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Sax on the Web Forum Archive / Selmer saxes / MK VI OVERHAUL, HELP ME!!

Mark
User ID: 8681043 Jun 23rd 10:59 PM
I have a 111XXX mark vi and I need to get it fixed up. Everything is original. I want it to play and feel like a Mark VI.. should I keep the original resonators? What kind of pads should I get? What is "swedging"? What is "leveling of tone holes"? Basically, I want to know what I need to have it be like a brand new mark vi.

Steve Cars
User ID: 2386864 Jun 23rd 11:17 PM
Tell us where you are and maybe someone can point you in the right direction...

Mark
User ID: 8681043 Jun 23rd 11:48 PM
I'm in Chicago. What kind of resos did the mark vi come with from factory?

saxdaddy@napbirt.org
User ID: 9725373 Jun 24th 1:44 AM
Plastic domed. But why only original? There alot of really good resos on the market. The reso techs are really nice, and they are screw in resos, so you can use them on your next pad job. Match this up w/some premium pads, like Martin Chanu's and you have a really nice setup.

MBushaw
User ID: 9586293 Jun 24th 4:06 PM
Saxdaddy- early VI's had flat metal, like the BA and SA(SBA).

saxdaddy@napbirt.org
User ID: 9725373 Jun 24th 11:21 PM
I thought they were using plastic by then. That is what a 64 or 65 horn?

lesax
User ID: 1251404 Jun 25th 6:27 AM
The selmer spec sheet I have from 1961 says that plastic(nylon) resos were the factory spec resos at that time. Early sixes had metal with a slight dome to them. I prefer either Nylon or the new Reso-tech brass domed for Selmers. If you want to add a little extra kick have Darren oversize them for you. Another pad that is relatively new is the Prestini NS 275. The NS stands for Non-Stick. These pads are waterproofed but do not have Varnish on top of that like so many other pads do. Sometimes they use a little too much Varnish and it never quite dries and gets very sticky especially in hot weather. The NS 275 will still stick if you get enough gunk on them, but are the best I have found so far. They also have a little harder felt than the other 275s, and a slightly thicker skin. As far as leveling tone holes goes, the tone holes on most (if not all!) saxes are not completely level across the top, but can be leveled by working inside the horn (like a dent repair) This makes it easier to seat the pad and helps the pad to retain its seat longer because the pad does not have to be warped into place. The pad cups must also be leveled, but this is a little easier.

Bari Martin
User ID: 1781064 Jun 25th 6:37 AM
Keep the original (or replacement) brown nylon tone-boosters. Swedging is the process of taking out the end play in stack keys and/or linkage. As Lesax says, tone hole leveling is usually needed to some extent, but I would not expect to have to do more than do some very light clean-up with a leveling block on a sax that has not been relacquered or damaged. This means light sanding or filing across the sealing ring to remove crud and/or high spots left on at the factory. It is improper to use filing to level a tone hole that has been 'dished' by buffing or otherwise damaged. That's where the 'lifting' process Lesax referred to comes into play.

MBushaw
User ID: 9607473 Jun 25th 11:26 AM
Saxdaddy- sorry, I was thinking 'all' VI's, not just the serial range mentioned. I need to read more carefully.

saxdaddy@napbirt.org
User ID: 9725373 Jun 26th 1:05 AM
Just make sure that the resos leave some space like 1/8th inch from the O.D. of the reso, to the I.D. of the tone hole. Now when it comes to leveling tone hole there has to be thought than just level the tone hole from under, or remove material from the top. Try first to determine the cause of the uneven tone hole. Is the bodystraight, or has the main tone column been bent? Have any nearby posts bent taken a hit or bump, are there any dents nearby. You don't want to alter the tone column, just as much as you don't want to remove material from the tone hole. The solution is to reverse any damage that the instrument may have encountered, and then follow up with dressing the tone hole if needed. To just say dress the top, or bring it up from inside, without first diagnosing the situation is to just go through a routine, and lets face it, a MkVI deserves better.

Lesax
User ID: 1251404 Jun 26th 6:35 AM
Saxdaddy is right. Before leveling the tone hole the horn must be dent free and have a straight tube. Selmers( especially the tenors) do bend along the tube after a number of years of steady playing, even without being dropped or whacked. rolled tone hole Conns seem to hold up better in this respect, because the rolled hole adds some extra strength to what is normally a weak area.

toot suite
User ID: 0582664 Jun 30th 4:28 PM
I believe the domed nylon and domed metal (though they domed so slightly they appear flat at first glance) resonators don't have a clear delineation in production. I have seen overlap in early mk vi horns that are almost certainly original. Additionally, and flamers bite your tongue, I think people often exaggerate the differences between resonators. Perhaps some horns respond more dramatically than others to different sorts of boosters, but except for no resonators at one extreme.....and huge silver or crinkled metal resos at the other...it's not as dramatic as some would have you believe. I think a good reed probably makes a bigger difference, and matching a mouthpiece definitely makes a bigger difference. You can't go wrong with the metal or nylon ...though I think nylon becomes the norm as the mk vi establishes itself (i.e. past the short bow altos). As for quality overhauls....you can't go wrong with Randy Jones at Tenor Madness, who is in the midwest (Iowa, I believe), though I'm sure native Chicagoans out there must know other locals they can refer you to. Good luck!

