learning the piccolo

[romeo]

I'd like to learn how to play the piccolo, but read somewhere that you should never start playing the piccolo without first learning how to play the flute. Any opinions on this?

By the way, I'm an alto sax player, and I don't play any of the flute family instruments.

[bpimentel]

I can't think of any reason to specifically prohibit learning piccolo first, except that the likelihood seems high of getting frustrated and never really learning flute OR piccolo. Flute is much easier for most people.

On the other hand, I can't think of a single good reason to do it that way. Any flute teacher will insist that you start with flute (and you're getting a teacher, right? :wink: ). If you intend to be a doubler, there will be few opportunities to play piccolo without also being required to play flute.

Good luck. Piccolo is a tough one for me, but being willing to try gets me a surprising number of gigs. A lot of doublers are scared of it.

Bret

[Benny]

The main advantage of tackling flute first is that the piccolo has less leeway for error and this is reduced by gaining strong, consolidated skills on the flute first. Even then, the piccolo is a different beast and requires much concentrated work on its on. My flute teacher told me that your basic level on the piccolo will always be dictated by your basic level on the flute.
Brett is right, many doublers shy away from picc and once people know you play it, you'll always get asked .
Good luck!

[Whatasaxman]

I have to agree that flute would be better to start on. I personally have owned(and then sold) several picollos. I personally "just say no" to picollo

[sax_appeal]

You should learn the flute first 'cos its better' (says my sister- the family flute expert).

It really depends on what type of music you want to play. Are you looking to play a doubling instrument for marching band?

[Bootman]

Don't do it, this is an evil instrument and should not be inflicted on the ears of others or let alone yourself. :lol:

[Benny]

Bootman is right, Picc is an evil instrument, but if you're serious about being a serious doubler and want to do the really good gigs, then piccolo is a must.
Sometimes we have to do things we hate. I'm going through that with the oboe right now.

[bruce bailey]

Oboe is a four letter word.

[sax_appeal]

Are there any other four letter words which go with oboe?

[Bootman]

Yes...
Duck, Lame, Ouch, Aggh. to name but a few...

[sebastian17]

:twisted: Piccolo is indeed harder than flute, even harder than sop sax. But it is not impossible. My favourite instrument is pic! I am in love with it!

[Bootman]

Go and speak to your Doctor :shock: , perhaps there is pill to fix this condition! :lol:

[DanY]

I read somewhere that Hubert Laws started on Piccolo, and then learnt flute. :shock:

[Benny]

Hubert Laws started on alto sax and started playing flute because there was shortage in his high school band.

[sax_appeal]

The advantage of going straight to picollo is that you don't have to put up with the flute. Also, if you don't learn the flute first you'll be able to concentrate on the picollo more specifically.

[Ol Danl]

I've played flute most of my life, but never had any real interest in the piccolo. I think the thought of something that shrill going off that close to my head had something to do with it. Maybe you should get some ear plugs. Of course, the instrument does carry well, so I've seen these period brass bands with one picc. and you could hear the little dude over all the brass. You could also learn that cool part from "Reach Out, I'll Be There." I saw this guy in a street band at Disney World playing sax and then pulled this wooden picc. out of his pocket in the middle of this Latin tune. That was kinda cool. Again, he was outside, where the shrillness was a plus. I like whistles and even recorders that play in more or less the same range, but unless there is a real use for the shrillness, its just kind of unpleasant. Just my puny opinion.

[sebastian17]

It's the first time I heard people carrying wooden piccolo outdoors, ain't he afraid of wood cracking?

When this 'shrillness' played fast, it becomes sweet and cute, like birds singing.

Beethoven used quite a lot in his 9th Sym, and goes as high as Hi-A, maybe he was only able to hear its shrill. :lol:

[Gordon (NZ)]

A really good piccolo player makes it sound sweet - even has control of the volume in the third octave! One of my customers proves it when she comes to pick up her piccolo after servicing.

An instrument should not really be judged by what an amateur does with it. Most musicians who sometimes play piccolo have not really put a lot of time into learning to make it sweet, especially when shrill is often what is required of it.

[Bootman]

Gordon,
It's a joke mate, dont take everything so seriously.

