of these, so if you are interested, I'll put you on top of the list.
I planned to play it at summer school (I even found a chart of "Dark flows the river") but the pads turned up late and studies took over. It did raise a few eyebrows wherever it went. The sound is very dark, no stuffy D's on this baby.
For playing I had to be content with "Gabriel's Oboe" on the slighly curved sop, and ""Elephant" from Carnival of the animals, on bass and massed clarinets.

[kavala]

Saxpics has some brief information on Meroff's straight baritone and its rediscovery in his widow's upstairs bedroom.


How many bedrooms did his widow have ?????