Question for Paulwl

[Roger Aldridge]

Hi Paul,

I recall that a number of months ago you were looking for a curved c-melody neck to use on your straight neck horn. If memory serves, I think that you found one. Could you please tell us again (on this Forum) how it worked out for you? Could you please go into some detail about your horn and the neck that you found?

I'm very interested in your experiment! I know that the Conn straight neck c-mels have a reputation for being better horns than the earlier model curved necks. But, I just can't relate to a straight neck c-melody. When I think of a c-melody the image that comes to mind is a curved neck horn. Thus, when I look at a straight neck c-mel there's something about it that seems downright unnatural to me. This probably reflects a character flaw on my part. :? Never the less, that's how I feel about it.

I'm quite happy with my c-melody. But, ya never know. One of these days I might suffer a GAS attack and want to see if a later model horn does anything for me. Thus, I'm curious about how using a curved neck worked for you on your horn. In particular, how's the intonation and the actual fit of the neck.

Thanks! Roger

[cmelodysax]

Roger,
can I just say that in my enthusiasm for C-Mels I've acquired more than a handful, and although the straight-neck Conn's have the most modern feel ( and are best for intonation/pitch ) I still end up playing the 'tenor neck' models with more enthusiasm.

I think it's (for me at least) mostly 'in the mind'. On alto I glide and soar, and on tenor I badger and push, - and as the C-Mel feels more like a tenor I need just that little something to push against. Whether the curved neck does produce that resistance, or makes it seem so is debateable, but there is a difference.

With the help of a little ptfe tape I've used a curved silver neck on a couple of laquer 'straight neck' Conns and was more than a little disappointed. Nice focussed tone, easy to play, but still felt like the horn was pulling me - not me pushing it. So what I think I'm saying is that the newer 'straight-neck' Conns seem to have a different feel (and sound) to the older horns, and that the 'tenor' neck doesn't seem to alter that a lot.

Playing position is subjective, the 'straight-neck' pushes the horn away - giving less of an intimate feel when improvising - but then some people find the closeness of 'tenor' neck C-Mels awkward. In a way it feels like driving a car with the steering wheel close up, or at arms length - different perspectives. But then so much for me is the need to feel that the horn is an extension of the body, and in that respect the closeness wins hands down.

I had hoped this would be the ideal compromise, 'tenor' neck with later (better?) model features like aux-front-F and improved intonation. But I'm still not convinced.

To add even more confusion, the two 'straight-necked' C-Mels each play quite differently in certain respects, maybe down to the different pad types, probably just in the build and/or the slight age difference. Possibly also down to the fact that one seems a re-lacquer, whereas the other has sharper engraving so is original.

Confused ? I am........ The quest for the perfect horn goes on - as I've said elsewhere, so far it's the Lyon & Healey (buescher stencil) closely followed by a Martin - both 'tenor' neck. Hrmmmm... (Regards, Alan)

P.S. Apologies for the intrusion.

[Roger Aldridge]

Alan,

Thank you for your comments and information! This is most helpful.

I don't think that it was an "accident" that I stumbled across the 1919 Conn c-melody that I ended up buying. Early model Conns are powerful horns. They were designed to WAIL. Since the c-melody has a natural tendency to have a softer sound, I've found that an early model Conn can kick it up a notch or two. The other thing that helped me was to have Steve Goodson work on my horn. He made a MAJOR improvement to the horn's intonation. He said that it's now close to the intonation on his c-melody -- a Conn Artist model. Thus, I'm able to have the power of an early model Conn and the better intonation of a later model. :D

[paulwl]

Hey, my very own question...sorry I wasn't here earlier! :D

Anyway, Roger, to reiterate...I finally did find my curved neck (lacquered too, just as I wanted). It came as part of an uncased "Masterbilt Saxophone Shop" stencil Conn, a cheapie early 20s model with unpearled keys, purchased on eBay for $80.

After putting on a new neck cork and octave key pad, I promptly set about fitting it to "The Last C Melody Ever Made," my 1936 Naked Lady 8M. As I'd suspected, there were no apparent changes to the basic Conn bore in all that time. The curved neck had a tiny bit of pulldown that causes it to fit a little too high at the front of the tenon, but it doesn't wobble and is a tight fit.

But the proof of the pudding is in the playing. The first thing I noticed was that the typical Conn "bite" was a bit muted with the curved neck. Not unexpected - we all know bending the tube takes out some higher frequencies, at least to the player. The new neck made that floating, fluid C melody darkness just a little easier to find in the tonal palette - especially in the 2nd register. (Listen to Trumbauer's solo on "I'm Comin' Virginia" if you want to know just what I mean.)

Intonationally and response-wise, there was some improvement as well. Although the late Conns are not updates of the old models, they apparently did do a little acoustical work - my 8M plays with more bite and a little more even tuning across the registers than my 1922 Conn (as Roger notes). Subtle differences, to be sure. But there are some lingering problems, like the tendency to go progressively sharper below low D, and (like all opposing bell key saxes) the risk of "motorboating" on low B if the regulation is not just right. Both of these, I have found, are less troublesome if you don't try for quite such a full tone on the low end. (This may be due to acoustic idionsyncrasies in the Conn bow design - there's a Buescherite kick about Conns: "the bore is so big they need a wine cork in the bell") :? The good news is that I find these low-end characteristics more manageable with the curved neck than the straight. I can reach for these notes and have confidence that they will be more "there" without my having to baby them.

Now to the difficulties of the curved neck. These are not major, and all to do with playing position. A C melody with a straight neck hangs low on the body, like a wimp tenor. With the curved neck the C is about 3" higher on the player. The feel requires some getting used to (and on Conns at least, a shorter neck strap, especially if you wear a tie on the gig). The big bugaboo for me is that the left elbow, held at a tighter angle, has a tendency to cramp if not shaken out every so often. Even here, though, there is an advantage - the left hand keys feel much more intimate and "under the hand." With the straight neck I sometimes found them too spaced out. (Maybe Conn should have tweeked the design a bit around 1920 when the straight tuner neck came in - especially the Bb-bis spread, the weak point of the whole keyboard. Someday I plan to replace that with a bigger pearl cup.)

In conclusion, this experiment was a qualified success. (Your mileage, as always, may vary...) I do still occasionally use the straight neck on my Cs, but I think I prefer the curved over all now. I've got my eye out for a silver neck for the '22 C, although I probably will have to forego having a gold octave lever. You can't always get what you want...:D

[Roger Aldridge]

Paul,

It sounds like you've got a really nice set up. It's really interesting to hear about your experiences with both styles of necks. This is exactly what I was wanting to learn about! Thanks!!!

I know what you mean about needing a shorter neckstrap with the curved neck horn. I had problems with the modern straps I tried at first. In fact, there were times when I went back to the old strap that came with the horn! But, it wasn't comfortable. The neck strap I finally found that works for my c-mel is The Crescent.

What mouthpiece are you using? It's possible that some of the problems you described with the low register could be mouthpiece related.

Thanks again for your information. This is good stuff!