Are Bundys' the Rodney Dangerfields' of saxophones?

[newking70]

They dont get no respect?

[Randall]

Take my wife...please!
I picked up an epoxy finished Bundy alto in a pawn shop just for sh*ts and giggles and blew it....
It roared.
It had the "floating" pads too.
I was taken aback.

When I was in high school I played one of the epoxy finished tenors. It was the definition of POS horn. I was awful too.

The difference? I am a better player now than then and condition of the horn and adjustment.
The hs horn was a dog, the pawn shop horn had just been serviced, evidently.

I later purchased a vintage Bundy tenor (see my group...and it's for sale!! :wink: ) and have been so impressed with this horn too. The vintage Bundy's are superlative when in top playing condition.

Why would I sell? If you know what I have in my stable of tenors you wouldn't ask.

And yes Newk, they don't get no respect (intentional double neg, grammarians).

[rsclosson]

Which Bundys are the best? I have heard many good things about the Keilwerth Bundy specials. Are there any others that stand out?

[Sigmund451]

The old bundys are reputed to be pretty good intermediate horns for their day which likely makes them better than most of todays intermediate instruments. Of course the problem is the reputation and turning them over after putting money into them. Same with Dolnets and a numerous other good instruments that dont get respect because of the dominance of the big boys. Remember when you couldnt sell an SML for the price of an overhaul? SMWHO?

[Pete]

"rsclosson"? You're not Rick from AZ, by chance, are you?

Anyhow, there's some confusion regarding the various Bundy models made over the years ...

* The first Bundy horn was unquestionably the "Geo. M. Bundy" labeled horn produced by Conn in the 1920's, a stencil of their New Wonder model horns. Mr. Bundy was (depending on the iinfo you look at) a shop foreman for Conn and/or the first president of Selmer (USA), so this horn was made to "honor" him. By most accounts, it wasn't a bad stencil, a la the Selmer New York models.

* The "second generation" and "third generation" Bundy horns were built by Buescher, working as the "Selmer (USA)" of the time, but didn't gain that title until Selmer bought them in the 1960's. Again, these horns are stencils of Buescher models, but they're somewhat redesigned, at least with different sheet metal, and the "second generation" horns are fairly elaborately engraved.

The "second generation" body style is also essentially the same body style for the Selmer Padless horn ...

* The Bundy Special and Bundy horns marked "made in Germany" and have the odd plastic clothes-guard, were made by Keilwerth and are stencils of their New King and New King Special models. The "Special" had rolled tone holes. Both are EXCELLENT horns. They're not quite professional models, but they're pretty good. I had a non-rolled-tone-hole bari that kicked some serious S80 butt in the tone department ...

* Bundys produced after 1963 or so are made by Selmer (USA) in the former Buescher plant. They're really watered down versions of the proud Aristocrat model -- indeed, the Aristocrat 200 looks identical to the Bundy ("one") and you can see the gradual devolution from the Big B models to the Aristocrat 200, if you look at a chart of all these horns, side-by-side.

These are also true student model horns. The Signet was the intermediate model -- an OK horn, but nothing really special.

The Bundy II is an update of the "one". A bit better keywork. Made on somewhat different tooling, I'd think.

* The modern Bundy had a couple name changes: they called it the Selmer USA for awhile (same as the old horns, different engraving, played about the same), then they switched to "300" (I think) and then they switched to the current "1244" and seriously updated the keywork.

I have a quite neglected webpage on these horns at http://www.saxpics.com/selmer/bundy.htm

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Anyhow, I've been working on a book project regarding sax values. I can say with some confidence that the Bundy/Bundy II alto generally sells in the sub-$250 US range for an excellent-condition horn. Even the Keilwerth-made models don't fetch a much higher price, which is a shame for sellers and REALLY good news for buyers.

Oh. Forgive me, Sigmund, for helping raise SML prices :).

[hornimus]

Pete, what is it about the Bundy Specials that prevents you from labeling them 'professional' horns? And compared to, say, other vintage like Aristos, Committees, 6/10Ms, Zephyrs/S20s?

[bruce bailey]

I heard that G. Bundy was a clarinetist with the Boston Sym Orch and got hooked up with Selmer to import horns. I agree with saxpics history.

[kcp]

-- indeed, the Aristocrat 200 looks identical to the Bundy ("one") and you can see the...

Pete, remember those pictures of an Aristocrat 200 that I sent you? The horn it was pictured next to was a BundyII (not a "one") both were exactly indentical.

[Pinnman]

Pete, a really informative post, thanks.

I am not quite sure, though, when the Selmer name started to appear on Bundys; are you saying this was post '63? Also, which model did Buescher stencil from - was it the TT?

I am also interested in knowing the genesis of the Signet, if you are able to enlighten me.

Finally, withot wishing to sour my contribution. I have always been of the opinion that Aristocrat 200 = Bundy 2 (and Selmer 300, etc.). I have also seen the name "Bundy by Selmer" which looked to be a later name variant of the Bundy2.

[super20dan]

this summer i aquired a bundy special bari w/rolled holes.it roars!. i am tru with conn12m,s forever!