All Piccolo's should be banned as a service to the hearing of all fellow musicians!

:lol:

[Gordon (NZ)]

I wasn't responding to anything you wrote.

[sebastian17]

Gordon, thanks for reminding us that. I am working hard making the 3rd octave G and above notes sound sweet. I have no problem sweetening the piccolo except Hi G and above - so hard!!!

[Bootman]

Gordon,
Cool. Just trying to inject a little bit of life into the Forum. Bandstands are usually places of great merriment and teasing, not places for the thin skinned and easily offended.

[Gordon (NZ)]

I really don't know what you are getting at, Bootman, nor what you are trying to say. Is it now that somebody is "thin skinned and easily offended" ? That is definitely not me. Or are you halucinating that this is a band stand?

If you look back, you will find that this is a perfectly sensible thread, interrupted by interjections, which I chose to ignore, and which in real life would probably be seen as quite rude. I have a perfectly good sense of humour, but I ignored that in this thread simply because I am busy, and you seem to be making an issue of it.

You've lost me! Have another Fosters. :-)

[Bootman]

Just stirring you up!
Don't take it seriously!

No one drinks Fosters here, it's not considered good enough! :lol:

All Piccolo's should be banned...

[Gordon (NZ)]

I'd reserve the banning for Eb clarinets that try to playi in unison with the piccolos, and arrangers who write such arrangements.

And, of course, sopranino saxes.

By comparison, even a good amateur is sweet on the piccolo.

[sebastian17]

<<Shrillness - vindicate for piccolo>>

In a famous orchestration textbook - 'Creative Orchestration' George Mckey(1963), Mckay labeled piccolo ranges as:

D1 to G1 - weak
A1 to G2 - soft
A2 to F3 - clear
G3 to B3b - shrill (only 4 notes G3, G3#, A3 and B3b)

(B3 and top C were not mentioned, maybe not used by Orchestra at all)

'The flute book' - Nancy Toff(1996) put it:

Piccolo's outstanding characteristics is its extreme variety of tone color within its high register which extends the instrumental range in the orchestra.

However, the middle register contains the most frequently scored notes......Broadminded orchestrators set the optimum range from g1 to g3, while narrow constructionists limit it to d2 to e3 area. (hey, that is not shrill!!)

Lowest octave is relatively soft and weak in projection (not used in orchestra), but in chamber works, it is not only audible but a useful alternative tone color to the comparable flute register.

[Bootman]

Add - Tin Whistles, Fifes, Bag Pipes, Accordians and Banjos to the list of banned instruments.

Eb Sop Clarinet, Sopranino Sax, Soprillo and Descant Recorders have also been added.

[Gordon (NZ)]

And all too often, the human voice.

[michaelbaird]

I would play the flute first and then go to the piccolo. I think it is fun to play; what's wrong with tin wistles? I can get 4 octaves out of one. Recorders are fun also. The oboe and bassoon are the biggest pains in the a-s.

[Jack W.]

Hey now, what's going on in here? I seem to have come into this discussion too late to defend the piccolo from all these people dissing it! 8)

But seriously folks, I have to agree with Gordon that the piccolo can sound very sweet once you get used to it. (Perhaps that's the operative phrase.) The shrillness is lessened somewhat with a plastic or wood piccolo. Especially wood. Although I've noticed that Haynes silver piccs sound surprisingly full and sweet for a metal picc, at least surprising to me. The old ones go for a fraction of the new price, it is the wood Haynes piccs that everyone wants. Myself included (if I had the money of course!), though I use a Yamaha 62 picc, which (just my opinion!) is the best bang for the buck out there in its price range.

As for shrillness, most of the higher woodwinds and brasswinds can sound shrill when it starts to get above the staff to any degree. I will admit that piccolo takes the prize in this area though. To learn to play with a full tone in all registers, mitigate the shrillness as much as possible (except when it's needed for the shock effect), and keep the vibrato nice and controlled, is the tricky part for pretty much all of us who play it at all regularly.