Mark User ID: 8681043	Jun 23rd 10:59 PM I have a 111XXX mark vi and I need to get it fixed up. Everything is original. I want it to play and feel like a Mark VI.. should I keep the original resonators? What kind of pads should I get? What is "swedging"? What is "leveling of tone holes"? Basically, I want to know what I need to have it be like a brand new mark vi.
Steve Cars User ID: 2386864	Jun 23rd 11:17 PM Tell us where you are and maybe someone can point you in the right direction...
Mark User ID: 8681043	Jun 23rd 11:48 PM I'm in Chicago. What kind of resos did the mark vi come with from factory?
saxdaddy@napbirt.org User ID: 9725373	Jun 24th 1:44 AM Plastic domed. But why only original? There alot of really good resos on the market. The reso techs are really nice, and they are screw in resos, so you can use them on your next pad job. Match this up w/some premium pads, like Martin Chanu's and you have a really nice setup.
MBushaw User ID: 9586293	Jun 24th 4:06 PM Saxdaddy- early VI's had flat metal, like the BA and SA(SBA).
saxdaddy@napbirt.org User ID: 9725373	Jun 24th 11:21 PM I thought they were using plastic by then. That is what a 64 or 65 horn?
lesax User ID: 1251404	Jun 25th 6:27 AM The selmer spec sheet I have from 1961 says that plastic(nylon) resos were the factory spec resos at that time. Early sixes had metal with a slight dome to them. I prefer either Nylon or the new Reso-tech brass domed for Selmers. If you want to add a little extra kick have Darren oversize them for you. Another pad that is relatively new is the Prestini NS 275. The NS stands for Non-Stick. These pads are waterproofed but do not have Varnish on top of that like so many other pads do. Sometimes they use a little too much Varnish and it never quite dries and gets very sticky especially in hot weather. The NS 275 will still stick if you get enough gunk on them, but are the best I have found so far. They also have a little harder felt than the other 275s, and a slightly thicker skin. As far as leveling tone holes goes, the tone holes on most (if not all!) saxes are not completely level across the top, but can be leveled by working inside the horn (like a dent repair) This makes it easier to seat the pad and helps the pad to retain its seat longer because the pad does not have to be warped into place. The pad cups must also be leveled, but this is a little easier.
Bari Martin User ID: 1781064	Jun 25th 6:37 AM Keep the original (or replacement) brown nylon tone-boosters. Swedging is the process of taking out the end play in stack keys and/or linkage. As Lesax says, tone hole leveling is usually needed to some extent, but I would not expect to have to do more than do some very light clean-up with a leveling block on a sax that has not been relacquered or damaged. This means light sanding or filing across the sealing ring to remove crud and/or high spots left on at the factory. It is improper to use filing to level a tone hole that has been 'dished' by buffing or otherwise damaged. That's where the 'lifting' process Lesax referred to comes into play.
MBushaw User ID: 9607473	Jun 25th 11:26 AM Saxdaddy- sorry, I was thinking 'all' VI's, not just the serial range mentioned. I need to read more carefully.
saxdaddy@napbirt.org User ID: 9725373	Jun 26th 1:05 AM Just make sure that the resos leave some space like 1/8th inch from the O.D. of the reso, to the I.D. of the tone hole. Now when it comes to leveling tone hole there has to be thought than just level the tone hole from under, or remove material from the top. Try first to determine the cause of the uneven tone hole. Is the bodystraight, or has the main tone column been bent? Have any nearby posts bent taken a hit or bump, are there any dents nearby. You don't want to alter the tone column, just as much as you don't want to remove material from the tone hole. The solution is to reverse any damage that the instrument may have encountered, and then follow up with dressing the tone hole if needed. To just say dress the top, or bring it up from inside, without first diagnosing the situation is to just go through a routine, and lets face it, a MkVI deserves better.
Lesax User ID: 1251404	Jun 26th 6:35 AM Saxdaddy is right. Before leveling the tone hole the horn must be dent free and have a straight tube. Selmers( especially the tenors) do bend along the tube after a number of years of steady playing, even without being dropped or whacked. rolled tone hole Conns seem to hold up better in this respect, because the rolled hole adds some extra strength to what is normally a weak area.
toot suite User ID: 0582664	Jun 30th 4:28 PM I believe the domed nylon and domed metal (though they domed so slightly they appear flat at first glance) resonators don't have a clear delineation in production. I have seen overlap in early mk vi horns that are almost certainly original. Additionally, and flamers bite your tongue, I think people often exaggerate the differences between resonators. Perhaps some horns respond more dramatically than others to different sorts of boosters, but except for no resonators at one extreme.....and huge silver or crinkled metal resos at the other...it's not as dramatic as some would have you believe. I think a good reed probably makes a bigger difference, and matching a mouthpiece definitely makes a bigger difference. You can't go wrong with the metal or nylon ...though I think nylon becomes the norm as the mk vi establishes itself (i.e. past the short bow altos). As for quality overhauls....you can't go wrong with Randy Jones at Tenor Madness, who is in the midwest (Iowa, I believe), though I'm sure native Chicagoans out there must know other locals they can refer you to. Good luck!