The crowning audacity for me in terms of piccolo parts (at least in show music, which I mostly play) is in the overture of the musical "Crazy For You", which in the Reed 1 book is pretty much evenly split amongst flute, piccolo, and soprano sax. The last chord (Eb major) has the piccolo on Bb3 (happily with the lead trumpet on his written high C), with a fermata over it and (inexplicably) ff. The only choices I found were to put it down an octave, or play it pp. The latter method proved to be a very cool effect, but earplugs are still recommended, particularly in the right ear! :o

I am told that all of this pales if one tries to play Shostakovich or Prokofiev piccolo parts.... :shock:

I also have to give a hearty "amen" to Gordon's comment about trying to match intonation on piccolo with an Eb clarinet. It is one of the most treacherous scenarios in orchestral woodwind playing. The only thing that might be worse is trying to match intonation between two piccolos!

Q: How do you get two flutes to play in tune?
A: Shoot one of them!
Q: Two piccolos?
A: Shoot both of them!

Keep blowing that death stick, except where it is banned by local or regional code! :D

[Bootman]

Yes, pic can sound sweet..........if you're deaf. :lol: :lol:

[Jack W.]

Low blow, Bootman (pun of course intended). As punishment, one piccolo Bb3 has been sent Down Under, and for you ff of course rather than pp. Oops, did I shatter the good crystal? :D

I forgot to mention that I seem to recall MojoBari saying he managed a D4 on his piccolo. I don't know what the fingering is myself, since this note requires the low C roller on flute, so I will have to defer to him on that point. My YPC-62 does play B3 and C3 fairly well; I might have managed C#3 once but H wasn't sure and didn't really care for some reason. :P

[Bootman]

hey...... :shock: ........hey.........I cant hear anything anymore because the Picollo has deafened me...... :roll:

[lowguy]

I began to play piccolo in a salsa band ; then I learned flute. But piccolo is maybe not a good thing......
I'll play it tomorrow with a big-band in a "latinized" Monk project ; that's great and a lot of fun !

[Bootman]

Is there a Conundrum here........Lowguy and Picollo......(only teasing, dont take it seriously).... :roll:

[lowguy]

Hi Bootman
Piccolo is not serious :-)

[Bootman]

Absolutely...I understand you were lured to the darkside of the Force momentarily.........We will send the salvation pack.........one Bari sax altissimo virtouso pill enclosed in the next email...... :wink:

[lowguy]

The Dark side of the Force ? Well, that's not wure....
tomorrow I'll play piccolo in "Blue Monk" (a bitonal part, like at the end of the bolero), but too BARITONE SAX, BASSOON and CONTRABASS CLARINET :-) :-)
And next week 2nd trombone in a "swing" big-band
and past week I played contrabassoon in a symphony orchestra
:-)
In fact I don't like piccolo, but it's quiet fun on stage with the contra clarinet !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bootman]

Dark side of the force (Star Wars quote.........think Darth Vader)...

The Bitonal part in Blue Monk sounds like fun. Who has doen the arrangement?

[Tully]

Definitely start with flute. I've found that the piccolo embouchure is much smaller and more finicky (read: more difficult), which makes it very hard and frustrating to start with. Even though flute is my main instrument, and I play piccolo pretty well, it still isn't esxactly my favorite to play. Also, those of you who claim to hate piccolo are probably basing that opinion on high school marching band, or at least on some very amateur, perhaps musically-inappropriate playing. Do yourself a favor, and listen to it in a professional symphony orchestra.

[CashSax]

Or how about some of those GREAT Latin Piccolllisti..HOLY COW@#$%..!!!
Hey seriously, I'm growin' kinda fond of my little Tasmanian Death Whistle..I know Bootman is gotta be kidding I think hehe secretly LOVES his Piccolloo :oops: ..

[CashSax]

OK I open my big mouth, some mother#$%#$%&^*, swiped my Picc off the stand last nite..maybe he was trying to tell me something..dammit..now I gotta go buy another. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Michael Ward]

What a drag.. I really like pic and have always enjoyed playing it. It has to be well sung to be beautiful. I've had a student SP Armstrong which was very good and a 62 Yami. Now investigating new pics, great little horn.

[michaelbaird]

Cash Sax, sorry to hear your piccolo got ripped off. That was low down.

[CashSax]

Yeah guys, that kinda crap really stings...